Tavy Man

Graham,

 

I am interested in putting together an ACE West of England service, do you know what diagram was used for the 'loose' coaches?

I was hoping the new Bachmann BCK's would be suitable.

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Cheers Geoff

The loose brake composites were built to diagram 2406. Some of these vehicles survived until September 1968 in BR maroon.

The brake composites which ran with semi open brake thirds for the West of England route were built to diagram 2405. These sets stayed together until the end of steam working on the Waterloo - Exeter route in 1964.

Regards

Thanks for all your replies - I've tried to reply to everyone's comments

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your feedback for the starting arms, out of interest do you know any other locations other than Exmouth that had similar signalling or would show these style signals?

 

The branch will disappear not to far past the point work, hence the thought process of not needing or trying to cram in a home.

 

The branch will mainly be worked on the basis of Push Pull rolling stock, with perhaps the odd small freight or normal passenger working. Whether this would then be shunt released from the bay or whether it would work straight into the main platform I am unsure, I had not given to much thought on this. 

 

 

 

 

 

The two upper sidings are just general goods sidings, the siding above the bay will probably have a small goods shed and the most upper road will probably have a few coal staithes and various other unloading facilities. We did hum and har baout trap points when designing, but again, were slightly unsure where these would be needed much like the signalling requirements! The siding next to the station loco release will probably form a cattle dock or somewhere to leave wagons during shunting. The siding to the most bottom right is planned to be a small engine should with a turntable big enough to turn something up the size of a 4-4-0 T3 or T9, and the long siding above it is to store carriages or a part assembled freight train. I hope this perhaps helps and could shed some more light on the signalling required and which sidings could just be operated by ground levers.

 

I like your idea with the advanced started and outer home, this could slim line the operation of the layout and something that we have talked about in the past.

 

And thank you for your comments regarding the curves and design of the layout - Again, carriage sidings is something that was talked about but with the addition of the long head shunt and turntable feared it would make the layout feel cramped and perhaps little is less?

 

 

 

Thank you for them pictures, I've saved a copy for personal use and sure they will come in very useful when finalising the signalling.

 

 

 

1. I should of mentioned that, the pre-grouping will be based on the LSWR.

2. Thank you for that piece of information.

 

Again, thanks for all your comments and look forward to any additional pointers.

Apologies but I haven't any photo's to hand but look up Wadebridge. This station had a 4 arm structure for Up trains each platform had access to the North Cornwall line or the line to Bodmin North.

Regards

That's some really splendid modelling in view. I assume it's O Gauge? 

 

Thanks to all who've made me feel better about the mess I work in. The point is, and it's clear from the posts, 'work' is being done - personal work - personal modelling. 

 

What's also eminently clear is that the readers of this thread are model-makers. 

 

Please, keep it up.

 

It's all your fault really. During the period in ones life when women and such like get in the way, I picked up a magazine, BRILL I think it was, when you reviewed and constructed a then new Crownline Merchant Navy. My leaning towards all things Southern gave me the encouragement to pick up a soldering iron and have a go. I still wince at some of my early attempts but gradually improved thanks to your magazine articles and DVD's. Geoff Holts books on locomotive construction were also a great help when I moved to 7mm scale, as well as joining the Guild. I moved up a scale for no better reason then it's easier to work with.

The coach is a modified CRT kit of a Bullied brake composite which is nearing completion. The M7 comes from the Martin Finney stable.

I'm writing this from my hospital bed as I'm recovering from a minor stroke so can I humbly ask you to continue this thread for as long as you feel able. Reading all the good things people are doing and the good advice contributor's give is the best medicine one can take.

Regards

This post is more of a question for model-makers, if I may? 

 

No matter how hard I try, my work bench always ends up in a state of chaos and a complete mess.

 

work bench.jpg

 

All I've done is just take a snapshot a few minutes ago, and this is my workbench. My question is, does anyone else build models in such chaotic surroundings?

 

Having completed five locos last month, with a sixth on the way (the DJH A2 under construction will be SUGAR PALM), it makes me wonder how many more might be built if the place were not in such a mess.

 

I wish mine would resemble a work bench occassionally, but I fear no modelling would be done..

Regards

I read recently of Lairra being known as "the last outpost of Diesel civilisation" has anyone else seen this or known of Laira being referred to as such?

I have not heard Laira referred to as the "last outpost of Diesel civilisation" before, but I do recall it by the nickname of the "Bermuda Triangle" for reasons that escape me....

Regards

Divided trains use to fall under regulation 20 of the old working of trains on double lines by the absolute block system.If a Signalman decided that bringing the front portion of a divided train to a stand would risk collision, he could signal the driver to carry on by waving a green hand signal slowly from side to side.

