thegreenhowards

Thanks for your kind comments John, I don’t always paint first. It depends on the coach and the weather. I don’t think it really matters, painting first saves masking and allows for easier painting on the flat, but it risks mucking the paint up when attaching the side. I use evostick to attach the sides. Applied to the donor only and adding the sides immediately to allow some time for fine adjustment. I sometimes need to use a bit of cyano to stick a loose section later. I would say that Southern Pride sides on Bachmann donors are one of the easiest of these conversions to do. Let me know if you have any other questions. Andy

Despite my best intentions to complete lots of projects I was away in a B&B last week, and that’s a good opportunity to get the soldering iron out and start some new coaches. So I did the sides for four Thompson coaches. From the top we have RF, SO, RK and FO. The SO is from Mousa and the rest are Southern Pride. Firstly in brass and then resplendent in BR maroon (aka Ford Burbundy Red). The only problem is that I’m down to two donor vehicles, so I’ll have hope there are some going cheap at the Bluebell Railway swap meet next week. I promise some more completed projects soon! All the best Andy

I have just completed another couple of coaches. These are the buffet lounge and SK with Ladies' Retiring Room from the Elizabethan. More details of the build are on my workbench thread at https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/&do=findComment&comment=3534067 This completes my version of the 1957 Elizabethan, which was the last year in which both of these coaches ran in the train. The rake consists of 10 PV Thompsons and just a solitary Mark 1. By 1958, it was down to 8 Thompsons and the Mark 1 'pollution' had doubled. Here is a video of the complete train. I have slowed it down compared with my Talisman video to avoid any more 'lines' from Sir! Regards Andy

The corridor connectors for the Elizabethan coaches finally arrived yesterday and have been fitted. I can't recommend these strongly enough. They are from Fair Price Models (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/fairpricemodels), you get 12 connectors for £3.99 and they're dead easy to fit. (No connection to the company etc....) So now we can see the whole train running past behind 60013 Dominion of New Zealand. The loco is standard Hornby with a light weathering. The train is based on the 1957 Elizabethan formation which was formed of 10 special Pressure Ventilated Thompson coaches and one Mark 1 on the back. The rear two coaches were from Aberdeen, with the rest from Edinburgh. This was the last year in which the buffet lounge and SK with Ladies Waiting Room ran in the train (although the FK with Ladies Waiting Room lasted a few more years). The formation is: BG, FW(LRR), RF,RSO,SK,SK,SK(LRR),Buffet Lounge, SK, SK,BCK(Mark 1)

Tony, Totally agree with the 20 and POs being unacceptable! In my case that might be a production Deltic on a rake of teak liveried stock which I would never do. I allow a little more slack when it comes to trains passing in opposite directions. So my Deltic on maroon Mark 1s might pass the teaks going in the opposite direction with, say, an apple green A1. But I will have to try to minimise the more extreme such events in my sequence. Regards Andy

Phil, i have considered both approaches if modelling two distinct periods and running through a chronological sequence. I’m a bit stuffed in that the sleepers that I’ve built so far are all from the mid fifties (because I found that period more interesting than post Mark 1, but without the trains being impossibly long as they were in the early fifties. This means I’d have to end in the middle of my time sequence! So I will have to be a bit less strict, but try to avoid anything too obviously clashing (like the C1/ Deltic) simultaneously. i agree that poring through the photographic evidence is enjoyable, as is debating it on here. But I need to get better at making a note of useful reference material as I read. Andy

Tony, I recognise the difficulty of modelling every train - although Gilbert does manage it with his cassette system and loose stock. I would certainly have no qualms about using a set of coaches more than once - who’s going to read the numbers? In some cases, you could justifiably use one set four times, for example the Master Cutler/ Sheffield Pullman . My ultimate intention is to model a shortish window of the timetable in full. Given my interest in sleeper trains, this will cover the late afternoon and evening, probably through to the departure of the Night Scotsman. Given my lack of discipline this will cover a wider window of history than LB. I intend to base it on the 1959 timetable, but use trains from c.1950-1961 to cover the end of the Atlantic’s through to the launch of the Deltics. This also allows me a greater proportion of LNER coaching stock than sticking with a late ‘50s rigid timeframe. With all the suburban traffic at the south end of the ECML this will involve a lot of reuse of sets, sometimes with peak strengtheners added, and I certainly won’t be building, for example, half a dozen quad art sets! With judicious bending of the time period I can make more use of some sets. E.g. by modelling the 1957 Talisman, I can use the same set three times in my time window - the up morning and up and down afternoon Talismans. Your system works very well and the ability to showcase 50 trains in a 2.5 hour window is excellent. I particularly like the fact that (nearly?) every train is modelling a particular service - in general based on photographs. Regards Andy

