73080

10am - 4.30pm 20 tables of dealers. Kidderminster Railway Museum photograph collection on display and copies available. Free admission. The Museum is adjacent to the platforms at Kidderminster Severn Valley Railway Station. SVR car park is to rear. At Kidderminster Railway Museum Station Approach Comberton Hill Kidderminster DY10 1QX Tel: 01562 825316 Email: photographs@krm.org.uk

I have a photo by D J Aston (son of Jim Aston) taken at Barry on 16.03.68 of W55026 in BFYE - it is displaying 'PENARTH' on its destination blind.

Further to my post #665: The D600s appear to have been making at least occasional appearances on the Cornish Riviera Express east of Plymouth as late as 1962. 'The Book of the Warships' by Irwell Press has a photo of D601 on the down CRE at Exeter dated 1.2.62. The caption also states that the D600s were restricted to operating west of Newton Abbot from the beginning of the Summer 1962 service.

A few examples of photographs in Modern Locomotives Illustrated No.219 of D600s on named trains: Cornish Riviera Express: D600 - Saltash - mid 58 D600 - Teignmouth - 2.9.58 D600 - Plymouth westbound - Summer 59 D601 - Teignmouth - 2.9.58 Royal Dutchy: D600 - West Drayton - 8.11.58 D601 - Paddington - 8.5.59 Torbay Express: D603 - Paignton - July 1959 In addition I have an Earley photo (not attached for copyright reasons) of D602 in Sonning Cutting on 'The Mayflower' dated July 1959. The D600s were clearly trusted with prestige expresses at least until Summer 1959, but when the D800s became available in quantity, that was when they were relegated to lesser trains.

Severn Mill Nameplates supply only 7mm scale plates. Chris's 4mm range was sold to some-one else together with the 'CGW' name a long time ago.

The Ivo Peters photo of 46251 at Swindon Shed shows the loco with 'RCTS The East Midlander' headboard, which would date it as 9 May 1964. The very clean Castle to it's left is 7022, which presumably was the Swindon standby loco for the Ian Allan 'High Speed Special' which took place on the same date. I have a T.J. Edgington photo of 46237 at Birmingham Snow Hill (not displayed for copyright reasons). It is dated 28 April 1955 and labelled as 46237 on the 9.10 Paddington - Birkenhead. 46237 has the standard WR reporting numbers on the smokebox door (180). The train formation appears to be entirely ex-GWR stock. There is no sign of any dynanometer car, so 46237 appears to have been used on 'ordinary' expresses as part of the testing programme.

In 1968, one of the last regular steam hauled passenger trains was the 12.44 Preston - Blackpool South 'express'. It was a short train conveying the Blackpool portion of an express from Euston, and at that time was hauled by a Black 5. I timed it half a dozen times, and it would generally only slightly exceed 60mph for a short distance. After acceleration from start most of the normal running speed was in the mid to high 50s mph. Arrival at Blackpool South was normally on time, so the timetable didn't require any faster running. Other than on the principal main lines, fast steam hauled passenger trains would rarely run much faster than 60mph, unless there was a late running train needing to make up lost time.

32-650DS - D3 'Skiddaw' in BR Green with DCC sound ?

Please will you clarify the exact type of small yellow panel that will appear on the production models. Post #337 and the Little Loco Company website show a syp with curved corners, whereas post #343 shows squared off-corners. The top corners of class 15 small yellow warning panels vary considerably in 1960s photos, so anybody wishing to model such a loco is strongly advised to find a photo with the right corners before selecting a prototype loco number. The following is a very rough guide based on photographs of at least 80% of the class members with small yellow panels: Squared-off top corners (same as post #343) - I have only been able to find photos of one loco with this type of syp - D8214 in July 1967 and August 1969. Curved top corners - quarter of circle, approximately same radius as adjacent marker light cover (same as post #337) - this appears to be typical of the majority of the class including D8233 in preservation. There appears to be significant variation around this type with some locos having slightly smaller radius curves and others having slightly larger radius curves. To many modellers, these variations may be insignificant. Examples of other variations include photos of class 15s with very small radius quarter-circles (D8224) and with a larger radius circle chord (i.e. not a full quarter circle) - D8216.

