thegreenhowards

That’s good to hear. Plenty of excuses to run two of my favourite classes. Any chance of sharing any of the photos?

It's always good to se an O2 Gilbert. Even if such a sighting was rather rare on the prototype by 1958. I certainly run some on Gresley Jn., although I tend to choose one of my earlier period trains for it. Andy

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one. I would prefer to see what information the author has managed to ascertain rather than wait for perfection which will probably never arrive. There were a few helpful comments on this when I posted my work in progress on 'Coulsdon Works' including yours, particularly about getting the brass much cleaner before I painted. I think the painting has come up well, so I'm grateful for the help. I couldn't incorporate all of the advice however - for example, Jonathan W told me that the slats would probably have been boarded over on the inside when it stopped being a fish van. As the roof was soldered on, it wasn't very practical to incorporate that advice, but it will be if and when I build the second kit which I have in my stash. Sorry for the tardy response, I have had a busy weekend watching the mightly 'R's smash Preston and then at the Peterborough show. Andy

Agreed. Easily my favourite layout at the show. I stayed for a full sequence.... and then a bit longer for a second view of the full Mark 1 kitchen car which looked great. I have one of those in my roundtuit pile! I loved the idea of showing three time periods.

Extra brownie points because it wasn’t finished when you saw it and had no letters or numbers.

Tony, great photos. I must get hold of the mag. I’m going to Peterborough tomorrow, so will try and track you down for a coffee. Andy

I agree with peer review. In fact that's one thing this thread is very good at. All I'm saying is that if at the end of the peer review you don't have a definitive answer, give your best guess and qualify it as such.

Changing the Subject somewhat, here are some pictures of my latest completed project. It’s a GCR bogie fish van built from a WSM kit. It was a bit of a struggle as it was made from thick brass which needed to be laminated together. It certainly tested my soldering iron’s power! Only a few of these made it through to nationalisation, and I believe they were relegated to parcels traffic by that stage. So I’ve finished it in LNER livery without fish branding and will use it in a mixed van train. I had to guess a bit (tut tut!) so I’ve probably made some mistakes. Any comments welcome. Andy

Morning Andrew, That was a very early morning for you! I admire your perfectionism and it certainly shines through in your models, but I think that this is a classic case of 'the best being the enemy of the good'. Railway modellers are often not good at compromise (I've had similar exchanges with Steve Banks!) but I feel that some educated guess work can help others make further strides in identifying the full data which we would all like - rather like the responses to Tony's original post have done. So let's take the B1 at Peterborough as an example. A little research has identified the date and the sun position tells us that it's morning, but more research is unlikely to ever identify exactly what train it was on, so we have two choices of types of caption: 1. The 'Wright' approach: B1, 61079 approaching Peterborough from the south on mixed rake of stock on Saturday 19th July 1958. Notably the rake includes a pressure-ventilated FK (the third car), ex-one of the post-War 'Scotsman' sets. It also includes three BR Mk.1s, plus a Thompson CK, as well as Gresley stock, including a late-build all-door TK. The loco is shedded at Immingham, so it's reasonable to assume that it's probably a morning summer Saturday train from the southern end of the GN line to the East Lincs line (probably Skegness or Cleethorpes). Prior to the introduction of the Brits, B1s had these expresses. 2. The perfectionist approach: B1, 61079 approaches an unknown location hauling an unknown train on an unknown date. The loco was built in September 1946 and withdrawn in June 1962. I'm exaggerating for effect and with a little effort some of the data could be established beyond reasonable doubt as this exchange proves. But one sees too many captions like the second one and I, for one, know which I prefer. I can then use my own judgement to fill in any gaps as I see fit. Regards Andy

I beg to differ. Even if you're not sure, I think it's worth including a best guess provided that it's labelled as such. That may set someone else on the path to discovering what the train/ location/ etc. really is. The problem comes when guesses are stated as definitive facts and then repeated. That's definitely not 'Sir's' style.

It's also slightly more glossy than the Hornby version which I think looks better. How it will look in a complete train I'm not yet sure. But once I've got my Yorkshire Pullman up and running I will post an image on my layout thread, Gresley Jn

Interesting comment and I know what you mean; it does look a bit strange sometimes. I think it's a bit like the debate on weather or not. Personally, I try to replicate pictures that I find, so that means mixed liveries sometimes and weathering. You will be pleased to know that not all of Gresley Junction's trains are in mixed liveries!