Hello Tony, I’m afraid that I do normally run pretty fast through that reverse curve, because I rather like the look. I appreciate that it’s too fast to be prototypical but then the curve is too tight for a mainline - one of your pet hates I know, sorry! In my defence the camera is zoomed in and it’s not quite as tight as it looks. It’s 5 foot radius at the tightest point transitioning to straight and back to 5 feet the other way. To my eye it looks OK in the flesh, but perhaps too tight on camera. Thanks for all your prototype formation photos. They are indeed inspiration and some would be lovely to model. But they do suffer from that all too common problem of not knowing what the train is. Books so often state 60xxx on an up/ down Express at xxxxxxxx before going on to give chapter and verse about when 60xxx was withdrawn. They miss the really useful information about what the train is....probably because it’s not recorded by the original photographer. While I could just take such a photo and model the train, I like to run to a timetable/ schedule and know what each train that I run is supposed to be. As for the RK, some of the seasonal extras for Tyne Commission Quay (sort of reliefs to the Norseman) had a Thompson RK in the formation, sometimes with a small portion for Newcastle. Could it be one of those? It doesn’t match anything in the 1958 CWN ( which is the only late ‘50s Summer one on Robert Carroll’s list) exactly but is quite similar to the 1040 (SO) from KX. Regards Andy

Andrew, That sounds like a challenge! I know the CWNs are not perfect, but they are the best source we have and I think they’re pretty accurate for the main trains. I always try to find photos as well, but it can be like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack as how many photos clearly show the whole train? For secondary expresses, I know that Mark 1s were often substituted by Thompsons or Gresleys, and I occasionally try to replicate this as in the video of one of the Kings Cross- Cleethorpes services (I’m away so had to rely on an archive video) which has a Thompson SK and a Gresley BSK substituting for Mark 1s. Do you have any ECML snippets from your CWNs you could share? Particularly any excuse to use LNER stock vice Mark 1s! Or, given that we were talking about it recently and the coach is approaching completion, any use of a Thompson BSK(3) on the Norseman. Regards Andy

Duplicate post

Hi Brian, Thanks for the information above. I'd come to the conclusion that a MK1 FO was the best bet since I posted and I've started adapting the roof from a Replica FO (didn't want to chop up a £30+ Hornby coach!). I hadn't realised about the blanking off on the corridor side, but the Parkin book diagram suggest that you're right so I'll have go look at that. Thanks for the tip. I also started with the Southern Pride offerings and have finished the FO E3084 - some photos are on my workbench thread here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/&do=findComment&comment=3537503 I also have E3083 well on the way and the Cravens pair as kits but not yet started. Regards Andy

David, It's a DJH kit. I can't claim any credit for it. I bought it from Rails at Warley 2017. The box says built by M.G. Jose 2010. Regards Andy

Still no corridor connectors to finish the Elizabethan - I think Easter has delayed their dispatch. So I've been finishing off a project I started a good year ago, and then left in a drawer with just the roof to paint - do other people do that sort of thing?! Anyway this is one of the 1957 Mark 1 prototypes. In this case a Mark 1 FO, E3084, built with just six bays of seats rather than the normal seven. The sides are produced by Southern Pride pre-printed on plastic with lining already applied. All that is left to do is apply the number, door furniture and source the rest of the coach. These sides fit directly into an old style Hornby Mk 1 (the type with the two screws through the floor) which can be sourced for a couple of quid. So all I had to do was to build an interior (Southern Pride parts) and detail the roof with the correct vents. It's not the finest quality, but as a quick method for producing an unusual coach, I think it works quite well. I can now form the 0743 York to Kings Cross from 1959 as per the carriage workings (other coaches are RTR except for a Mk 1 BSO built in the same way as E3084 from Southern Pride kits some time ago). I believe this was booked for a York A2/3 which I don't have (yet), so a New England one will have to do instead (please excuse the half complete scenery). ...and just to show that E3084 is actually in the formation!

I used Halford’s etch primer and ford burgundy red paint. Then modelmaster transfers for the lining and numbers and CCT transfers for the roundels. Then a coat of Halford’s gloss lacquer to seal it on the SK. The lacquer has reacted slightly with the lining on the SK, so on the buffet I put the lacquer on first followed by the transfers and I think that worked better. I like the high gloss finish for the Elizabethan, but probably not suitable for everything. Halford’s bumper grey for the roof and humbrol satin black (after masking) for the valence over the solebar.

Thanks David, They’re certainly much easier and quicker than those Thompson sleepers...although not so satisfying! Andy

Tony, I understand your frustration, and I have to say that one of my least favourite jobs is fitting a DCC chip to kit built locos. It often takes a while, and I have had a couple which don’t run as well on DCC. I have also had many RTR locos which run better on DCC. This probably helps to explain why you hate DCC and many other modellers love it. I’ve said this before, but for a roundy roundy layout with 100s of kit built locos (I.e. LB), DC is the only sensible choice, whereas for a newly built terminus layout with lots of shunting and RTR locos, then DCC is the obvious choice. For me, I’m happy to invest a moderate amount of dosh in a system that I (largely) understand and which enables me to simplify wiring and recreate the sound of long lost engines in my loft. I think we we have to agree to disagree! Andy