I write as some-one who declined to purchase the first two versions of the K1 due to distorted running plates, but I have now purchased 62065. All the first and second issue K1 models that I have inspected, have had running plates that were noticeably not straight when viewed side-on. The second issue models were distinctly better than the first, but the running plates still looked bent at normal viewing distances. I carefully inspected a model of 62065 before purchase, and because it was satisfactory my comments are based on a sample of one, so I cannot state whether my comments apply to all third issue models. Side on, both running plates of 62065 looked straight at first examination. I then placed a ruler about 1mm below each running plate and they still looked straight. However, when the running plates were viewed from the cab at a very oblique angle, it was possible to see a very slight distortion, slightly upwards on one side and slightly downwards on the other. That said, normal viewing of the model gives the impression of perfectly straight running plates. Personally, I have preferred to pay more for a slightly discounted third issue 62065 from a shop where it could be inspected and found to be satisfactory, rather than take a gamble on a heavily discounted second issue 62064 by mail order.

Web page states 1:76 scale (= 4mm).

I note from the Little Loco Company website that the decorated version of D8233 is in plain green without warning panels. Will the Liverpool Street Pilot decorated version have warning panels or not ?

D3045 - does anybody know when it was painted into blue livery, or visited works c 1966/67 ? My own contemporary spotting notes indicate that D3045 was in blue livery at Nine Elms MPD on 22 April 1967, whilst steam was still working on the Southern Region.

Is Hornby actually proposing a brown livery for the BR liveried coke wagons ? If so, is that correct ? The model coke wagons appear to be unfitted, and my understanding is that unfitted wagons in the pre-TOPS era were always grey. Were the coke wagons an exception ?

Whilst basically agreeing with the above post by Swindon 123 (# 330), from a trawl of photos I would make the additional comments. I can find no photographic evidence that one of the offered livery options actually existed (small yellow panel with all over green cab i.e. the cab NOT being duck egg blue). There are some photos with the cab fronts in shadow giving the impression of all over green, which is not the same as evidence that such livery existed. All the photos I have seen where the cab colour can be definitively identified (i.e. D8200/02/03/05/06/07/09/10/12/14/15/16/19/20/22/23/24/32/33/34/36/38/41/42) show a duck egg blue cab. The same applies to all green without warning panel locos and D82xx numbered locos with full yellow end. However, with one possible exception, all of the ADB968xxx numbered locos had all over green body and green solebars (i.e. NO duck egg blue cab). There is one photo where the loco could possibly have a duck egg blue cab, but instead it might have just become very dusty. SOLEBARS The majority of the colour photos of Class 15s that I have seen have dirty solebars that do not enable the colour of the solebar to be determined. In photos where it is possible to determine the solebar colour the following different livery combiations have been observed: Plain green with duck egg blue cab and BLACK solebars: D8215 (May 1961) D8229 (March 1962) Plain green with duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars: D8206 (1962) & D8236 (6 October 1962) Note: I have not found a clear colour photo of a Class 15 taken in the 1950s, though plenty of black and white photos exist. The above evidence does nothing to contradict the suggestion that all Class 15s were originally outshopped with black solebars and these were repainted green subsequently. Green with syp and duck egg blue cab and BLACK solebars: D8216 & D8232 Green with syp and duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars: D8205, D8208 (Stratford twin warning panels - June 1967), D8215 (20 April 1969), D8233 (August 1966) & D8241 (20 March 1968) Green with fye and duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars: D8205 (5 April 1969), D8218 (13 October 1968), D8240 (with BR arrows April 1967). No examples were found of Class 15s with fye and BLACK solebars. If the Little Loco Company wishes to offer all the livery options for the Class 15s (excluding numbers, emblem/arrows and the Stratford twin small warning panels) I would suggest that the syp green with plain green cab be deleted and the options expanded to the following: Green (without warning panel) with duck egg blue cab plus alternatives for black or green solebars Green syp with duck egg blue cab plus alternatives for black or green solebars Green fye with green solebars plus alternatives for duck egg blue cab (for D82xx) or plain green cab (for ADB968xxx).