Next up in the sequence is the 1321 King's Cross-Royston. This is formed of a typical late '50s outer suburban set formed SLO, BS, CL, SLO, CL, BS. Four mark ones and in this case the rearmost CL, BS formed of Thompson stock as often happened. The B1, 61394, is a renumbered and weathered Bachmann model. The front SLO and mark 1 CL are formed of Mousa sides on a Bachmann donor while the other SLO is created directly from a Bachmann mark 1 SO with the toilet windows filled in and a repaint. Here is a short video of the train arriving at Gresley Jn. This shows the train off nicely, but highlights how much work there is to do on the station.

At the same time as I purchased one of the Precision labels for my Car 107 conversion above, I bought some others and I have already fitted them. So my Car 166 with Matchboard has become Car 167. Car 166 was never an East Coast car as far as I'm aware, whereas Car 167 did have spells on the East Coast. According to Ford, it was never plated, so stayed with matchboard sides until withdrawal. I do have a Hornby Car 167, but it's in plated format, so not much good (it's gone in my spares pool for now). I think the Prescision labels give a good rendition of the matchboard effect, rather more subtle than Hornby's, and it's a very easy way to change identity - about 30 mins in front of the telly for this conversion. I also changed my 'Adrian' into 'Iolanthe' - a wonderful name and an East Coast stalwart during the '50s. This time, It's a plated finish as Iolanthe was plated 'by 1959' (Ford vol 2 page 37). The Precision label gives a nice representation of the joins in the plates which are missing on Hornby's finish. As my donor was in post 1960 livery without the flourishes on the top panel (directly above the crests), I replaced the top panel as well with the Precision labels.

Some progress on the Pullman car. I've tackled the roof which had to be changed from an all steel version to the wooden version which had traditional rain strips and vents in different places. So I had to remove all of the detail except for a couple of large round vents. Then it needed a good sanding back and several coats of filler primer. I have now added the revised detail as seen in the photo below. For the painting, I've decided to repaint the cream completely. This is made much easier by using the Precision labels for the umber as I won't have to mask anything off. The labels have now arrived, so hopefully more progress soon. Andy

Hi Andy, I've just discovered this thread when I noticed you were following Gresley Jn! I didn't realise you'd started up on RMWeb; it's great to see the layout here. The photos look great and I particularly enjoyed the Gatex. That brings back some good memories. Andy

Second move of the sequence is the 0915 York/ 0845 Hull to King's Cross. This was a 12 coach mark 1 formation and although not one of the ECML 'glamour' trains, it was one of few trains which included a Thompson kitchen car in the formation, so I wanted to model it. It had the added bonus of being part of the regular turn for the W1. Here is the train lead by the W1, 60700 which is based on a Hornby model and uses Graeme King's excellent resin parts to provide the longer cab and cartezi axle. Two thirds of the train comprises fairly boring mark 1s, but the catering core is interesting, being formed of FO,RK,SO (all Thompson) and then Mark 1 prototype FO E3083 which had a strange window arrangement and seats in twos which swivelled according to the direction of travel. It has been preserved on the Severn Valley Railway. Here is the FO/RK. Both are formed of Southern Pride sides on an old Bachmann donor. And here is the SO/FO pair. Again both are Southern Pride sides; the SO on a Bachmann donor and the prototype FO on an old Triang Hornby Mark 1. And finally here is a link to a video of the train.

Thanks for the link to the video which I've just sat down to watch. Some nice shots, but as Clieve says, it would have been nice to see more of the formations. Having said that there are some interesting views of what I think are Stanier period three coaches at c.7 mins and then again at 20:20. Does anyone have any thought on what service they may have been on?

I think there are 25 on the train; 21 Hornby (renumbered to avoid duplicates), 2 Parkside and 2 Wrenn (repainted).

I've spoken to Andy at Isinglass about 3D printing the Gresley 66 footers and he was quite positive about the idea. If that comes off, I'm sure I could knock one or two up for you.