Tony, Thanks for showing your Talisman. I also built my twin FO before I knew about the door issue and that's how it will stay. Even if building it today, I'm not sure I'd fancy tackling the doors in the Mailcoach sides. They're not exactly made for kit bashing! One point about your Talisman rake. The front vehicle looks like a Mark 1 BSK. The carriage workings list both end vehicles as BSOs, certainly for 1958, and also for the other years that I've checked. I remember this as I spent some time building the Southern Pride kits before Hornby announced their BSO. So could I suggest you swap it over? Having said this, I half expect you to counter me with some photographic evidence to prove that BSKs were used on the day! Regards Andy

Tony, For someone who is never happier than when a soldering iron is in his hand, I can't help thinking, that you're complaining a little too much about sorting out four wires! As for people's inability to fit DCC chips, I couldn't agree more, especially when it has a socket...but I don't think that's DCC's fault. It's the same issue as people being unprepared to change a loco's number or weather it. In fact it could be related to your point last week about all the fragile detail bits. Some people are afraid to take the loco apart for fear of breaking something. I know I've broken small pipes off when getting a loco apart, but nothing that some superglue wouldn't fix. Andy

Tony, It is possible to change the number of bears per revolution on a full spec DCC chip. I know this because I’ve just done it on an L1 to which I fitted a B1 chip - there being no L1 to record, a B1 seemed like the closest comparator. My chip is no pretty well synchronised, with ‘chuffs’ , coasting and bring at the right times I suspect it may not be possible on the much cheaper TTS chips which Hornby often factory fit. You get what you pay for - To me, they’re OK for diesel but rather too basic for steam. I don’t suppose this will change your mind on sound (!), but I felt I should explain that it is possible to sychonise these things correctly. Andy

I’ve been continuing with finishing off projects over Easter, and two more coaches are more or less finished. They are the SK with Ladies Retiring Room and Buffet from the Elizabethan. These two coaches will allow me to complete my 1957 version of the train. This was the last year in which these two coaches were in the train. The SK went to the Heart of Midlothian in 1958 and I’m not sure what happened to the buffet. They are both made from Southern Pride sides on a Bachmann donor. The buffet interior is quite unusual with a small eating area of 1+1 seating and a side passageway. I made it up using Southern Prides seats and windows, plasticard for the buffet counter and a Hornby Buffet detailing pack that I got on eBay from a company called LHP. The SK with LRR interior is just painted Bachmann. No need to model the LRR as it has white windows (and I don’t know what it looked like anyway!). Underframes are standard Bachmann except that they have MJT heavy duty bogies as did all coaches in the Elizabethan. just waiting for corridor connectors to finish them off, then I will post a video of the complete train. Andy

Hello, I thought I’d reawaken this thread to pose a question about Doncaster prototype SK number E25457 which was used on the White Rose from 1959 through to the early 1960s. In particular I want to model it during the period when ‘DELTIC’ was working on the train. Does anyone know of a kit for this coach or have any suggestions on how to model it. It had seven compartments rather than the eight on a normal SK and a toilet at each end. It’s frustratingly similar to a standard FK, but has a central door on the compartment side. Regards Andy

I’ve also been trying to create some pipe loads. They’re not quite finished, but I’m quite pleased with how they look. They're based on some photos of Stanton pipe trains and I need some lettering to write ‘Stanton’ on the side but I’m not sure of the font, so they will stay unlettered for now. I’ve also been finishing off some steel pipe loads based on McDonalds straws panted in red oxide primer. Here is a video of my pipe and steel train in action. The wagons should probably be split between a number of separate trains, but this shows them all off.

Tony, A lovely collection of dining cars! I also suffer from evostick under the cornice. I think the best approach is to let it dry thoughourly and then rub it off. Definitely don’t try to remove when wet as the paint comes off with it! How do I know this?...... All the best Andy

Here is a photo of my latest finished build. A Thompson RSO for my Talisman rake. It's made from Mousa sides on a Bachmann donor coach and painted in Ford Burgundy red from Halfords. Transfers are from Modelmaster. The complete rake is mainly kit built with two Southern Pride Mk 1 BSOs, a Mailcoach twin FO and a Comet RF on Bachmann donor and just two Bachmann RTR Mark 1s. The other coaches were completed several years ago and a Comet RSP has been standing in for the RSO. A short (20 secs) video of the train in action is shown here.

I'm having a concentrated effort to finish a few projects which have been on the go for far too long...in some cases over a year. The first to be finished is a Mousa models RSO for my Talisman rake (only started in November so not bad by my standards!). This will replace a RSP which has been running in the rake for far too long, because when I first completed the rake I'd never heard of Mousa Models (!) and had to make do with the closest match that Comet could provide. The rake is now complete running as it was in 1957/8. The coach is shown here. It's made from Mousa sides on a Bachmann donor coach and painted in Ford Burgundy red from Halfords. Transfers are from Modelmaster. A video of the rake in action on my layout, Gresley Junction is here.