Blythtyneboi

On 11/06/2020 at 11:18, 60027Merlin said:

 

The 6 of them  were transferred south in 1949. 60501 - 60503 went to York and 60504 - 60506 to New England. The York based three were very rare visitors to Edinburgh whilst it was highly unlikely that the other three got past Newcastle.

Thanks Merlin. On balance I might change my order from Thane (R3831) to Cock O' The North (R3830) and update the tender to late crest (my main period is 1969-64). I'm also toying with the idea of renaming/renumbering to 60502 as this was the longest-lived of the sub-class. As others on this thread have commented, it's a bit of minefield!

Were any of the A2/2s seen North of Newcastle in BR days? I've got Thane of Fife on order anyway as I can always invoke rule 1 (it's my train set, I'll run what I like) but a genuine excuse would be better;)

I have Railway Stations of the North East by Ken Hoole, published by David & Charles in 1985 (ISBN 0 7153 8527 5) which has a chapter on "York to Scarborough and the work of G T Andrews". Copies appear on ebay quite regularly. It's a bit light on detail about goods facilities but it does contain a part elevation and cross-section of the goods shed at Seamer, drawn by Bill Fawcett. Bill's own website - http://www.railwayarchitecture.org.uk/Introduction.htm - may have more information.

The three-volume history of NER Architecture may have something more relevant. I only have the first volume and don't have it to hand at the moment but I'll check to see if there's anything that covers the area you're interested in.

I don't have Number 6 but in the North from Newcastle book, page 34, the carriage in question is clearly an LNER post-war Thompson Restaurant First. It is followed by a Thompson open third. Unusually, the train has a Mark I Diag 73 open first in crimson and cream, possibly a substitute for one of the ex-Coronation twin-firsts.

 

If the dates are correct, the images are from the end of the 1956-7 Winter timetable, when there was only an evening Talisman. In the Summer 1957 timetable, the sets worked a round trip in a day following the introduction of the morning Talisman. However, when the morning service was extended to and from Perth, as The Fair Maid, separate sets were once again used for the morning and evening runs, even after the Perth extension was abandoned.

Thank you Robert, very informative as usual, and it confirmed my suspicions that it was highly unlikely for the East Coast named expresses to "borrow" LMR catering stock. The Mark 1 D173 FO is the carriage I misidentified as an SK or SO.

On page 42 of the Book Law album "East Coast Main Line 6" there is a photograph showing A4 No 60024 Kingfisher with the down Talisman passing Killingworth on 14th June 1957. The caption asks the reader to "-note the12-wheeled ex LMS Restaurant car". Unfortunately there is a lot of foreground in the picture which means the consist appears relatively small, making identification of the vehicles difficult, but there appear to be only 7 carriages in the consist and the tell-tale multiple whited-out windows of a catering vehicle seem to be at the 5th coach behind the loco. Still impossible to confirm what it is though.

I did however find in another Book Law album "North From Newcastle" a photo of the up​ evening Talisman of the previous day, 13th June at Little Benton Jn. This picture, on page 34 of that album shows 60024 again, but this time the consist is much clearer, appears to be the same one (but "reversed") and the catering vehicle is now at coach 3 of 7, adjacent to the only crimson/cream vehicle (Mk1 SO? SK?) which leads me to believe the two trains are made of the identical rakes.

I know its a long shot that someone has both albums but in this second photo (of the earlier date) the restaurant or kitchen car's profile appears different to that of adjacent Mk1 vehicle but to me the bogies look like Gresleys. So is the caption for the earlier photo incorrect? There doesn't appear to be, for example, the twin FO that is in the 1958 carriage working book, and wasn't the Talisman around this time usually 9 bogies not 7? Or am I misinterpreting the clearer photo and did an LMS catering vehicle put in a shift on the ECML at this time? And if so why?

Thanks.