Gordieb01

On 10/10/2023 at 07:59, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Seems so obvious, but - as one of the LMS illuminati observed decades past - the LMS interest is dominated by the sudden outbreak of adequate traction following Stanier's appointment. And worse yet, all but the best layouts by dedicated scratch and kit builders failed to represent the still dominant quantity of pre-Stanier design traction which was in service to the end of the LMS' existence.

Yes as a modeler of the early 1930s, the lack of pre Stanier variety is frustrating.   The recent Improved Precedent was a welcome addition, (lovely model),  and we have had the Coal Tank and the L&Y 2-4-2 but vast swathes of LNRW and other Midland engines that had lasted at least to after WW2 have been ignored not to mention other companies and of course the carriages and the huge array of pre grouping goods wagons that lasted well into the Big Four Era.

While I'm sure Rapido will do a brilliant job on these wagons,  I'd have preferred to see a version of the GC MAC N 20T wagon.  These may

not have lasted through to BR days, but would suit my period of the late 20s and early 30s better.    Still a Lowmac is a Lowmac so I'm sure they will be popular. 

Personally if a new GWR prototype was to be produced in 4mm,  I'll like to see a 3232 class 2-4-0,  lovely engines,  who cares if

they didn't make it to Nationalization?    Otherwise one of the inherited South Wales 0-6-2's from the Rhymney or Taff Vale would be an

interesting alternative to the 56xx especially those who model that area.

I am aware that  there are suppliers who do white metal and lazer cut GWR station nameboards, for instance Gaugemaster,  Osborne Models, PD Marsh and one or two others.  But does any of these suppliers provide an option for the large size of board like the one here at High Wycombe which gives the options for 3 lines of text at a Junction station.   I'm looking for 4mm examples for my layout.

22 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Good stuff, but an unfortunate choice of number. 4525 never received curved dropdown sections in the footplate.

 

Miss Prism,  I actually checked online the 45xx number sequence before I did this but as I already had in my spares the unused plates for 4525, I chose to add them anyway.   When you look at the loco from above when its running on my layout its extremely hard to actually tell if the loco has curved or straight section drop plates,  or at least it is with my eyesight!  As I live in New Zealand it would have taken me weeks to order etched plates from the UK.  They aren't easily obtainable locally.

I'd received through an modelling friend a while back a second hand 45xx Small Prairie (My second example of these nice wee models).   I've been meaning to repaint it for a while from plain BR black with "Cycling Lion" to mid 1930s GWR Green which is my modelling period.   Just got around to it with few days of work.

Process of work, 1.Roughly masked and sprayed first coat of Humbrol 104,  Then had a problem with my spray gun compressor so hand painted a second coat.  2.  Hand Painted smokebox and footplate with a mix of matt black, silver and a dash of red oxide mixed.   Added a similar but slightly darker grey coat to cab roof.  4.  Added new etched "Kings Cross" brand numberplates,  (No.4525).  5.  HMRS transfers x 2 for the mid 30s GWR roundel,  plus No 4525 on headstock. 6. added a painted crew to cab plus picked out some cab details in brass.   Finally dry brushed some track colour to front and rear headstocks and around the back of the bunker and added a lamp to the front left iron. (class K.  ordinary goods or mineral stopping at intermediate stations).    The photos show the process including a contrast with my  other 45xx.

I've also painted the interior floor since I took these photos, and will add some detail interior wise to the end building on the left.,  Seats, passengers an interior door and some noticeboards.

Making some good progress now on my Metcalfe Models wayside station (P0 238).   A really nice feature of this kit is the lazer cut canopy brackets and veranda edging.  I've put on the 

brackets and slightly toned them down with a vallejo thin acrylic wash.   Still to finish the roof, chimneys and a few other features.  But an attractive building and quite a bit of weight in

the building for a card kit.

I'm currently enjoying putting together the GW style Metcalfe wayside station kit in 4mm scale. (PO 0238   I've noticed from other threads on this forum that some modelers with other card kits or

scalescenes use acrylic matt varnish to tone down the shine of the card finish on other models.   I presume this has been done with Metcalfe Model buildings as well?

Have others used weathering powders on these buildings also to get an improved finish?

I must say the Wayside station kit seems very well designed and is a really attractive prototype.  Looking foward to seeing the result on my layout.

