JonKing

Well a new loco has arrived on shed - Heljan 58045 in battered mainline grey livery. I have a bit of a soft spot for class 58s as they suddenly started turning up on the Fawley to Tavistock Junction tank train in 1997/1998. During this time me and my Dad used to often walk to an overbridge over the railway line on Rattery bank in the evenings, for some reason I wasn't with my Dad when the first 58 worked the train and I didn't believe him when he told me!. This model has had a bit of a hard life. I first obtained it around 2016 in RF coal livery and started the process of turning it into a mainline grey 58 by removing the sector logos, partially repainting where they had been removed, painting the black doors (inexplicably missed by Heljan etc). New mainline logos were applied and then I turned to the weathering. The weathering was, to be honest, a complete disaster! - for some reason I used black for the staining around the bodyside doors which looked awful (when weathering I never use pure black or white as both colours don't "scale" well). I then tried to hide this with a heavy dusting of frame dirt at which point I stood back, realised it was a total mess and hid it in my spares box!. Fast forward 3 years and I had lost the glazing and door guard rails but decided it was salvageable. Door guards were bought from A1 models (not 100% prototypically correct but the best I could get) and spare glazing from Howes. The body was then coated in modelstrip (the white paste), whilst modelstrip isn't actually any good at stripping factory finishes it is very good in removing enamel and acrylic paints. After leaving in modelstrip for a few days the body was cleaned and all of my previous bodging had removed leaving the factory painted bodyshell. The body was then patch repainted (re-doing the blemishes mentioned earlier where the RF logos had been removed). Weathering was a variety of greys watered down and run into the panel lines then rubbed off, followed by dry brushing RF red on the solebar (where the old RF red shows through on the prototype), hand weathering the underframe with various shades of acrylics and tieing it all together with a fine spray of brake dust.

Hi, No real progress since before the New Year. Whilst I do intend to finish this layout I have been slightly distracted by my existing layout (see Embankment Road thread!). The switches are SPDT rotary switches from a old industrial control panel (similar switches are available on ebay). They wont work tortoise / cobalt point motors on their own and have to be used as an on / off switch powering the coil on a DPDT relay. The output side of the DPDT relay is then wired in exactly the same way as you would if you were using a DPDT switch to operate the point motors (just make sure the DPDT relays are 12v and capable of 1-2 amps, again dirt cheap on ebay). Jon

It should be on my "never-use" list due to past experiences of Humbrol Matt varnish drying white, satin drying gloss etc however due to laziness I have continued using it!. This will be the last time. Thanks for this, very interesting. I have never really got on with acrylic paints finding them difficult to spray and achieve a good coverage, based on the above it seems I should practice a bit more and start moving towards acrylics.