GREEN SYP MODEL ONLY During the search through photos prior to my post #69, I noticed variations in the size of small yellow panels on the real Class 25/1 locos. I have now analysed these variations, and make the following observations: It is evident that Darlington and Derby Works sent out new locos ex-works with different sizes of yellow panels. In this regard, please note that the syp on the preserved D5185 shown in the photos in post #52 is not correct for any ex-works new Class 25/1. Darlington build (D5176 - 85 and D5223 - 32) The Heljan model appears to be an accurate representation of the syp for a new ex-works Darlington build - i.e. the off-white side body stripe continues across the front of the loco immediately below the yellow panel, with green between the stripe and buffer beam. Derby build (D5186 - D5222) These had a very different arrangement with the syp extending all the way down the front, stopping only immediately above the buffer beam - i.e. the off-white side body stripes stop at the sides of the yellow panel and do NOT continue across the front. There is no green between the bottom of the yellow panel and the buffer beam. Summarising this post and my post #69, anybody wanting a green syp model is faced with the following issues: Model of Darlington build: - representation of small yellow panel correct, but - model has a Derby worksplate - the flattish front of the model is inaccurate for a Darlington build and is more accurate for a Derby build Model of Derby build - has Derby worksplate - has flatish front more typical of Derby built loco, but - yellow panel needs to be repainted so that it extends all the way down to the buffer beams. So which compromise do you accept, or do you decide not to buy the model ?

As I am interesting in purchasing this model but have concerns about the accuracy of the 'flatish' front of the model, I have researched through 1,000+ photos of class 25 locos. The result is that I am beginning to wonder if we are focusing sufficiently on the prototype. The Heljan model is a Class 25/1 not a class 25/0. Hence the appropriate prototypes are only D5176 - D5232. Furthermore, from the Rails of Sheffield website photos, the green syp model appears to have a Derby worksplate. As D5176 - 85 & D5223 - 32 were Darlington built, the appropriate prototypes are further restricted to only the Derby built locos nos. D5186 - D5222 (25036 - 72). Photos of the prototype in the plane of front communicating doors are extremely rare. Having viewed a photo of the preserved D5185 (Darlington built) in this plane, I would agree with some comments that the front of the Heljan model is too flat for a Darlington build. That said, whilst the prototype photos I have viewed are slightly off the exact plane necessary to be definitive, I am being drawn to the conclusion that the Derby-built locos may well have had a significantly flatter front. This would be in agreement with post #52's reference to the flat wooden former at Derby works. Whilst I reserve final judgement until some-one can post photos of the preserved D5207, D5209 or D5218 in the exact plain of the front communication doors, I am 90% certain that the drawings in Modern Locomotives Illustrate show an inaccurately curved front for Derby-built D5186 - D5222. This curvature has been replicated in the Hornby & Bachmann '00' models, which I an tending to believe is more correct for the Darlington built locos. Until such time as contradictory photographic evidence becomes available, I would suggest that the Heljan model is the most accurate representation yet for the Derby-built Class 25/1, and the criticism of a too flat front would only apply if one wanted to model a Darlington-built prototype.

E6007 limited edition sold on ebay this morning for £171.99 + £7.95 postage.

ADDITIONAL MODEL AVAILABLE - E6007 blue syp grey stripe, no BR arrows The Hobby Shop, Faversham are showing this model as being available now. The website states it is a limited addition of 150 models.

LBSCR liveries Although colour photography did not exist in LBSCR Stroudley days (but see below), there are many contemporary b&w and sepia photographic prints made during those days. Whilst these have severe limitations when trying to interpret colours, they usually give a fair representation of lighter and darker shades of the same basic colour. The Terrier tank side panels have sometimes been described as ochre with gold lettering. I have many photos of LBSCR tank engines in original Stroudley livery and the one thing they all have in common is that tank panels are a significantly darker shade than the loco name which appears to be almost white (in black & white shades). This is the reverse on the model, which is evidently in error in this regard. Now to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons. The areas outside the 'yellow' panels on the Dapol models appear to a light olive green with a yellowish tint. This appears to be not dissimilar to the Bluebell Railway's 'Stepney' and some other preserved Terriers. The lbscr.org site supports this livery interpretation to some extent, stating that the borders were dark olive green. But is this correct ? Perhaps some-one can advise how this information was obtained. Evidence contemporary to the LBSCR Stroudley period suggest that the borders were in fact chocolate brown. The January 1900 edition of The Locomotive Magazine included a colour plate of LBSCR 4-4-0 'Bessemer' as built in 1898. The text of the magazine in referring to the colour print states that it "is, we believe, for accuracy and minuteness of detail quite equal to any of its predecessors". This loco was in the Stroudley livery still in use at the time of publication and clearly shows that the borders were chocolate brown. The Locomotive Publishing Co Ltd also published pre-1914 a number of colour postcards of LBSCR locos. I have a few of LBSCR 0-6-2Ts all showing chocolate borders, as well as one of a Terrier ('Denmark') again showing chocolate not olive green borders. Is anybody able to give a pre-1914 source to support the idea that LBSCR Stroudley livery borders were olive green ? Perhaps this is an instance of a mistake in the pre-WW2 days of preservation that has been perpetuated in error ? Accordingly, is the Dapol Terrier in LBSCR livery correct for some preserved locos, but incorrect for the pre-grouping period ?

