6892 Oakhill Grange

Hi

Using the data from the book, I created the calculation.

If the tender is full, then the centre of gravity of the loco and tender is pretty much at half the wheelbase, so you would have 15 to 18” clearance at either of the wheelbase with a 55ft table.

Stop at the coaling stage and fill up the tank first though, if the tender is empty, you need a 65ft table.

Adrian

Hi All

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-67611057

New news or repackaged old news?  Does anyone know what we will get for our money?

4 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

Remember the proposed Northern connectrail service from Teesside to Newcastle was to be routed via Stillington!

I think it briefly was until someone realized there was insufficient capacity.  Northbound Mbro to Newcastle trains would have to cross the southbound ECML at Tursdale or Ferryhill South Junctions depending on where the platforms are built.

This was the spur to my OP.  What services can actually stop at a new Ferryhill station.  Do we get slower TP services? Or a 2 hour service with alternating Ferryhill and Chester-le-Street stops.  I can’t see any other operator wanting to stop.

If the platforms are on the fasts then dwell time will play havoc with the ECML timetable.  If the platforms are on the slows then the weave from fast to slow and back again will play havoc with the ECML timetable.

I always assumed that the prospects for a station at Ferryhill were tied to the fortunes of the Leamside line.   Otherwise as per my OP its a single platform in the middle of the lines at Ferryhill with a slow trundle to Middlesbrough and possible extension to Saltburn or Nunthorpe / Whitby.  

I am not sure what work on this has been done in the background using Restoring your Railway cash.

Adrian

My inability to spell is a cross I bear, please excuse me.

Hi All

Time for some fun and speculation.  I am 54 and may live long enough to see trains call at the new Ferryhill (Co. Durham) Station.

What exotic destinations do people expect that I will be able to travel to?

Will Ryantrains market it as Teeside and Wearside Parkway and offer a non-stop service to Kings Cross?

Yours with Tongue in Cheek

Oakhill (occasional Darlingtonian)

ANTB was not on page 1 - solved.

Oakhill

Hi All

Generally I am not that interested in this topic.  However my summer experiences may be of interest even if they are in Scotland where the closure may not apply.

My daughter is 17 and as we only spend a few weeks in Scotland every year, I thought a 16-17 saver would be the cheapest option to get discounts.  Initially long distance journeys on Lumo and LNER posed no problems, but after a few attempts I noticed that there were no online discounts on Scotrail for the 16-17.  Living in Edinburgh City Centre meant that we passed Waverley virtually every day and we could easily plan to buy tickets from the office.  A gentlemen their told me that the 16-17 was not accepted in Scotland, however he checked the machine and it would / did sell us the discounted ticket with a 16-17 saver on an Edinburgh - Polmont return.  Two days later we obtained the same discount on the same tickets.  However, a week earlier I had paid £30 more than needed for an Edinburgh - Aviemore return for my daughter using Scotrail online.

It won’t break the bank, but saving the £30 would count as legitimate tax avoidance as per a different thread.  I am not sure if the 16-17 saver is valid on these internal Scotland journeys, and I don’t really care as everybody involved behaved in the correct way but:

1.  I object to being ripped off by the web and the machines (and refresh my browser history frequently when booking flights(,

2. My 12 year old is going to Aviemore and back for a quid rather than £60

It seems that having a face to speak to may be of more value to the customer than the supplier!

Adrian of Muscat

From “Great Western Railway Locomotive Allocations for 1921” by Ian Harrison the following are at Lydney in that year:

2024, 2025, 2029, 2032, 2040, 2041, 2053, 2068, 2069, 2080, 2084, 2085, 2087, 2093, 2138 and 2150.

Lydney must have needed low axle weights as the only other residents listed are Dean Goods.

Adrian

Hi Gentlemen

Apologies.

i opened the UniSim file this was all calculated with about 5 years ago and discovered my error.  I had been exploring a what if the cylinders on a Castle had been lined down and the boiler pressure was increased to 250 psi.