This would obviously only apply to a partially or unfitted freight as both portions of a full fitted head would both be brought to a stand fairly sharpish.

Regards

Birmingham Drivers also signed 57's, but this only lasted around a year until Arriva won the XC franchise. I think Plymouth drivers learnt them earlier than Birmingham. It is pretty rare for a voyager to need assistance, and voyagers have a 'back up' braking system, as in they can be converted from an electric brake to a traditional 2 pipe air brake to rescue a failed voyager, 57's were hardly ever used, in the Midlands at least.

 

Any type of loco can rescue a voyager using the adapter coupling carried on every set, but it is quite a laborious process to fit, and only fitters are competent to use it, so is very unlikely that it would be used.

 

Pendolino's have the same ability to convert to a 2 pipe air brake, and can assist a voyager, and vice versa, but for a voyager to rescue a pendo it must have an equal number of vehicles, with the engines operating, i.e. a 4 car voyager can't rescue a 9 car pendo, but a 9 car voyager can.

 

Yes I remember being called out one night to attend a serious failure near Parsons Tunnel which resulted in an emergency evacuation to get the passengers off the stricken Voyager onto a HST which was stopped alongside. The Voyager was rescued by a 37 which was crewed by a Plymouth Driver who still signed them. We were both competent with the adaptor coupling but it was no easy task in those conditions.

Regards

I think in that period the 57/3 were stationed at Newton Abbot for Thunderbird rescues.

Crewed by EWS drivers.

The Virgin 57/3's were crewed by Plymouth Cross Country Drivers who were trained on them for this purpose. Advanced warning of bad weather would result in a Driver bringing one down from Birmingham to be stabled at Exeter or Newton Abbot depending on what needed assistance first.

This all came to an end in November 2008 when Virgin lost the Cross Country franchise. 57 knowledge was subsequently allowed to lapse.

Regards

Only one word to describe Oddingley box.....cute!

 

http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=iGXAKFFi&id=DBA265825E22168A239623E29E4D6B0324A0BA99&thid=OIP.iGXAKFFi1O2-ENcAe7XCYAEsDh&q=oddingley+signal+box&simid=607989473006718945&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0

 

That's progress!

 

Phil

Absolutely and always a friendly wave in my driving days. I hope the people who were working there have been looked after.

Regards

AFAIK all the signalling from Barnt Green south to Aschurch (exclusive) is now controlled by the same panel (BA)

Anyone confirm that?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

Quote from "Rail Engineer":

To the south, the boundary of Saltley PSB was at Barnt Green at the top of the famous Lickey Incline, but this has now been moved further south to Ashchurch, with control of the former Gloucester PSB interlockings areas of Blackwell, Bromsgrove, Stoke Works, Spetchley, Abbotswood and Eckington transferring into the WMSC. This area is controlled from a new Bromsgrove workstation.

Yes I can confirm that. The Bromsgrove Re-Signalling scheme extends from Ashchurch to Five Ways Birmingham and is now under the control of the West Midlands Signalling Centre. This involves full re-signalling between Aschurch and Barnt Green, Relock and control from Barnt Green to Kings Norton, and re-signalling between Kings Norton and Five Ways. All of this is now controlled from the new Bromsgrove Workstation in WMSC. In fact the regional boundary has also moved to Northway Crossing which is just north of Ashchurch.

In short what we have today is going to remain for an awfully long time. In the early days of the Project the passenger TOC's were pushing hard for bi-directional running on the Lickey but unfortunately there was not enough money to finance it.

I should also add that Oddingley Gate Box also closed as part of this Project and has been replaced by barriers.

Regards

When it first opened there was a fairly smooth curve down through the new platform 3 with no connexion to 4, the re-alignment following demolition of the old platforms has meant a smooth curve through 4 and a deviation into 3.

 

It still strikes me as an odd arrangement where I would have expected the up and down mains to curve smoothly through the centre roads (platforms 2 & 3) with the outer faces looping off to platforms 1 & 4 and using those just for the stoppers/Cross City traffic.

As "tavy man" has said only the inner platform faces are to be electrified which means that if for any reason platform 3 is unavailable a Cross City train will use Platform 2 causing through services to deviate through the slower platform 1.

 

Keith

Spot on. That's the problem we are now faced with. Unfortunately the Bromsgrove station Project, Bromsgrove re-signalling, and electrification were managed as three separate projects. The result is a fit for purpose station, new signalling, but inadequate OLE provision. Apart from the non provision of OLE for platform 1 at Bromsgrove, the former Goods only line from Barnt Green to Longbridge has been upgraded to passenger status as part of the scheme, but there is no money to electrify it. Another bottle neck which could and should of been dealt with.

