Dubaimike

The Pen & Sword website shows a book by Tony on the Class 22s, to be published at the end of April. It's also available on Amazon UK, along with a follow up volume which is due in July.

I have it on order. Looking forward to reading it.

Well, I was guessing when I wrote the post above, but a book by Tony  on the Class 15/16s has now appeared on both the Pen & Sword and Book Depository websites, for publication in October.

Book Depository also advertise one on the Class 14s; publication in 2022.

I'll be ordering these two as I've found the previous three very interesting. I'm still reading and enjoying the one on the Claytons. In the past most of what I've read on the NBL class 21/29s, the Metrovicks and the Claytons could be summed up as "they were unreliable".  I hadn't previously seen any author give an explanation of why this was, and what was done to try and fix things, as Tony does.

Thanks Airnimal.  No, I don't think the local library has that one. However I lived around that line until I was 18, so buying the book is tempting.

Thanks Gents. I've done the usual searches but I haven't come up with any pictures of the railway in use. It was indeed a dispersed site but the railway served (I think) only the largest of the separate parts. The junction with the LMS/BR was on the east side of the line, south of the Stanley Road overbridge.

That's great Nick, much appreciated.

I'll have a look at the website, but I can immediately see the loco shed I referred to!

Thanks

Mike

In the 1970s I lived near the site of RAF Handforth, (61 maintenance unit) in Cheshire, and visited frequently. Although completely abandoned by then, there were many remains of a large internal railway system, including much track and a two road loco shed. The site had been served by a connection to the Manchester-Crewe line between Cheadle Hulme and Handforth stations.

I'd really like to know more about this railway system. Can anyone point me to  any references such as a track diagram and/or  photographs of the railway at work?

Many thanks in advance.

Mike 

I received my copy today.  As the previous poster said there's an awful lot to take in, but my initial impression is that it's superb. Congratulations Tony!

Can we look forward to further books, maybe one on the Class 15s & 16s?

The Pen & Sword website says 30th May now.

Publication date has been pushed back to 30th April on the Pen & Sword website.

I have it on order. If it is up to the same standard as the class 21/29 book it will be fascinating.

I found the class 21/29 book excellent, and am now part way through reading the Co-Bo volume. I'm finding this one very interesting too.

On 4 July 2020 at 09:39, uax6 said:

 

Advance copy? The release date that amazon have is the 30th of sept...

 

Andy G

The Pen & Sword website says 30th July.

10 hours ago, 26power said:

 

No problem, it was all pretty fresh in my mind.  I would be interested in the same issues as yourself.  

 

Useful to know that the recent 21/29 book does cover this as I haven't got it, yet.  I think both the page count and price of it are substantially more than the Clayton one?  The author of the Clayton book has obviously gone to some trouble to find information, e.g trips to National Archive, Kew  and from Clayton's.  Presumably just different individual approaches by both publishers and authors.  Regardless, I thank them for the time expended and putting their research into print.

 

I don't remember any mentions!

Yes the 21/29 book is about 290 pages with a RRP of GBP40, although available for significantly less even from the publishers. Well worth it in my view.

2 hours ago, 26power said:

Funnily enough I just read my copy earlier this week, having had it for about three years and only getting part way through it at the time of receiving it. 

 

To try and answer your questions, there is very limited information about problems, other than the usual general comments about unreliability, e.g. no input from maintenance staff, operating staff etc. and no information on availability figures.  No coverage of what the mechanical issues with them were, even those requiring early rectification, or whether depots started to get on top of them. 

 

There are a few titbits.  One caption of one at St Rollox says "This works especially did wonders with the troublesome Claytons ..." but doesn't expand on what that work was.  There is also a description in one caption of the small door immediately in front of the cab (to the main generator compartment)  being left open by some drivers to increase ventilation because the filters in these doors clogged before they were due for scheduled renewal.  Get the feeling the author maybe knows more but hasn't covered it all!

 

There are three pages from a Driver's Assistant about their operation at Barrow Hill. 

 

There is a list of "Works visits", partly based on Engine History Cards and Engine Record Cards but the author advises these are thin on the ground.