So the improvement would only have been about 20%.  The reduction in exhaust back pressure is incredibly important because the machine works on pressure ratio.  The 20ish% is split evenly between backpressure and superheat.

Caveat: all my experience is on steam devices than spin rather than move back and forth.

Adrian

Is extrapolation

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Where did that extra power come from? The fitting of double exhaust etc. led to a freer-flowing steam circuit, but did not change the basic parameters - the nominal tractive effort would be unchanged. With freer exhaust, the back pressure in the cylinders would be reduced, but I find it difficult to believe that that would make quite such a large difference?

Sorry its a guess resulting from larger superheater, double blast pipes and some other internal debottlenecking.

Some of it is based on calculations by a professional engineer, i.e. me.  The rest 

18 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The maximum permitted speed on the Up Main Through Line was  80mph in 1960.  There was no restriction below line speed (which was not specified in any case) in the 1910 STT.  So  I doubt the Driver of 'Duke of Connaught' did anything too naughty passing Reading.

 

And whisper it not too loudly but the line from Swindon to Paddington isn't anybody's billiard table - or certainly not one I have ever played on - as apart from a total of about 6 miles in the three level stretches the rest of the 77 miles from Swindon to Paddington is a steadily falling gradient all the way from Swindon station to Paddngton.  Very definitely not a steep gradient but down hill almost all the way (steepest bits are 1 in 660).  By popular repute locally Swindon station is on a level with the cross on top of the dome of St Paul's Cathedral (according to the Swindonians) so no wonder its downhill to London.

 

It was with the standard Swindon-Gloucester 'steam specials' formation which I think was probably load 6 or 7 - I am fairly sure that I have the tonnage stashed away somewhere.  Strangely in one place - on a downhill section between Sapperton and Kemble the 'King' beat the 'Castle's times by a few seconds.  I didn't record speeds but only recorded 'from start', 'to stop', and 'to pass' times.

 

The 'King' was stopped at signal UK 99 on one run and its acceleration from there up to the tunnel, in bad weather, after that stop was also fairly spectacular.

If I had to choose between a 1931 Castle, a post ‘56 King or Castle or a HST, I would choose the ‘56 Castle which should have 33% more power than Tregenna or Launceston Castle.  My first journeys on a HST were university visits in the cold snap of 1987.

18 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

One big  problem - except for one or two people who are known to be able to manage it - will be to be able to maintain the firing rate.  The other problem is water (although a solution does exist) as there are no longer any water troughs.

 

Simpler test would be a 'Jubilee' up the Gloucester side of the climb to Sapperton - where in 1985 a 'Castle' totally trashed the HST point-to-point running times.

Please tell us more.  In 1985 I was much more interested in how to get served in the pub.  Is this exploit really with a total train of about 400t demonstrating 3500hp at the rail.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23367169.labour-steals-march-local-tories-committing-leamside-line/

The Leamside line seems to be a popular subject in Country Durham but I have never been sure if anyone knows what it would be useful for.  It could offer a local service for communities in central Durham.  It could offer a faster regional service from Middlesbrough to Newcastle offering agglomeration benefits for the region.  It could offer a faster freight route and additional capacity from the south to Tyne Dock.  It could offer a useful diversionary route for ECML and possibly an extra route for LDHS passenger services from the south to Newcastle.  It could allow Washington to be connected to the Metro.  Have I covered all options?  It even offers fantastic opportunities for politicians to claim votes.  One thing I am clear about is that the Leamside line cannot offer all of the above.

Any thoughts

Oakhill

20 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Looks good on a shed though.

 

No just as bad as it looks on a tin of spam

In case you all feel jealous of 30 deg C afternoon temps in Muscat at the mo, a tin of spam costs 30 quid.

Oakhill

The last one for clarity

3 hours ago, checkrail said:

Happy new year to all.  As promised I got the camera out and blew the dust off it.  Here's 5000 'Launceston Castle' at the head of a Plymouth express.

 

 

(Only just noticed that some vandal has tipped a bench over!  Can only have been me.)

 

After a busy few weeks I'm finally finding some time for modelling and hope to share the results before long.