Regards

I suspect there is an undertrack duct between the cable routes running between teh two concrete 'pards' (which presumably have soem sort of access covers?).  However they area lot bigger than the usual kit used for that so they might have a totally different purpose  

 

 

 

If your latter point is the case are the two Down direction signals at the south end of the Up platform fixed reds or is there a trailing crossover to the south of them?  If the latter then it would obviously be possible to reverse a train in the Up platforms (and it might be possible to do so using one or other of the crossovers at the north end once the signalling is in place?

Mike

BA9261 Up Gloucester down direction and BA7623 Up Bromsgrove Loop are both fixed reds with a position light. The only route from these two signals is to the Up Bromsgrove Neck ( Banker siding ). There is no main to main crossover trailing or facing at the south end of the layout.

There are main to main trailing and facing crossovers at the north end of the layout but there is no signalled route to the Down Gloucester from either of the two Up Platforms 1 or 2. BA3614 Up Gloucester and BA7612 Up Bromsgrove Loop are both straight post four aspect signals.

Regards

OK so I didn't read the letter after all. It was just a figment of my imagination.

 

I'll leave it at that.

 

Keith

My friend I don't wish to upset you or anyone else. I am simply trying to tell you that your post regarding letters to Network Rail regarding platforms 3 and 4 is incorrect. We have made our position clear through the Network change process ( probably the letter you have seen ) but this refers to the failure to wire platform 1. This means all northbound trains Including XC services would have to use platform 1 if the preferred Cross City platform is not available. We have also made the point that the failure to deliver a main to main facing crossover at the south of the layout means that northbound trains can't turn back from Bromsgrove should there be a blockage on the Lickey.

Apologies if I'm not making this clear.

Regards

There was a letter from CC to Network Rail, I read it the documentation NR published on line.

IIRC it was about the northbound situation where originally, (maybe it changed later?) the plan was for all through trains to be routed around rather than use the straight through platform.

Concern was that it would slow down through trains about to tackle the incline and cause delay to the schedule.

 

BTW why has the southbound "loop" platform been made the through line with the higher speed when logic suggests is should be the other way round?

 

Keith

I will say it again. The Bromsgrove Station Loop line IS platform 3 with a speed of 40mph entering and departing the platform. It is NOT the main southbound route. The fast line is the Down Gloucester line platform 4 with a speed of 90mph.

Platform 2 is the Up Gloucester with a speed of 90mph. Platform 1 is the Up Bromsgrove Loop with a speed of 30mph. The process for observations, complaints, or compensation payments is a process known as Network Change which Network Rail are mandated to do as part of any infrastructure change which affects all TOC's and FOC's. Our observations concerned the failure to wire platform 1 as I indicated earlier. We also have issues about the omission of a facing main to main crossover at the south end of the station and some other minor performance issues.

The station layout has always been the one I have described above and has not changed since the start of the Project. The main objections to this project were the FOC's who are not happy with the new bank engine arrangements which now involve GSMR and not the plungers, and of course the lack of paths now available to them because of the enhanced Cross City service.

Regards

Oh yes they have.

There was one on the Network rail site at the time of the station upgrade a year or so ago.

 

Keith

Why on earth would WE send letters to Network Rail complaining about being unable to use the "Through Line" as you describe it when the through route is platform 4.....

Yes the plans appear to be that the 3 per hour Longbridge will be extended to Bromsgrove.

The fast lines will not AFAIK be included in this electrification add-on.

Unless it's changed the Cross City trains will use Platform 3 at Bromsgrove meaning through trains are looped via 4.

Cross Country has sent a letter of concern to Network Rail regarding the fact they will not be using the "Through" line.

 

What happens in the future on the Cross City route one can only guess as there are plans to re-open the Camp Hill route to local passenger services and via chord lines at Bordesley access Moor St. Station from both the South and North off the Midland route.

 

Keith

Platform 4 at Bromsgrove is not a loop line it is known as the Down Gloucester with a line speed of 90mph. Platform 3 is known as the Down Bromsgrove Station Loop with a maximum speed of 40mph and will be the preferred Cross City platform.

Cross Country have not sent letters of concern to Network Rail regarding the station layout. The only concern is the lack of OLE on platform 1 the Up Bromsgrove Loop. As only platforms 2 and 3 are being wired, if anything prevents Cross City services using platform 3 then platform 2 the Up Gloucester is the only alternative. This means fast trains will have to use platform 1 with the subsequent delay of the 30mph restriction.

However, it is still hoped that sense will prevail and platform 1 will be wired as well.

Regards

At City Basin Box you would have had pairs on the Bitumen trains from off region?

