Chris hndrsn

Mol_PMB, You may like to have a look at the US Seatrain Lines ships acquired by the US War Shipping Administration for the USN (two as aircraft transports), most likely used primarily from the West Coast to Hawaii, and the remaining ships to the US Army. Not true RoRo ships in the modern sense, or in the sense of train ferries of the time, as they used a RoRo cradle to lift rolling stock out of the holds. I would suggest these ships were instrumental in moving locomotives and armour to the UK, whilst I imagine most wagons went as KDK's (Knock Down Kits) by freighters. The SS Seatrain Texas famously sailed (mostly) independently delivering 250 Sherman tanks to Egypt in time for the Battle of El Alamein. It is likely that Seatrain Texas and her sister ships serving the USATC were frequent visitors to Manchester and Liverpool for the remainder of the war. Cheers, Chris Henderson

WRT the "pillbox" ammunition wagons, there is a factory image out there in the wild of one prior to handover to the Ministry of Munitions for the War Office. I have a copy of the image I will try to dig out over the weekend. From memory, they are a five-plank wagon with, as previously mentioned, the appearance of a lime wagon, except with multiple hinged lids. Being an ex-soldier, unlike Small Arms Ammunition and artillery shells, I would suggest they were primarily used for dangerous commodities, not necessarily packaged for inclement weather exposure. This may include TNT, barrels of gunpowder, detonating chord, detonators and so forth, with the important note that detonators and initiating compounds must be packaged and transported separately from explosives.

Thanks Gordon and Andy. I posted this in the general European area because I was after both French and Belgian, as well as some German, which the old wagons-europa site covered. Andy thank you for the advice on the US Army TP wagons, though I don't intend modelling US Army, just the BEF, therefore the WD wagons that were later transferred to France and Belgium are of interest to me. I have a copy of the French railway history circle special magazine on the TP wagons, as well as the issue that has some, though not all of the WD wagons. I have some information and models of the 20 ton van, very generously supplied by one of the RMWeb members, that later became the Car ferry vans. I do have to note that I have forgotten the gents name, but I still have his details with the models, which are packed at the moment as I have a long period of illness. Cheers, Chris

Does anyone know whether the http://www.wagons-europe.fr website was recreated at another web address? Or know of a site that has drawings and so on of French and Belgium rolling stock for all eras. I am keen to find find schematic drawings of French rail wagons, in particular the WD series supplied to France at the end of WW1? Cheers, Chris

Simon, I hope you don't mind me suggesting four models ideas that continuing on your from WW1 60cms theme: The standard gauge Manning-Wardle armoured petrol tractor versions 1 and 2. A handful of each served on both the Western Front and Palestine/Egypt campaigns. Only a couple of photo's on the web, but apparently Statford Barn has the plans for one of the versions and that may be enough with available photos to do both. I certainly would buy one of each in 00. The British Army's Hawthorn-Leslie 2'6" gauge 0-4-0 petrol mechanical tractor, used in the Egypt/Palestine campaign. The Avonside 2'6" gauge 0-4-0 petrol mechanical tractor, also used in Egypt. The 2'6" gauge army wagons that were included with the loco's sent to Egypt in 1915. This thread on the Great War Forum may help a little with some background https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/213428-can-a-ww1-railway-anorak-id-these/#comment-2110672 cheers, Chris Henderson

France had lost a significant part of it industrial capacity wth the loss of Lille and the surrounding region and were busy with their own work. Indeed it had been agreed by late 1917(?) that many wagons built for the ROD would be built to European standards, so that they could be sold to France and Belgium post war. I have a large panorama from the AWM.gov.au of a forward ROD yard in a valley which seems to be all metal sheeted vans and metal sheeted LSWR style road vans that post war were taken over by NORD and subsequently SNCF. I assume that these particular Well Wagons were part of this arrangement. Many wagons were sent over to France as multiple knock down kits running on one of the chassis in that batch, I have posted an image of such a kit a few years ago. But for these, if they were out of gauge for the UK, then they were probably built on contract in Canada or the US.

As a follow up, the WD wagon type that the A7V was carried on is modelled by AMF87 from France, price is out of my league for a scale model example to run around with an A7V on it. More importantly a 4mm scale A7V on a 3.5mm scale wagon would look a bit odd and I would like to model one in 1/76. In April 2022 an image of one modified for container use in revenue service was posted to a French enthusiasts website. https://www.patrimoine-ferroviaire.fr/angleterre-wd-plat-surbaisse-long-xxxx-sncf-tergnier-2018/. How many 100 year plus wagons run around the UK? Would anyone be able to point me to book/s, or websites, of French railway wagons with scale wagon drawings from 1910 onwards? Cheers, Chris

That was being polite to dog excrement!