On 12/07/2022 at 22:51, Compound2632 said:

There's no escaping the fact that if you are modelling the LMS pre-war, a large proportion of your carriages should be in the fully-lined livery. You'll only have a high proportion of carriages in the simplified livery if modelling one of the principal main lines, and then only the expresses, which would be where the new PIII carriages were concentrated. For other carriages, you could employ @BR60103's formula and have one-seventh of your pre-1934 carriages in simplified livery for every year after 1934 that your model is set. However, like Jason, I'd be wary of this rule. Consider that the LNWR made the largest contribution to the LMS's carriage fleet in 1923, including many 57 ft elliptical-roof corridor carriages that were operationally identical to their standard PI equivalents. (LMS PI carriages were Midland in appearance and many details but pure LNWR in interior layout - it was the operating people who called the tune on this and with the LNWR being the dominant constituent on the passenger side of the business, it was the Western Division's wants and needs that dominated.) Photographic evidence is that ex-LNWR carriages, at least on the principal trains, the ones that got photographed, went into crimson lake quite quickly - within no more than a couple of years of the grouping. If one applies the seven-year rule-of-thumb, that would mean next repainting around 1930-1932, still fully lined, and then possibly into simplified livery just before the war, by which time they would be between 18 and 30 years old. But apply a good pinch of salt to taste.

 

Train photos from the 1930s are next to useless for distinguishing between full and simplified livery on panelled carriages.

Yes since I posted this query I'd more or less come to that conclusion myself.  No getting away from the fully lined coaches for my chosen period.  It does look nice just time consuming to apply!

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

If you consider the majority would have been repainted into LMS livery not long after Grouping (say 1923 until 1928) then I would assume most would be due a repaint by 1934 anyway. Some would be on their second repaint.

 

I would always take the "six/seven year rule" with a tiny pinch of salt, but it's a useful guide. If they were in very good condition they would just be revarnished or touched up whilst some other coaches might have been in terrible condition and needed repairs and repainting well before the seven years were up.

 

I would say the Caledonian Railway Balerno stock would be quite typical of pre grouping stock during LMS days and they did get the simplified livery.

 

http://www.caleycoaches.co.uk/assets/pdfs/balernoPn.pdf

 

 

Jason

Thank you for that information, most interesting PDF on the Caley Coaches...

The London, MIdland and Scottish Railway changed their coach livery in the early 1930s (1934?) from fully lined around the windows and doors to the more simplified horizontal stripes under

the cantrail of the roof and just below the windows.    My question is what would have been the process for repainting pre-grouping (Midland and LNWR) stock at this time as these coaches would

have been entering their final years in traffic.   Would these have remained in fully lined condition slowly deteriorating,  been repainted in the new simplified lining or perhaps been given a coat of plain unlined Crimson Lake?  I have a number of Ratio Midland and LNWR coaches which i'd like to finish painting for the mid 1930s period.

A wee bit more progress on the horsebox.  The Grooms compartment wall soldered in and the recessed planking sheets behind the 4 side openings were glued in on the suggestion of the Kit makers.

I hadn't made up a Brass Kit for a few years despite several sitting in my cupboard.     Thought I needed to get back into it so decided to have a go at this GCR Horsebox.  For some

reason I always like Horsebox wagons they have a lot of character and there were so many different versions in the UK at least in the Pre Grouping era.

Starting off with the etched sheet, I separated the two sides and floor.

Punched out a number of half etched bolt heads on the sides first.  Then it was to solder in 20 small pieces of wire on the half etched lines under the Grooms compartment doors.

This I must say was some of the fiddliest bit of soldering I've ever had to do as each bit of wire was only about 6 to 8mm long!  One or two slight cock ups with needed unsoldering. Not perfect 

but once cleaned and painted I think they'll be alright.

Then it was fold up the sides and bend the roof supports at the top.  Finally where I have got to at the moment separate the two ends and tack solder to the sides.

I originally started this thread back in March prior to the RM Web outage during the migration to the new host.   In the meantime I had finished the project and repainted and weathered my modified 8750 class pannier.   The first two pictures show the process of hacking away the topfeed and pipework on the tank tops and the final two show the modified Pannier painted and weathered next to another old Bachmann body of a 57xx with the topfeed still in place for comparison.   

The hardest bit for me was sanding smooth the top of the boiler between the two tank fillers after filling the gap where the Top Feed was. I cut of and replaced later the tank vent pipes but wasn't game to remove the fillers themselves.   Eventually got an acceptable finish with a bit of weathering powder and an extra layer of paint around this part of the boiler top.

