thegreenhowards

Tony, Love the shots of the steel panelled twins. I think the train heading for Spalding will be an East Lincs stopping service. They were used extensively in these. I’m a bit surprised to see the Mk1 CK though. When the purpose built CKs were replaced, I thought that they mainly used Thompson CKs with the twins on the East Lincs with Mk1s being used between Peterborough and King’s Cross. I think the artic twin you wanted identified is a D.214 as built for services out of Marylebone in the late ‘30s. Where is the photo taken? Andy

Another train which didn’t feature during my sequence is the humble pick up goods. The more observant amongst you will have seen a motley line of wagons sitting in a siding with a J15 on the front. Well it’s been there for about two years as it was too much hassle to shunt with the old goods yard and having to reverse out to depart. But with the new track layout it becomes more practical, so here is J15, 65479 on the up pick up goods arriving in the new loop line at Gresley Jn. The old goods yard had horrible old Peco points with the large frogs which made shunting unreliable. However, I found enough new electrofrog points for the relaying so it runs much better. I am also experimenting with Kadees for my pick up which seem to work quite well although I sometimes struggle to get them to couple up without running the next wagon over the magnet and that uncoupling. The solution seems to be to use permanent couplings between groups of two or three wagons so that there’s no chance of uncoupling. I’ve used some Bachmann pipes couplings and lots of the excellent ’James Trains’ 3D printed instanter and 3 link couplings, but I’ve now run out so need to order some more. I’ve prepared 3 short videos today showing the shunting operation. If shunting isn’t your thing then I recommend giving them a miss! The first move is to leave the back of the train on the up slow. These are the wagons that are not being shunted at Gresley Jn. I’m not sure whether it would be acceptable to leave the wagons on the slow line within station limits - comments welcome. The first video shows the three empty coal wagons being collected. The vans are coupled with James Trains instanter couplings to avoid them uncoupling on the Kadee magnet. The second shows the vans being deposited in the goods shed (off screen) and the loaded mineral wagons by the coal staithes. The minerals are Kadees throughout and it took a couple of takes to avoid them uncoupling when dropping off the vans - more work needed! The two open wagons next to the minerals have Bachmann Pipes connectors to avoid unintentional uncoupling. The third video shows the front of the train being reattached to the rear which was left on the up slow and then departing via the new loop line. Looking at the video, I need to control my speed in shunting - sorry! The train will leave via the new third tunnel and there is assumed to be a connection back onto the up slow beyond the tunnel. Any comments welcome - particularly on experience with Kadees. Andy

Clive, I agree that a D.210 and, to a slightly lessor extent, a D.214 would be suitable for Sheffield Exchange. You might have to use rule 1 for the D.244 though! As you say, coach research and building is very interesting and I think I prefer it to locos. Not many people have A D.210/ D.214/ D.244 but locos are pretty common - even ones only available in kit form. It’s certainly more difficult as photos are much rarer and less likely to be identified in the caption and literature is less prolific. We are lucky to have the likes of Robert Carroll, Steve Banks and ‘Headstock’ (amongst many others) with their fantastic knowledge and collections of photos. I also like the fact that once the kit and info is available, a coach is much quicker to build than a loco and I know that I can get it running smoothly. I struggle for ages to get kit built locos running to an acceptable level. I’m currently building the 52F A5 kit. I think Ive put in 12 hours so far and it’s slowly coming together, but there’s lots more to do. A coach (or two) would be finished in that time. Andy

Hi Clive, Do you mean the origins of the model? If so I wrote it up on Coulsdon Works starting here: It stretched over several months, but the sides are Mousa and the rest mainly MJT and 247. I now have a MasterClass Models complete kit to build following a recommendation from ‘Headstock’ of this Parish. As for the prototypes, I think D.210 was similar to D.214, but the latter was GC only whereas the D.210 was used on both GN and GC. Both built in late ‘30s. I don’t know anything about the D.244. Andy

The truth is I just love tinkering. I enjoy track laying much more than scenery so I think I make the changes almost sub-consciously to delay having to start the scenery. I managed to do a fair bit when my daughter was interested, but she’s now more interested in painting her face than the layout!

I look forward to the day I can put it behind me! Your finished control panel is inspiring.....until you showed us the inside when it became very scary

The goods yard relaying is now complete. ...and I’ve made the changes to my control panel in what I might call ‘Tony Teague’ style. By that I mean that my mimic diagram is on paper and I can make changes to it easily with sticky labels and felt tips. When I feel that, even I, can meddle with the track plan no more, then I will produce a more professional looking laminated version and try to fit it to the same footprint so that the studs still line up with the holes. Thankfully mine has less than 10% as much ‘spaghetti’ behind as Tony’s! I have ‘replonked’ the scenery for the time being and will test run it a little before doing anything more permanent scenery wise. In that vain, here is one train which I didn’t run during the sequence, the branch shuttle from Dunstable. The geography has got confused as this enters Gresley Jn from the SE instead of the NW as it did at Hatfield, but it’s reflective of the sort of train which would have run. For those who haven’t seen if before, the stock is a Gresley D.210 CL-BS twin artic. These were declassified to second only and used on the Dunstable branch in the late ‘50s (possibly earlier, but I don’t have any earlier carriage working notices). Firstly a video of it arriving with N7, 69637. Then the N7 running round. And finally waiting to depart back to Dunstable.

