wagonman

The old Peco 'Wonderful' Wagons attempted something similar, from memory. Only problem was it didn't work – too much friction, not enough weight.

I totally agree – except they were built by the Swansea Wagon Co. Slip of the finger?

As Gloucester were building over 60 of the things it may well have made sense for them to cast the axleboxes themselves using patterns sent from Gorton. I am not familiar enough with the conventions of such transactions to be more definitive.

I concede Bill's point about the axleboxes, and probably other fittings, which must have been supplied by Gorton. The most obvious connection is Sam Fay. He was, up to 1899, Secretary and General Manager of the MSWJR upon whose line Edward(e)s' stable was located. It is conceivable that the men knew each other, though at the time of the horse box order Fay was back at Nine Elms. He took up his position as General Manager of the GCR in 1902. The timeline is not quite perfect!

Another example is the Highland Castles built for the French Ouest.

That's my thinking too. They had just built a batch of these horse boxes for the GCR so had the drawings (and jigs?) to hand, so it was the obvious choice of design when they received the order from Edwards. And as you say, no involvement of the GCR at all. Richard

The Gloucester Agendas, notoriously terse, merely state "11 December 1901; new cash; George Edwards one horse box" which rather implies they built it though I suppose they could have been acting as intermediaries. It also implies ownership by Edwards rather than mere hire. The railway companies were forbidden from building locomotives for sale to other railways/operators – did this also apply to rolling stock? One assumes it did due to the lack of any known examples – a bit of a black swan argument. The MSWJR did own three horseboxes described as "ex-privately owned" – this one was not included in that trio. Richard

What Norfolk folk call "a lazy wind" – it doesn't go round you, it goes through you. I expect there are countless local variations. Still it does seem apposite standing on our beach looking north as there's nothing between you and the North Pole except the odd oil rig and what's left of the Polar icecap. But no snow.

That frequently happens – but in this case the modern business is called P H Futter. Futter is not an unusual name in that part of Norfolk: there are seven 'Futters' in the Great Yarmouth area phone book.

Henry's father, also Henry, started the business in the late 1870s. Henry Junior had a brother Arthur but he became a general carter. When he died in 1924, the executors of his estate were his widow and two sons, none of them in the coal business. The mystery deepens...

Possibly though Henry only had one son (sixth time lucky), Henry James, and he became a bus engineer, later working for LT at Hatfield. He had no children living at home in the 1939 register and when he died in 1954 his widow was the administrator of his estate.

All those new parts would have made a nonsense of Churchward's drive for maximum standardisation. Collett was less concerned about that of course.

Possibly the fact that the old stagers were ... old. The operating department might have wanted a more modern replacement, though perhaps one that could run on yellow routes, unlike the Manor. They got it with the Ivatt class 2 moguls, but that was after nationalisation.

Erm... Rowland Brotherhood was based in Chippenham, not Cheltenham!

Henry Futter died in 1934. His eldest daughter Mary Ann Elizabeth was recorded in the 1911 as a 'clerk to coal merchant' though whether she inherited the business I don't know. She married an electrician named George Kettle and settled in Norwich. If P H Futter is a direct descendant (s)he must have skipped a generation.