 

There are plenty of photographs, mainly in black and white and reproduced at a decent size - often two images/page, sometimes three but the latter are still a reasonable size.  A lot of loco portrait type images but also a good few on various workings, including a few sets of images of one working.  Quality of them is generally good, if not excellent.  A smaller selection of colour images when in service.  Approximately 24, 5 of which are in blue livery.  The latter not my era but they are a pretty disappointing selection.  Also about 30 in colour of it in preservation - a set of detail images.

 

Unfortunately no overall potted history by loco, like in at least some of "The book of .." series for some steam classes.  A lot of the information is probably in here, just not set out by individual loco for all aspects.  There is a list of allocations, loco by loco.  The livery information in particular seems pretty limited, but that might just not be available.

 

Also missing is any explanation of why the design was developed or its context and why it was just by Clayton.  e.g. did the BTC put out a brief to more than just one Company.

 

A few minor gripes.  The author has obviously identified how to distinguish which end is No. 1 end, as there is reference to which end is leading in a few of the photo captions but he doesn't explicitly explain it nor is it indicated on the two drawings included - General Arrangements from Clayton's, one showing interior detail.  I did work it out from the text describing what end some equipment (exhausters?) in the boxes beside the cab was at but couldn't find it again when I looked just now.  Also, a proof read should have easily sorted out a few typo type issues and poorly structured listings.

 

From a modeller's perspective probably has all you need.  From a BR diesel history perspective it seems somewhat lacking.  Is anyone aware of any coverage of issues in, say a "class history" in a magazine, e.g, Railway Magazine or Railways illustrated?

 

Cover price was £26.99 when published in 2016 although I think I have seen it discounted on some stands at model railway exhibitions.  Mine was a Christmas gift but overall I think I would have still bought it at full price for myself, given a long standing interest in the class - I managed to get an MTK kit of one up and running in OO about forty years ago!

 

Hope this is of assistance.  BTW, my copy doesn't have the cover typo!

Many thanks for the detailed reply. I'll have to think about whether to get a copy. What interests me most in the case of the short-lived diesel classes is why they were unreliable and what was done to try and improve things. It sounds like there may not be much new in this one. Maybe Pen & Sword will do a volume on the Claytons in the same vein as their class 21/29 book, which gives a lot of detail on problems in service.

Thanks Chard. One to get to absorb during lockdown then.

Is there any text about their service history and problems or is it all pictures? The spelling howler on the cover has put me off buying it so far.

I received a copy for Christmas, I think it's excellent. Lots of detail and some fascinating photos which were new to me. Congratulations to the author.

Are the class 14 and class 22 sound effects in this video authentic? I ask because I'm sure the sound which accompanies the class 37 leaving the Dean Forest is of a class 25.

Regarding the traction that visited Reddish. Obviously 76s and 506s were a permanent fixture with it being their home depot, along with EM2s up until 1968.

Class 24s/25s, 40s and 47s were also extremely common there too.

 

Going off photographs, the following were also present from time to time:

 

08s (in for maintenance rather than pilot duties, these tended to be done with 76s rather than a borrowed Jocko. Even after withdrawal, 76015, 76040 and possibly others have been noted).

 

Co-Bos and Midland Pullman sets were maintained there for a time in the 1960s.

 

I've seen at least one photo each of a class 37 and a class 50 there.

 

Class 45s were occasional visitors, especially towards the end.

 

Class 87s (!) apparently every loco visited for power pack mods, these required the use of an overhead crane. According to form, Crewe Works didn't have capacity as it was busy with other work.

I do have an emailed photo of 87023 (named) outside the main shed, but don't know who took it thus cannot post it here.

 

 

Blue Square DMUs of classes 104, 108 and even 120.

 

304s and Bury 504s were also common visitors, presumably for the wheel lathe.

 

Merseyrail 502s/503s also went to RS from time to time (again, tyre turning?)

 

I think it was Charlie Petty of this parish, who said that Glasgow AM3s (303s) visited in the 1960s, for repaints.

 

So, clearly there was a lot more variety there than is commonly assumed.