Tony, You’re jogging my memory now. When I first built the Talisman I don’t think I’d heard of Southern Pride - they don’t have a big presence online or in print! So I started on the catering and used the nearest available that I knew about which was a Thompson RSP from Comet - this now runs in my Norseman rake. I later discovered Southern Pride, probably when I was looking for a source for the BSOs. I’ve now replaced the RSP with the correct PV RSO from Southern Pride. Ironically this runs on Comet HD bogies which they do now make. Andy

Tony, Thanks for your comments and photos about the Talisman. I decided to model the formation quite early on in my conversion to real formations thinking that as an 8 car formation it would be easy.....wrong! Six of the eight needed kit building, which I achieved Comet brass sides For the RF & RSO and Southern Pride for the two BSOs. I also missed the extra doors in the twin FO. My set does three trips in my sequence: 1. Up morning Talisman 2. Down Afternoon Talisman 3. Up evening Talisman. The sequence doesn’t start early enough for the down morning version. I can get away with this because pre 1958 the same set worked up and down trains, so 1 and 2 above should be the same rake. 3 would also be the same formation, but should be a different set of coaches, so I have to hope there are no coach number spotters on my platforms! Andy

And now for the mainline artics. First our we have the West Riding which had twins of the pre-war West Riding Limited. First up a BTO-TO created from Mailcoach sides which I managed to get from Coopercraft even though he couldn’t supply the rest of the kit. The rest was cobbled together from MJT and 247 bits. and then a RT-TO. This was acquired from Gamston Bank via Tony and was built from a D&S kit. and here they are sandwiching a Thompson FO on the West Riding in very early ‘50s formation. Then we have the Talisman with its twin FO built from a Mailcoach kit acquired from Coopercraft when he was still functioning semi normally. The the ex Silver Jubilee triplet again acquired from Gamston Bank. I think this is a Marc Models kit. It forms part of the 1735 Kings Cross - Newcastle in mid ‘50s guise. And finally a Kirk triplet built by me from a Kirk kit acquired second hand from a friend at my club.

Next up I’m showing my suburban artics. Pride of place must go to the quad art set. This is an unembellished Kirk kit and was built quite a while ago, so is not up to my current standards (which I hope have improved), but it took a year and is quite rarely modelled as a full 8 car set so I’m very fond of it. Next is probably my finest artic model (of the ones I’ve built). This is a D.210 BT-CL built from Mousa sides with the rest cobbled together. The N7 is SE Finecast on a Bachmann Pannier chassis. Next up a 51ft F-T built from a Kirk kit with MJT underframe. I bought this half completed as part of a job lot and finished it off. It runs as part (coach 5/6) of an early post nationalisation outer suburban set which also includes a rather poor Hornby BS-CL combo (coach 1/2) which is best glossed over and will be replaced in due course. Next an outer suburban steel panelled artic as already shown by others. This is built from Mousa sides on a Hornby railroad Gresley donor. It runs as part of a five set, but I haven’t yet built the other pair, so a couple of Hornbys stand in. Next up mainline artics. Andy

Andrew, I use 800 grade sandpaper on the back of the glazing. On close inspection it looks like I was rather enthusiastic with the middle windows but the three on the right look about right to me. Andy

I'm loving all the photos of artics - they are so LNER/ER! My photos are not particularly well filed so it will take me a while to sort all mine out. But here's a starter for 10 with sleeping car trains - probably my favourites as there was so much variety and I like the associated romance. Firstly the Aberdonian which for most of it's life had a Gresley twin SLC in the formation. There were only two of these built and they ran North and South on alternate nights in the Aberdonian. These were cobbled together from Kirk 'cut and shuts' and fitted to a Hornby Railroad Gresley donor. Here they are in the full train (mid '50s formation). Next up we have a Gresley Twin SLF which runs in my 'The Night Scotsman' formation. This was created from Mousa sides again on a Hornby Railroad Gresley donor (lesson learnt - when I build my second I will use a more modern Hornby for the donor). Here it is in the Night Scotsman (1958 SO) formation. More to follow later. Andy

I have to say I agree with you on the point rodding. It looks fantastic when done, but I don't notice its omission. I think it's too big a job for Gresley Jn, even if I ever get the rest of the scenery up to an acceptable standard, so I will live without it. I would stick to your guns and accept that what you have is a truly remarkable model railway and that it makes up for the lack of point rodding in other ways.

Thanks to everyone for their encouragement on my artic pair. I had a very quick and helpful response from Andy Edgson at Isinglass Models and he’s doing a bit of further research. Anyway having thought about it further, I think I’m going to keep them as they are for two reasons: 1. There is a (remote) possibility that some of the sets had domed ends. All that Andrew’s picture definitively shows is that the first set had straight ends at some point (I assume when built?). 2. But more importantly, if I change it to straight ends, it just becomes the same as a Plywood version and I already have some of those. I built this because I wanted something different. Mick, in answer to your question, the Mailcoach kit is (I think) supposed to represent the plywood version which was D.171. However, the steel version (D.307) with straight ends is essentially the same in model form. Andy

Ahh the streamlined post fire problem. Better a door than a roof!