First update for a long time!... As posted elsewhere on rmweb ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136463-bury-interchange-in-4mm/ ) I had started building a layout of Bury Interchange with the intention of dismantling Embankment Road so that the new layout could be installed along the same wall in my office. Bury Interchange had progressed to a point where the control panel was built, the station "throat" trackwork was constructed (albeit not very well!) and the first class 504 unit was complete. I started thinking about building the new baseboards and dismantling Embankment Road when it dawned on me - I was actually quite happy with Embankment Road, it had taken me some time to build and with two young sons and a full time job I really don't have the time (or motivation) to start building another layout. So Embankment Road survives to live another day subject to a few changes. The first change I have made is to add a new turnout giving access from the siding around the back of the shed to the siding in front of the admin block, originally this siding was cosmetic only however adding this turnout improves the layouts operational potential. The track now also extends beyond the back of the shed giving a bigger fiddle yard. Photo below shows the new turnout to the admin block siding:- As a result of the new track / turnout the layout has been rewired and the unreliable (cheap!) DPDT toggle switches controlling the turnouts replaced with SPDT rotary switches acting as On/Off switches to DPDT relays which drive the turnouts. All this is mounted in a new control panel. When considering replacing Embankment Road with Bury Interchange I was very mindful of threads I have read on this forum (and elsewhere) comparing the popularity of TMD layouts to the past popularity of GWR BLTs, this comparison would them sometimes be backed up with some negative views around all TMD layouts being un-prototypical, poorly modelled and an excuse to show off the builders collection of out the box locomotives. (I hasten to add that generally the negative comments don't appear on this forum). It is very hard to argue with the first point as it is beyond doubt that TMD layouts are very popular and are the "new" GWR BLT. To my mind the preponderance of TMD layouts is purely down to the realities of modern life. Modern houses are not large and therefore limited space is available for layouts, consider that if modelled prototypically even a small station such as Bury Interchange would be approximately 8ft long (excluding fiddle yard), its not therefore surprising that people model smaller TMD layouts which will fit is smaller spaces and still enable locomotives to be shuffled up and down. If, like me, you also have a young family and full time job then TMD layouts are even more attractive as they take less time to make operational and are well suited to quick 20 minute operating sessions once the kids have gone to bed. Yes, some TMD layouts can be un-prototypical however I hope Embankment Road has some semblance of the prototype given that I have modelled only the rear area of the TMD and added features such as cosmetic sidings and sidings going "off scene" to give a sense of purpose for the TMD and an indication that it sits within the context of a larger marshalling yard. The layout is also rooted in the late 90s when smaller TMDs / LIPs still existed (a challenge for the modern modeller as nowadays locos are maintained and serviced by a man in a van typically at open air sidings, only returning to the larger Depots such as Toton when they require maintenance). A quick trawl of rmweb will show a number of other TMD layouts which are well modelled with a good prototypical grounding and well modelled stock - certainly not just layouts to display out of the box locos. Im not really sure what I am trying to achieve with the above commentary other than to explain my rationale for building (and keeping!) a TMD layout.

Evening all, hopefully someone can offer me some advice. I resprayed these two Heljan 47s into Freightliner Grey around 18 months ago, painting process was fairly standard - halfords primer, phoenix precision top coat, Humbrol gloss varnish (from a rattle can), transfers, weathering and then all sealed with a coat of Humbrol matt varnish (again from a rattle can). Shortly after completion my second son was born and the locos were stored in a display cabinet in my office. Now that the chaos of having a new born has subsided I am "playing trains" again and decided to retrieve these two from the cabinet for a running session. As you can see from the photos the varnish appears to have yellowed, this isn't noticeable on the dark grey areas but the rail grey is now more like rail beige!. I have decided I cant tolerate this as it just looks plain wrong so the locos have been stripped of glazing etc ready for an appointment with some superstrip and a respray to put them out of their misery. Has anyone had this problem before and can it be rectified without needing a fully respray?. I am blaming the Humbrol varnish however any thoughts on possible alternative causes would be appreciated. (Please bear in mind however, they were definitely rail grey when first painted!). Thanks, Jon

Well despite not posting much on here some progress has been made on the actual layout ... well almost. I have been building some of the key layout parts with the intention that once the baseboards are finished (sometime after Christmas) it will be a case of plugging all the main components together and then starting on the scenics. First up is the control panel, this is housed in a 6mm ply laser cut enclosure.The enclosure is a custom unit designed to suit my requirements, I would have used a off the shelf enclosure however none of them were deep enough to suit the switches I intend to use. Panel fascia is shown below. I wanted to give the panel the feel of a real IFS panel without being a 100% replica. Key to this was using some rather nice SPDT rotary switches I have had knocking around in my garage for some time (the switches are from an old industrial control panel and are rated at 415V hence the size issues mentioned previously). The switches act as simple on/off switches to the coil on 12v DPDT relays which then drive signals and stall point motors. I have also used DPDT relays to introduce logic functions / interlocking between signals, track circuits* and points. This logic will prevent signals being pulled off if routes are not set correctly, track circuits occupied or conflicting routes setup. Signals will also be held at amber if the next is not green etc. I am no electronics expert and I am sure there is a better way to do this which would also resolve some of the short comings of my system (e.g the setup does not prevent points being pulled under trains and whilst signals will revert to red if the track circuit in rear becomes occupied they will revert back to clear once the track circuit clears if the switch has not been turned back to red). Panel internals are shown below, my wiring is not the neatest: (* when I refer to track circuit I am referring to DCC block occupancy detectors) Signal and track circuit indications are repeated on the panel using LEDs in light bezels from the same industrial control panel. Eagle eyed people will notice that amber bezels have been used for the red aspects of the platform starters - when illuminated they are red its just I ran out of red bezels!. I have also started on the station throat trackwork. Photo below shows the 504 posed on the templot plan for scale. This shows how big "real" turnouts are especially considering that I have compressed the throat trackwork by around 20%. Construction has started using C&L components. It should be flat bottomed however I have used bullhead as I find it easier to build.