 

Now I'm wondering about what other locos and units went there over the years.

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the Departmental Claytons, which worked out of Longsight for a time may have attended.

 

I wonder if a class 56 ever went there? I certainly saw one undergoing exam in Longsight shed in 1984 (after the Reddish closure), which was unusual in itself.

 

Class 81-86 must surely have visited on rare occasions for the wheel lathe?

 

And perhaps 123/124 Trans-Pennine sets.

 

What about 310s, and thinking about it, I wonder if any 306s visited for component recovery for 506s, prior to breaking up at Horwich Works just down the road.

 

Clutching at straws now, but what about 10000/10001? If for no other reason than the fact that they shared similar bogies to the EM2s.

 

I'm surprised I've never seen any shots of the old DC Altrincham sets on there, surely as Manchester Area EMUs they must have visited on occasion, bearing in mind other 'foreign' Manchester EMUs did, as well as the Liverpool sets.

 

If anyone can assist here, I'd be very grateful and especially so if there are any photos.

 

Cheers

E3109

On Sundays in the mid 70s I regularly used to ride my bike to Reddish. I was always given permission to go round the shed and I don't think I ever saw anything move, except on the 1973 open day.

The only loco classes I saw were 24, 25, 40 and 76, again apart from at the open day. Class 506 EMUs were regulars of course, I'm not sure if I saw any other types. The Longsight class 24s were stored there for a long time before and after withdrawal and these included a couple of interesting examples in 24005, which was originally  D5000, and 24021, which carried the BR lion symbol on its' blue livery to the end.

I'd like to share an "if only" moment from one Sunday in 1975 when I was delighted to find 40171 on the depot. This was one of a handful of class 40s still in green livery at the time. It was outside the shed, perfectly posed in the sun to show off the terrible condition of the paint, which was worn away to the red undercoat in many places. I took lots of pictures, then moved into the shed building where I found 25043, the only remaining green class 25, was there as well, again well placed for pictures. This was amazing luck and multiple frames were exposed on it. 

So what happened? The slides came back from processing to show the budget conscious 15 year old why some "own brand" films were so cheap. With dreadful colour balance and totally unusable, they all went in the bin. An unfortunate lesson in why cheap is not always good. I only used Kodachrome from then on, but of course I never encountered these locos again. At least I did get good Kodachrome shots of the two class 24s I mention on a later visit.

Thanks for bringing back memories of Reddish and I confirm that in the 1970s there was still a painted notice on an external wall of the depot saying "Pullman Oil Only"!

Cheers

Mike

Oh, OK. I must see if I can get one. I remember the painted colour illustrations were quite good, but maybe that was because I was about 6.

Anyway, thanks for starting the thread, I'd forgotten the book entirely until you did.

I remember this too. I think the children travelled around the UK with their father, who explained aspects of railway working to them as they did.

I recall the boy saying he wanted to see "one of those new engines that runs on oil" and the girl being able to list the names of the A3s!

But I don't remember the title!

That's pretty conclusive! Thanks Brian

Are you sure about 6339 at SPM in Oct 71 Brian? It was still officially in traffic then.

Regards

Mike

I've just been dipping into the "Book of the Warships" and the piece on D870 got me thinking. Maybe the collected hydraulic knowledge on this forum can help with some info.

D870 was intended to be fitted with ETH, although in the end it wasn't.

If it had been:

1. How would the electrical supply have been produced? The BOTW mentions updated engines, but a pretty substantial generator would have been needed surely. Where would it have gone?

2. This was in 1961, did BR have any ETH diesels at the time. If not, why experiment with a DH? Wouldn't a DE be much simpler?

3. Was there any ETH fitted coaching stock at the time? Maybe the WCML electric hauled stock?

At the end of its life D870 was sent to Derby RTC for experiments with gas-turbine hydraulic propulsion, but was found to be unsuitable because of collision damage:

1. So what happened then? Was the idea abandoned?

2. Why was D870 chosen, given the number of undamaged withdrawn Warships around at the time?

I'll be very interested in any info that throws any light on the above.

Cheers

Mike