Better than Gresley - I like that idea!

Thanks Tony, Mick and ‘Hollar’ for your thoughts, I must admit that sticking them on eBay and being slightly ‘economical with the truth’ was my first thought. But that would be a bit naughty - plus a significant chunk of the potential market has just read this! And on second thoughts, it would be a shame to lose them as I’ve put the effort in...particularly all that sanding down. So I think I will contact Isinglass first - it will probably be a fairly easy mod to the kit to correct, and he ought to know. Then I’ll run them for a bit to check how they perform. Removing the roofs would probably be possible - they’re superglued on, but have come apart in places so I think the ‘super’glue was not so super. So that sounds like a possible route - I have a box of badly built Mailcoach ply versions which I could raid. I’m not sure how easy patching the ends would be, but I could use a Mailcoach one if I can get them off. I’ll look forward to seeing your articulated stock. I’m a bit of a sucker for them as they’re different and they’re so Gresley. Andy

The main track laying and wiring for my modification is now complete. There was a pause because I ran out of Gaugemaster DCC Autofrogs, but Hattons came to the rescue pretty quickly, so all the points are now wired with motors. The only work remaining is to relay the goods yard which now has a gap on the entrance. Hopefully this will be quick as its not used very often so the points are manually operated. I’ve lost some space, so it will probably become 4 sidings rather than the five at present.

Very frustrating, but thanks Andrew. Any suggestion as to what I do with them other than throw them in the bin?!

Some time ago, there was a discussion about the Isinglass Gresley kits. I’m now nearing completion on my first attempt, so I thought I’d share it to give an idea what they come out like in the hands of a somewhat impatient modeller. This is the D.307 twin which was similar to the plywood tourist stock but made from steel. The diagrams and Isinglass show this as having Gresley style domed outer ends, however Clive M of this Parish has raised a question as to whether they in fact had straight ends like the plywood sided stock - I haven’t found a picture so any comments welcome (although if its the wrong answer I’d probably rather remain in blissful ignorance!). Overall I’m fairly pleased with the result. However the sides took a lot of rubbing down to remove the 3D printing lines and some roughness is still evident close up as I ran out of patience. This rubbing down would be more difficult on a teak panelled coach as the panelling would get in the way. However in this case a little remaining texture might be less obvious and could possibly be passed off as wood grain? I bought the Isinglass underframe as well (optional extra) which consists of the floor pan, sole bars and bogies (heavy duty in the centre and standard at the outer ends in this case). It is a wonderfully simple clip in fit to the body. The bogies seem fine, but the design takes Hornby ones as well, so I’ve tried a Hornby at one end. Other underframe bits are MJT. I’ve followed the supplied diagram, but this shows only one dynamo which I thought was surprising. Is this plausible? Main work remaining is glazing and interior. I’m not sure what to do about the interior as my normal approach is to use Southern pride seats, but their second class one is out of stock and has been for over a year. Any suggestions welcome. Andy

That’s what I was trying to say, but you put it much more succinctly! But if you’re going to spend the Modellers Mecca type of money, I agree with Steve (31A) that the MJT ones are better still. For me the cheap Fair Price Models one do for ‘layout rakes’ - e.g. a rake of Bachmann Mark 1s. However, if building a special one off coach, I may treat it to an MJT version. Andy

I have used the modellers Mecca corridor connectors and they’re good, but rather expensive if fitting a whole rake. I use Fair Price Models who advertise on eBay. They do a range of different connectors at 12 for £3.99 postage included with discounts for multi purchases. For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-x-00-Gauge-Bachmann-Hornby-MK1-Corridor-Connector-Gangway-Bellows-4mm-BR/122128749200?hash=item1c6f70d290:g:~K4AAOSwQSZXPlEc I have found them easy to fit and very reliable. Andy

Tony, Even though I’ve seen the yards in the flesh they still look quite remarkable in a photo. I think they’ve expanded since I saw them - the cassette system is new isn’t it? How are you getting on with persuading locos to pull a decent length train up the gradient to the upper yard? Andy

Hi Andy, Good to hear from you. I don’t get round to operating the layout very often except when I have visitors, so it was good to have an excuse to run the trains. I particularly enjoyed trying to recreate all the formations as accurately as possible, some of which I’d never done before. I never did too long at a single session, but it took lots of time overall. Each train could take anything between 20 mins to an hour depending on how long it took to put together and whether it needed any retakes. These were more common than they should be, either because of derailments (thankfully quite rare) or more likely because of operator error (signals normally!) or photographer error. It was all good fun, and I’ll probably do it again some time, but I’m enjoying a break at the moment. How about doing something similar for ‘Two Bridges Up Sidings’ given that we’re not likely to have an exhibition any time soon. Andy