Gilbert, It's good to see the sleepers again. I hope they're coping with your curves OK now? Andy

We've now run round the whole layout, so I think it's time for the stars of the show - the trains. I don't have a set sequence, but I have a list of trains and try to operate them in rough order through the day. I start the sequence in the middle of the day and run through to the evening to allow me to run a few sleeper trains, for which I have a particular passion. The trains come from anytime between 1948 and the early '60s, but concentrated on the late '50s. I will post a picture of each train and will point out interesting vehicles as appropriate. For some I will also post a video as I think model railways are best when moving. The passenger trains have been compiled from the carriage working notices (thanks to Robert Carroll) and sometimes photos, but the goods and parcels trains are more guesswork as I don't have the equivalent goods working documents. Any constructive criticism would be welcome. The first train is the down Aberdeen fish empties. I believe that this left Kings Cross about midday. V2 60850 on down Aberdeen fish empties. The train is mainly formed of Hornby blue spot fish wagons all renumbered and weathered. There are also a couple of Parkside kits and a couple of old Wrenn vans. The Hornby vans are all coupled using the Roco system in NEM pockets which IMHO gives a big improvement over tension locks and allows quite close coupling as below. Hopefully this shows the Roco coupling to good advantage. and here is a video of the train as it rounds the reverse curve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsXPBbKS9-U

OK. Now we have the final stretch of the layout. Here we have a general view down the layout with the K1 and the oil tanks crossing from the down slow into the freight loop across the second line of slips. The signalbox on the far side is the LCUT large signal box, but as yet is in a half built state. The coaling stage is Metcalfe and is more GW in outline (shock horror!) but Hatfield had one a little like this in LNER days so I don't feel it's too out of place - it does need some detailing though! This is the diesel depot section with the coaling stage and turntable behind. Here is the tunnel mouth leading into the fiddle yard with A3 'Minoru' emerging on the down fast. The tunnel section is based on the Gasworks tunnel exit from King's Cross with red brick on the far side, yellow in the middle and blue on the nearest section just like at King's Cross. The canal section should be set further back with a road in between, but I had to foreshorten it. The lock is there, but should be a few feet to the left. As you can see only two of the tunnel mouths have track properly laid. Initially I intended that the final tunnel mouth would be boarded up, but I'm now considering extending platform 6 through to the fiddle yard to allow a branch shuttle to enter the station from the south. The loose track emerging from the tunnel mouth is the beginning of this extension. It will probably only be single track, as to put a double track in would mean moving a roof joist! The track plan would change from this: To this: The revision would allow the branch shuttle to run in from the fiddle yard, run round, and return. It would also allow up goods trains to recess and run round for shunting operations. I would assume that there is a connection back onto the up slow beyond the tunnel, so that goods trains can exit via the new connection. I might also add a connection from platform 5, but at the moment, I'm inclined to keep it simpler, as the above seems to offer everything I need operationally. Any views would be welcome. Andy

Now we come onto the station area which is the least developed part of the layout, so if you're offended by half built scenery then you'd better skip over this section! This corner has the station entrance on a gentle (c.5 feet) radius curve. From the back, we have the bay platform (1), then the down slow (platform 2), down fast (no platform), up fast (Platform 3), platform 4, which acts as a terminating platform for the inner suburban train from Moorgate and the beginning of the freight loop and platform 5 (up slow). The rest of the platforms are shown below. In the foreground is the entrance to the goods yard. As you can see, not much has been ballasted, partly because I'm not yet completely happy with the track layout which I will explain in the next update. The town area at the rear is mainly based on Superquick buildings and is basically complete, although I'm sure I will add some detailing in due course. Here is the steam shed and main station building and platforms. In platform 4 is a quad art set (Kirk kit) waiting to return to Moorgate. The next line is the run round loop for the terminating suburban train and also allows goods trains to cross from the down slow to recess for a crew or engine change. It also provides a through route from up goods trains. The final platform 6 on which the front of an N2 can just be seen on the extreme left is currently a terminating platform, although I have plans to extend it 'southwards'. I am building the Scalescenes main station building to replace the Superquick one seen at the back and hope to replace the Metcalfe loco shed in due course (the rails are sticking out of the end until I decide on its exact location). The whole steam shed needs a lot of work as you can see.

Keith, I intend to use Precision labels for the Umber section which will both hide the joins and provide nicely printed crests, lining and car numbers. I've used them before and would agree that his service is very good. Andy