Besides on Cricklewood - Toton axis, I have photos of original Crostis : 92023 at Rugby Test Plant (undated but 'The Book of the 9Fs' states it was allocated to the Test Plant 21 May 1955, before being loaned to Scottish Region (Carlisle Kingmoor) on 26 November and then allocated to Wellingborough 11 December 1955. 92022 at Derby on outside turntable 26.4.1957

Dapol Collectors Club green E6001 Does anybody know precisely the period during which E6001 carried this livery - i.e. all over green (no grey stripe at bottom of body) with syp ? It seems to be correct for 1962, but when did it cease to carry this livery ? Dated photographs on the internet show: - 11 March 1962 - all over green with syp (i.e. as per proposed model) - ex-works paintwork - (no grey stripe) - 6 October 1962 - ditto - good quality paintwork - August 1968 - all over BLUE with fye Combined volume Ian Allan ABCs have different photos of E6001 (dates refer to the date of SR stock lists): - 9 December 1963 - all over green with syp - 20 July 1964 - green syp with grey stripe at bottom of bodywork and thin white line separating green and grey areas - 20 November 1964 - same as July but different photo In my personal collection I have a photo by F Day of E6001 (not attached for copyright reasons) in green syp and grey stripe as described above, in which the green body paint is showing distinct signs of ageing. From the above, it is clear that whatever livery E6001 may have been ex-works, by 11 March 1962 it had all over green with syp, but by mid-1964 it had acquired a lower bodywork grey stripe with white line between the grey and green paintwork. Can anybody give a more precise date as to when E6001 acquired its grey stripe ?

Looking for an excuse to run one of these models on a Midland lines steam transition layout ? An unusual mid-1960s working of a Stanier Mogul on the Midland lines was on 4th January 1965. 42958 worked a southbound Class 7 mineral train through Chesterfield late morning or early afternoon that day. 42958 was officially re-allocated to 9G (Gorton) week ending 2 January 1965 (from 1F Rugby ?) so maybe it bounced up and down the Midland lines a few times in the process of finding its way to its new depot.

I have no doubt that the DJM Class 71 will at least equal the Hornby version in cosmetic terms. Therefore, if I wanted a model to sit on the shelf, I would probably order the DJM version. So why am I going to order a Hornby Class 71 instead ? DJ has shown that he is a skilled design engineer. I have yet to be convinced that he has skills as a production engineer, and I want my Class 71 to work. In view of quality control concerns, I try to purchase models from a shop where I can test the models first. This year, the first models I tested for Hornby Grange, 'Wincanton' and 2-BIL syp were all perfect. The first 60103 had a wobbly wheel, but the second one was OK and purchased. Hornby success rate 80% - not brilliant, but I don't believe DJM will beat it. There are no DJM models to compare, so in coming to my judgement I have used the Dapol 4mm Classes 22 and 52 as proxies, which I understand were designed by DJM (please correct me if I am wrong). The first Class 22 had the worst wobbly wheels I have ever seen on any manufacturers non-steam locos. Second one tested was OK and purchased. Class 52 - two different batches tested - both had unacceptably wobbly wheels. Hence no purchase, and Heljan models retained. Success rate 25%. The final clincher is that I will be able to test a Hornby Class 71 before purchase, so I will be able to ensure that it works. DJM Class 71 would have to be mail order, and I am not willing to risk it until DJM can show that he knows how to quality control production, and ensure all models are fitted with perfect wheels. For me, Hornby announcing the Class 71 is the best news out of Warley !