 

John C.

One of the most realistic colour pictures I have seen for many years.

Hi Andy

I am sure that the oil and gas industry loves hydrogen because it sees a continuation of business as usual and government money to build the blue hydrogen plants.

Green hydrogen needs green electricity and I guess we are moving that way, with Russian foreign policy encouraging the transition.

I am dissappointed that nothing significant has happened  in the UK.  We have trial train conversions but despite regional support for hydrogen hubs there has been no order for trains.

Adrian

4 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Although the 15xx class never set foot near Brent to my knowledge, three of the class were seen near the home of this thread. Here we see 1502 in maroon courtesy of Michael Mears.

 

 

 

I find the painting of god’s own locomotives in Hogwarts livery very distressing.  Is it performing empty stock workings at Hogsmeade?

25 minutes ago, DY444 said:

Do I detect in this announcement the first signs that the "engineering is too difficult" contagion which is plaguing England and Wales is now spreading to Scotland?  This whole thing smacks of wanting to avoid at any costs coming up with a plan to tackle the gargantuan elephant in the room which spans the Firth of Forth.  I speak as someone who has a feeling that BEMUs are going to prove to be a very expensive mistake (assuming any actually get delivered).  

More like there’s not very much cash going spare, about 100 trains are life expired and a lot of this can be delivered on the never never using money from Edinburgh banks.

Hi

My point was more about how will the 156s be replaced.  On the Maryhill and Barrhead / EK lines the new BMU / BEMU will replace the 156s directly.  In the East, the battery units will replace 170s and 158s, so 170s and 158s will have to move west if the press release is correct and the 156s are to be replaced.

I assume that services onwards to Kilmarnock and then Ayr etc will remain diesel as the electric parts of the journey are too short to allow full charging but we shall see how the technology develops.

156s are the only units equipped to work the West Highland Line, so an upgrade has to be done.  Is fitting the kit actually hard.  I lost track years ago of which units are currently route cleared for the WHL.

Adrian

Hi

This is what I expected to happen, I.e a large order to replace most of the 1980s units.  Speculation can begin now:

What happens to the services that extend beyond Barrhead to Kilmarnock, Carlisle and south of Ayr.  

What happens on the West Highland Lines.

What happens to the 158s which are only a handful of years younger than the 156s.

Adrian of Muscat / Sometimes Edinburgh and rarely Aberdeen.

Thanks All

i was more interested in the apparent gap between Market H and South Wigston.

If the Market H scheme was to be extended or had been agreed to be extended to South Wigston, I imagine a politician would have told us.  But apart from a couple of posts earlier in this thread I have heard nothing.

Oakhill

Hi All

I came across this on the web:

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2022/W21/775291288

it seems to indicate that electrification to South Wigston will have been done by others before the main project is carried out.  I appreciate that we are in a detailed planning period post IRP and if wiring to Wigston had been approved, the government would have announced it 12 times by now, but does anyone know anything.

I font even know what this site is.

Thanks

On 11/02/2022 at 19:11, The Stationmaster said:

No Neal - outshopped (i.e on building) with a top feed boiler but later seen without a top feed as boiler changes took place.  

 

So the manufacturer needs to include both a top feed and a back head feed option in their range if doing the 57XX and the 8750 (for those reboilered at some stage without trop feed .  So something to add to the basic lists of variations within the class which in summary are 57XX with or without automatic brake, and with or without snaphead rivetted tanks and 8750 with or without automatic brakes. Plus seasonal steam heat pipes on the automatic brake fitted engines.  

 

And that's before you even think about the 97XX sub group which I suspect might be that bit too specialised but then equally we have seen in recent years how models of small specialised groups of engines and stock do seem to sell rather well (not that anyone has published the numbers of how many they've made/sold).

A question formed in my mind.  Did the tanks last the full 25+ year life of the riveted engines? If replacement tanks were required were they welded?  Did the number of riveted tanks decline over time?  Is there an example of a loco carrying one riveted and one welded?

Oakhill