Thank you, looking at the 1963 Playcraft wagons they were modelled on the "25 ton Weltrol" wagons (they are labelled "Weltrol"). If the French Army wagons are marked as 35.2 Metric Tonnes they may well be ones that were handed over by the ROD in 1919/20. Would you happen to know of a French enthusiast website that would have images of wagons at Ateliers de Flandres workshops or French Army depots?

No. I wasn't asking whether they were "brought" to the UK. As they were ordered by the Ministry of Munitions I imagine they were constructed in the UK. Most, like the Parrot (Warflat style) wagons would have been shipped to France for erection, though some may have been kept in the UK, if only to move the disassembled chassis and bogie kits to the port/ferries. I suspect the MofM contract was cancelled in Nov 1918 at the same time the Mk VIII International tank was cancelled. I realise the likelihood of these well wagons being in common UK use was low and therefore probably never made as a scale model, I was hoping someone may have seen/know of the drawings and their location where I could get a copy. As an aside, much like the WW1 Parrot wagon was the forebear of the WW2 Warflat, I would suggest the well wagon in the 1918 photograph was the forebear of the WW2 Warwell. Cheers, Chris

During WW1 the Ministry of Munitions began the acquisition of well wagons* for the ROD, to augment the Parrot (Warflat) wagons that were designed and constructed from 1917. I imagine these well wagons were intended for the Mark V* and the Mark VI tank which was cancelled in December 1917. At least a few examples of a 34 ton capacity well wagons made it to France as they were used for the movement of the German A7V surrendered by the Germans after the Armistice and were photographed loaded with A7V's named "Schnuck" and "Hagen" at the Tank Corps HQ repair shop at Erin, probably in December 1918. Noting the intended Mark VIII Victory/International heavy tank was 38 ton and ten (10) metres long, by late 1918 I imagine stronger and longer examples of the of these well wagons were also in production. Would any member know of an OO Gauge version of these wagon? Or schematic drawings of the wagons? I imagine REE in France has produced a HO Scale version of it in the past, as many former ROD and USArmy TP wagons were gifted/sold to France and Belgium railways, many soldering on in France until at least the 1970's. Cheers, Chris hndrsn * If any one knows the telegraph reporting code of the well wagon, as unlike the Parrot/warflat's, it is not stencilled on the wagon, that would be great as well

Actually fake tanks were first used in WW1.https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C261602 and https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C970884

As noted previously that it is a fishing vessel, looking at the open hatch in the stern, the ladder, two different sets of coloured line floats, and the closed double hatch on the starboard side, I would hypothesize that it is a “long line” fishing boat with internal winches for the the line.

Or carrots!

You obviously didn’t see the Australian genital origami stage act “Puppetry of the #####”

This reminds me of a Lynx body wash ad here in Oz about ten years ago:

It's one of those new fang dangled wireless thingamajigs, wachamacallem today radio's

Such as: https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/hyper-velocity-projectile-hvp https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/long-range-precision-guidance-kit https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/excalibur--tell-the-round-where-to-go-ndash-and-it-goes-there

Rocket assisted projectiles for land artillery have been around for a while

And would burn the White House lawns!

That road train from here in Oz, really should be on a train. To minimise unnecessary handling, ideally those trailers should ride in drive-on drive-off pocket wagons like those used on some European routes. As we run freight trains 1800m and longer across the Nullabor, you cut out all the prime movers/drivers used getting loads like this across the country.

From what I see non the news internationally, in Britain you must be close to this stage: https://fb.watch/8rZdWSXkrg/

I don't dispute that Google buys aerial imagery, which can be very expensive. I would suggest they limit it to specific places of interest to a wide range of consumers, where higher resolution images are desirable, such as the Eiffel Tower, palaces and to cities and places with deep "canyons" areas in shadow to satellites, where additional imagery is needed to provide better data for mapping. You can also tell from the distorted angles on many of the tall building shadows and the view of the building, that the image is an oblique view from a satellite, a very very long way from the direct overhead track of the satellite, rather than the more narrow oblique view that an aircraft flying at commercial aircraft level could capture. More importantly the images on Google Maps are not updated that often and are certainly not updated for Heathrow during COVID-19. Check out the image of Heathrow Airport on Maps, very few planes, and then check the various historical image available on Google Earth Pro, with the latest 17 Apr 2021 displayed image, lots of planes, on Earth Pro from Maxar Technologies.

Ore like a corvette

Those sort of travelators and shopping trolleys are common here in Australia. I assure you once the wheels drop into the grooves on the walkway, they stop. Though if you get really impatient you can push them. At the end of the travelator the teeth which fit into the groove of the walkway bring the trolley out smoothly, but it is funny seeing people on their phones not realising their trolley will be rolling.