Craig, Great videos - thanks for sharing. I do intend to add lighting at some point, however as it has taken a couple of months to finish the model I am a bit bored of it now!. Will do a bit more on the layout and come back to the unit to add lighting etc, luckily the Bachmann chassis already have lighting connections and a number of SMT LEDs ready to be cannibalised so adding lighting wont be too much of a challenge. Jon

Goodness, I didn't realise that there would be any interest in these. If I have set it up correctly the bogies are available from here:- https://www.shapeways.com/product/J8QKKHAEX/class-504-trailer-bogies?key=ecb34eed4425411510f19b10efed0b2f Its worth noting that as these are designed to fit the Bachmann pickups other bearings (top hat etc) probably wont work as the bearing holes are oversized. Also, the models include shoe gear and cab steps / life guards (for the cab end bogie). If there is any interest it wont take much to modify the 3d model to exclude the shoe gear and cab steps / life guards. Edit - I should also add they are also fairly expensive for what they are, this is down to the shapeways pricing system. Jon

The 3d printed gresley bogies have arrived and rather pleasingly look the part but also accomodate the Bachmann pickup arrangement. Unfortunately I did have to make a slight alteration to the pivot area as this was undersized on the 3d print, I had also omitted a notch detail on the original Bachmann bogies which prevents them from rotating too far - luckily these mods were very minor. The underframes were also completed using some 3d printed bits and EMU underframe components bought off ebay. The underframe arrangement isn't 100% accurate as its based on photos and a bit of guesswork. Photos of the Gresley bogies and WIP underframes below: The underframes were then painted matt black and weathered. Handrails have been added using 0.3mm wire and multi-working connector cable using 0.5mm wire. Cabs have been glazed using the transparent plastic from a Heljan 47 box cut to size and windscreen wipers added from a spare Southern Pride 304 etch, I have only added wipers to the drivers windows as it appears that most had lost the secondmans side wipers by 1991. The first 504 is now complete and, whilst its a bit rough around the edges, I am very happy with how it has turned out: Next task is to build the turnout arrangement which forms the station throat. The turnouts have been drawn in templot: I intend to build this as a single unit away from the layout. Whilst I have handbuilt turnouts before I have never built a diamond crossing so this is going to be a bit of a learning curve, one big compromise is that I am going to build the turnout using bullhead track components from C&L (the prototype being flat bottomed). I am doing this as most of the parts to build flat bottomed track require soldering and my soldering skills are not that good!, in the scheme of things however I don't think its too much of a compromise....

Progress on the underframe continues albeit slowly. My focus over the last week or so has been glazing the cabs and installing the correct gresley bogies. I obtained some bogie frames for the motor bogies from DC kits which were then grafted onto the Bachmann bogies by cutting away the Bachmann bogie frames and retaining the centre pivot area and pickups. I also obtained some cast frames for the trailer bogies from ebay, these were very good castings however unfortunately I made a bit of a hash trying to use the Bachmann pivot areas and pickups etc resulting in some rather wobbly bogies (predominantly due to the trailer bogies being prototypically shorter than the motor bogies and therefore shorter than the Bachmann bogie units I was trying to fit them to). I had always intended to 3d print the new underframe equipment boxes so decided I would just 3d print the trailer bogies aswell. CAD drawing below showing current progress, the red bits are the existing Bachmann pickups - I have designed the 3d model to (hopefully!) accommodate these. I'm not really keen in knocking up 3d CAD images in the evenings as I use a computer most of the day at work, however it is a necessity where my modelling skills aren't up to certain tasks.

A fair bit of progress has been made over the last week or so, the bodies are now fully painted, lined, weathered and glazed (excluding the cab fronts). Weathering has included a filter coat (diluted matt grey) and general weathering to the door seems / body using the wipe on / wipe off technique to tone down the bright orange and make it look a bit more "used". Whilst not to everyone's taste I have also added grafitti tags using railtec decals, these were fairly important as I want my model to reflect the run down look which was prevalent on the Bury line in July 1991. Air pipes have also been added to both cab ends. My attention has now turned to the underframes which foolishly I thought would be similar to the EPB!. This isn't the case as the 504s had a completely different layout and Gresley bogies, a bit more work required here.

