GERDecapod

The 2-2-2WT supplied to the Gankirk railway does bear a strong resemblance to Aerials Girdle.

25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

BTW, do you notice how similar that baggage tank is to “Ariel’s Girdle” in its first iteration?

Yes the baggage tank does look strikingly similar Aerials Girdle. I imagine the railways across the pond where struck with a different set of problems to solve compared to their British counterparts. With some areas in Europe being much less population dense due to being much larger in comparison with the Uk. The issue being very light used and lightly laid lines that would really only necessitate and allow for a tank engine of such a design. That could be to be driven by a single man to cut down on costs. The single man operation is what I find to be most interesting, with some engines being fitted with gravity operated automatic stokers. Allowing for the driver to only pay attention to how much water he has in the boiler. 

European railways where quite fond of small tank engines for light suburban traffic, some even being built with single man operation in mind. A phenomenon that never procured onto British designs, are tank engines with built in baggage compartments called omnibuses. Take a look at the Prussian T0 2-2-0 tank engines, used quite successfully on light suburban trains. With one surviving into preservation.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preußische_T_0#/media/Datei:WP_T0.jpg

The Oka1 and BBÖ-12 being the most modern 2-2-2 tank engine classes I'm aware of. With twenty six OKa1's being built in batches in 1928 and 1931 for light suburban traffic. And two BBÖ 12's being rebuilt from the kkStB 97 class 0-6-0 tank engines for express regional services in 1934 and 37. Both classes have outside cylinders and valve gear but, sadly no outside frames. Being late members to join the 2-2-2 tank club.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKa1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBÖ_12#:~:text=The BBÖ 12 was a,(Bundesbahnen Österreichs%2C BBÖ).

Yes as-built Aerolite was a 2-2-2 well tank later being given side tanks and new boiler. In 1892 being extensively rebuilt into a 4-2-2t 2-cylinder compound. And then again in 1902 being rebuilt as a 2-2-4t as it required a larger bunker.

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/ner-class-66-lner-class-x1-2-2-4t-aerolite/

Wouldn't Gazelle's size prohibit her from pulling a meaningful train? As in a few 4-wheel coaches. I've read she was only built to haul Mr. Burkitt light engine as his private locomotive. Then having to be rebuilt by Bagnall with smaller drivers and converted into 0-4-2 to work on the Criggion branch. Still as a 2-2-2 Gazelle is on the best looking tank engines I've ever seen.

I was able to find another similar locomotive built for the West Midland railway. With what appears to be outside frames and running gear, but with inside cylinders. 

The Germans got quite close to what I'm looking for in the form of a 2-2-2 express passenger locomotive later rebuilt into a 2-4-0.

Yes the French where quite fond of British simple cylindered designs, I recall reading that some French railways instead of designing there own locomotives, simply bought of the shelf British 4-4-0s. The last 2-2-2 I believe being withdrawn in 1908. Although I'd be intrigued to see a French compound 2-2-2.

The Sharp Stewart 2-2-2's certainly would be an excellent choice to model.

I hope I'd be able to find a similar real life prototype, as I prefer modeling real prototypes and not making freelance models.

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I know it isn’t what you want, but a good place to look for early tank engines is among top class contemporary models from engineers and instrument makers, and I really like this one. By Radiguet, 1840s:

 

Model makers back then certainly had a knack for making some absolutely stunning models. I assume that particular model is a live steamer.

Funnily enough I was able to find another fictional outside framed & cylindered 2-2-2t for a fictional German railway on the web.

My mistake I mistook it for a Crewe type at first glance.

Upon some more internet digging I found a crewe type 2-2-2 built for Inverness & Ross-shire railway and then rebuilt into a 2-2-2 tank in 1871 by the Highland railway. Although I'm still on the search for an outside framed and cylindered 2-2-2t.

33 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

It strikes me that the nearest you might find in appearance to the fictional one at the start is a Crewe-type 2-2-2 converted to a back tank, which surely somebody must have done, somewhere, and if they didn’t, your fictional railway could.