I had planned to use full "Great Western" lettering on the Tank sides but decided to go with the Shirt button insignia as the majority of the 8750 class would have received this from 1934 onwards.   Only one other of my GWR models has the Shirt button anyway so its a bit different.   Reasonably pleased with the result and the loco runs very well.

7 hours ago, Oil-burner said:

Have you seen WM136 Signal Box Ventilators from Phoenix Precision?  They look similar. ABS used to do a nice clean set as well but it may be some time yet before they re-surface.

Yes thats exactly what I'm looking for.   Thank you very much,    I'll send them an email.   Excellent.

2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Can't help I'm afraid - but it might help others if we knew what scale you're working in ..................... 4mm at a guess - but other scales are available, I believe !

Yes the box and my layout is indeed 4mm scale.

Its great to see RM Web back again after its absence while it was migrated to the new host.   About 20 years ago I scatch built myself a Great Western Railway standard hip roofed signal box using the plans in the superb Adrian Vaughan book "A Pictorial Record of Great Western Architecture".   I was very pleased with the end result.

At the time I didn't have a layout to use it so was just on display in a cabinet.  Years later having bought a new house a couple of years ago I am in the process of building a 1930's era GWR/LMS layout.

The signal box is now needed (probably need several really).   After being in storage through a couple of house shifts, the base and staircase still look good.  However the roof has sustained minor damage in storage.   Missing are the two prominent metal ventilators from the roof that 'I think' I made out of a circular piece of dowel.   These were a prominent feature of GWR boxes but fairly tricky to make.

Does anyone have experience of making or producing these ventilators themselves?  Or do any of the kit manufacturers sell these separately?  

Decided to take a deep breath and start the process of cutting away the Top feed and associated tank top piping on my Bachmann Pannier to bring it back to a 1930s condition.

Here are a couple of photos of the initial progress.  Just cutting here with the new chisel blade.  No cleaning up and sanding smooth done yet.  I discovered that the Top Feed itself

had a hollow slot inside which annoyingly goes down to beneath the boiler top so a bit of fill is required here and then a futher sand down.    Slightly stupidly I'd already put on one coat

of Great Western standard green before I decided to do this!   Never mind I like painting models.   I'll post further photos after the top feed and other pipe are removed and when everything 

is sanded smooth.

18 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

The first batch (at least most of them) of the 8750 appeared with GREAT WESTERN insignia .

 

 

The Bachmann topfeed and its piping needs removal for a 1930s appearance. There will be a bunch of threads here mentioning the removal.

 

Thank you very much for that information.  The other information on the various panniers from the GWR.org website also most useful

Cheers from a sunny day in Christchurch New Zealand.

I'm currently backdating my Bachmann BR black liveried 8750 pannier back to GWR 1930s livery.   As this class was introduced in 1933,  I presume they came into traffic with the 

"Shirt button" totem on the side tanks instead of "Great Western" in full?        Or did the first batches of the class enter service with the full name before the change from 1934?

Apart from the company branding is there anything on the BR version of the pannier that should be removed or altered for the 1930s period? 

Any suggestions welcomed.

On 08/02/2022 at 03:09, eastglosmog said:

I've had a look at a few photographs of Abergavenney Junction (LNWR Heads of the Valleys line junction with the GWR Pontypool Hereford line).  Running in boards only appear to state Abergavenney Junction, no mention of where you might get to if you changed there. (Some places like Merthyr Tydfil could be reached by either route.)

Thank you, most useful considering those are the two companies lines that I am creating in 4mm although in a fictional setting.

A query please, regarding running in or station name boards at inter company Junctions.   I am specifically asking about the Big Four era but could also I guess apply to Pre-Grouping times.

Where a line from one company met another at a single station did the running in board generally mention the other company?  I am modelling a fictitious GWR double track mainline with a small junction station where a single line LMS (ex LNWR) branch meets at a cross platform junction.   Would the running in board have read "station name" and then something like "change here for LM&S Rlwy"?     I have seen pictures of similar situations with this kind of wording but was this the general rule for station boards where one company met another company in pre- British Railways days ? Did this also apply to the stations of other big four companies,  Southern and LNER?

I only got my LMS black version in the post last week as I live in NZ and international orders were sent after Christmas.    Ran it in on my layout tonight for 30 mins in the forward direction and ran beautifully.   Only issue was front of tender derailing on a dodgy track joint.  With a bit of packing that was cured and the loco ran fine.  Haven't done the reverse running in yet but ran it round my large oval twice tender first without any issues whatever.   Very pleased so far.

That is really wonderful,   The roof is a work of art.