I was there from 1981 to 1983 Garry. By that time the 02.38 Ellsmere Port was tripped to City Basin from Riverside in two parts by the trip pilot. The train engines came off at Riverside. Although I have known the trip workings to be 31 hauled if for some reason a pilot wasn't available.

Regards

I'm in Davidson House.

Simon

I will look out for you. The chair is having a week off next week. We resume the following Thursday.

Regards

I expect you are right about the Bath Road locos all visiting Devon.

I will use the 1979 Ian Allan Locoshed book as an example of the WR class 31 allocation, which was correct as of November 1978

 

Bath Road allocation:- 31135, 31145, 31154, 31158, 31165, 31170, 31210, 31258, 31294, 31401, 31414, 31416, 31419, 31420, 31421, 31422, 31423, 31424.

Old Oak allocation:- 31117, 31118, 31121, 31124, 31131, 31132, 31136, 31163, 31209, 31213, 31230, 31231, 31241, 31254, 31256, 31257, 31260, 31265, 31273, 31286, 31296, 31304, 31412 , 31413, 31415.

There were numerous transfers between BR and OC during the year as well as transfers in and out of the WR.

 

By the way I think you have a typo for post 482 at Goodrington, 31327 was the highest numbered 31/1,

 

cheers

That's interesting. Looking at the following 31's which passed City Basin Box in May 1983 when I was on duty, there are a few foreign ones.

31117/31285/31231/31210/31156/31216/31139/31170/31228/31304/31149/31128/31151/31325/31296/31121/31187/31161. 31260/31195.

Regards

Ah, I see, you must come around, say hello and have a chat, I'm sat at one of the desks at the end of the corridor from the sighting room!

Simon

I will make sure i do. Which building are you in, the old post office or Davison House. We meet in both as I'm on the Oxford Project as well.

Regards

Out of interest, where did you learn this information from?

 

Simon

I'm on it.

I'd have to check my records, but as I recall, the status before I retired was that the double track would stay, because of the need to be able to cross HSTs there on Summer Saturdays, if nothing else. I also wasn't aware that the 'mini-resignalling' that St Simon is working on (ie. additional IBSs but the boxes stay) called for any changes in the St Blazey signal box control area.

 

So is this something that the 'Asset Managers' in Swindon have put forward recently?

Captain

No need to worry. Despite their attempts the double track layout is staying as it is at present. Phase 2 SSC has just got underway with 2019/20 the target. The red lines that i am sure you remember from the VFM meetings are very much still our red lines.

Regards

These sort of photographs say it all for me. 36 years later and we've gone from a 5 coach local offering 1st and 2nd class accommodation and plenty of luggage and cycle space, to a 143 or a 150 if you are lucky. Ah well that's what they call progress isn't it......

Regards

Looks very scruffy for a loco on Royal duties.

 

Late replacement?

 

Regards

 

Ian

The 31 in the photo has been used to return the train to Newton Abbot from Teigngrace, where it was stabled. The "pretty" train engine would of been on the other end. Top and tail operation was always used on these workings as there was no run round facilities at Teigngrace.

31's were quite common working out of Exeter in the 1970/80's with at least 3 or 4 stabled at Exeter on most days. regular workings were the daily Barnstaple Goods, the Heathfield trip working, and local stopping trains to Paignton & Barnstaple.

They also were booked to work the 02.56 Taunton to Paignton Newspaper train, the 06.15 Plymouth to Old Oak Common Empty Newspaper train and the 05.20 Paddington to Plymouth parcel train in the week as well as the workings already mentioned.

I must admit to having a soft spot for the 31's as they were ideal on these workings. They didn't like the South Devon banks though. I booked on spare at Exeter one day and was asked to work the 07.30 Paddington down to Plymouth as Old Oak had nothing better than a 31/4 to work the train and Laira men didn't know them. With 10 coaches on the speedo was barely at 10mph going over the top. Happy days...

Please keep posting these lovely photographs. Marvellous stuff.

Regards

A handful of early DMU photos from Dad's albums - including one from the family album showing my mother seeing me off at Highbridge, as I return to boarding school in Surrey. I also appear as the gangly youth on the platform at Brixham.

I don't know where or when the view from the DMU was taken as it was in an assorted envelope of negatives. I wondered about the Ledbury area, but really haven't got anything to base that on.

 

221 1962 Beginning of term.jpgBR single diesel railcar Summer 1962.jpgDMU L203 Oxford 9 8 1988.jpgDMU Minehead 3 6 1965.jpgView from a DMU 1960s 4net.jpg

Hi

The first photo was I believe taken at Highbridge GWR station. You can see the ex S&D line crossing on the level ahead of the DMU.

Lovely shots I must say.

Many thanks