 

Full outside frame, outside cylinder locos were standard fare on narrow gauge lines, where a key issue was getting good space for the firebox, and speeds tended to be low enough, and clearances great enough, that the disadvantages in terms of width and tendency to cause ‘boxing’,  which made the idea rare in standard gauge (I can’t easily think of a British one) didn’t apply.

 

Here is an Indian beauty, but 5’6” gauge:

 

 

There is a brilliant 1:16 model of a somewhat similar (no sun-roof) loco from the Dublin & Kingstown Railway in the Science Museum (upstairs gallery, above ‘Rocket’), but I think that dates from the 5’3” era.

 

 

Bears a striking resemblance to the now preserved 2-2-2t 'Fairy Queen' of the East Indian railway.

I'm familiar with many of these tank engines especially the Furness 2-2-2 tanks as I was able to find a report written in 1901 by Mr. WF Pettigrew one of superintendents at the Furness railway. And He goes into detail about every class of locomotive used by the Furness to that point including the various 2-2-2's used by the furness. I'm also familiar the LB&SC's batch of 2-2-2 tanks as Craven designed some really quite good looking tank engines when he was in charge, especially the later Stroudley rebuilds of his Egmont class of 2-2-2 tanks. The Irish examples I'm not so familiar with but I don't think I'll be able to model them unfortunately as my layout is standard gauge.

Hello everyone I'm currently on the search for a suitable 2-2-2 tank engine to model in 00 gauge for a freelance 19th century themed layout I have in mind. Something similar to the relatively modern looking 2-2-2t's built for Pembroke & Tenby railway. I've put an image below fictional 2-2-2t I found on the web, I really hope I might be able to find a similar looking real life prototype, as it is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm really fond of it's outside frame and cylinders. The closest real life prototype I've been able to find is a 2-2-2t built for the Caledonian railway, although unfortunately I'm unable to find any further information about it.

Hello everybody, I'm doing a bit of research on some of the tank engines built by the Avonside Engine Company. I'm trying to find out all the standard industrial designs they built. Engines that could be ordered straight off a catalog, like with Peckett and Sons and Andrew Barclay. So far I've been able to find out two of their standard designs, the B3 and B4, both 6-wheeled saddle tank designs. I've tried finding a catalog by Avonside but to no avail. Would anyone be able to provide me with some info on some of their standard designs or even point me towards to an Avonside catalog? All the best Steve

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Where have you looked so far? (Apart from your other topic on these engines?)

 

What does the Oakwood Press book say?

 

NRM has a collection of Sharp, Stewart material as do Glasgow University Archive Services, according to a search of The National Archives catalogue.

Unfortunately I have none of those books, but I have ordered the book you've just recommended above. I also have contacted the NRM but again unfortunately haven't received a response yet. Thank you for all the help.

Hello everybody, I'm doing a bit of research on the Manchester and Milford Railway 2-4-2s Plynlimmon and Cader Idris, supplied by Sharp Stewart. I'm looking for things such as cylinder diameter and stroke, driver diameter, boiler pressure, grate area, driver wheelbase, and total wheelbase, and other technical specifications.

1 hour ago, Quarryscapes said:

The M&M 2-4-2Ts were both individual designs, neither related directly to the standard 2-4-0 tender locos. The closest relatives to the Furness conversions were Cambrian Raiways conversions of two of their 2-4-0 tender locos into side tanks for use as railmotors. 

Thank you, I've been trying to find out if Manchester and Milford 2-4-2 were related to the Furness railway J1s.

I've done a bit more research on the subject, and it appears Sharp Stewart supplied some similar 2-4-2s to the Manchester and Milford Railway. Now the question is if the 2-4-2's supplied to the Manchester and Milford Railway are of the same design as the Furness J1s. This would further affirm that it was Sharp Stewart's standard design.

Hello everybody, I have a question that has been lingering at the back of my mind for a long time now. I recall reading that when Furness railway were rebuilding 7 of their E1s into tank engines for branch line service, Sharp Steward supplied parts for this rebuild. Resulting in the J1 tank engines. My question is, if the J1 tank engine design could be ordered by another railway company from Sharp Stewart as one of their standard designs?

Ah! I understand thank you!