A bit of progress on the 504 - the brown areas and yellow ends have both been sprayed. I am really pleased with the brown area as the joint between the brown and the orange is fairly straight and crisp, much better than I thought I could achieve. Thanks to everyone for their advise on this earlier in the thread as it really paid off. Some touching in is required and the orange area between the cab side windows and yellow warning panel is slightly too large (which I can live with). Next step is to spray the roof on both vehicles, gloss varnish then apply the white lining (which will be a transfer). I can then start weathering and detailing. People will note that this is a thread about my proposed Bury Interchange layout however I have only really talked about the 504!. This is deliberate as I was waiting to see if I could bodge together a half decent 504 before starting the layout. Now that it looks like I will be able to build a passable 504 I will start thinking about the layout.

Thanks for the useful links!. As you say the mast structures didn't reach Bury until closure however they had reached Crumpsall. See photo here

More good advice, I will add BECC vinyl to the shopping list. I did at one point consider basing the model in the Metrolink era which would, as you say give an excuse for some pretty unusual engineers working (including cut down 08s on engineers trains). I have got my eye on some PH designs cut down 08 bodies so a metrolink engineers train may be see occasionally. Of course if I modelled Crumpsall Station it would be perfectly acceptable for the time period for class 504s still to be running but with Metrolink gantries erected and semaphore signalling still in place controlled by Crumpsall box. Maybe a project for another day!. Regards, Jon

Thanks, great advice. I shall go and buy some Maskol and give it a go.

Thanks for the heads up, body kit ordered today - I have a spare Bachmann EPB chassis (power car) which will be perfect for motorising it. I managed to spray the first coat of GMPTE orange this morning before heading off to work (a fairly long day in Greater Manchester and Stoke on Trent which is never ideal on a Friday, particularly given that amount of road works on the M6!). Next task will be to paint the GMPTE tan / brown area. The problem I have is that the bottom of this area is located just above the door bangers (indicated by the black line on the photo below). It needs to be here as moving it will make the livery look odd however having tried to mask this line already the door bangers are so close to the edge they are distorting the masking tape which will affect the "straightness" of the line, its also proving difficult to get the masking tape to bed down properly around the door bangers and door handles which will lead to overspray. Does anyone have any ideas how I can overcome this?. Last resort will be to hand paint this area which would resolve the overspray issue, finish wouldn't be as good although I have hand painted before with marginal success. The only sprayed colour on my Amey tampers (shown elsewhere on RMweb) was the yellow, the rest (blue etc) was hand painted, primarily because I dislike the mess and hassle caused by spraying. Thanks in advance!. Jon

Thanks, its "The Manchester to Bury 'Lecky' Line and the Class 504 EMUs" - I have it already and its a great book. I also have a copy of "Decline of British Railways in Bury and Rossendale" which is also by Andy Coward and a good read also. The issue I have is that I have put some internal bracing in formed of plasticard to give some additional strength to the new cab side joints. Unfortunately I didn't check clearance with the chassis and put it in too low so it now fouls the top of the chassis. It wont be too much of an issue to file away the parts of the chassis which foul the plasticard. Alternatively I could remove the bracing but this runs the risk of weakening the cabside joints resulting in movement and copious amounts of filler falling out!. Unfortunately I didn't keep the DC buffer beams either resulting in the Bachmann buffer beams being set back slightly too far when the body is on the chassis. I have rectified this by cutting off the Bachmann buffer beams and adding a 1mm fillet to the chassis in effect pushing the buffer beams out, photo below: Don't worry about that, its relevant to the topic and I like esoteric EMUs!. If I get the layout finished I can see myself getting one of these and applying "rule 1".

Thanks - good idea, just posted an ad on the wanted section.

Wanted - DC kits class 504 unbuilt, part built or fully assembled. Please PM if you have one.

Gibbo, thanks - I agree the flat crossing would make for a much more interesting model operationally but im afraid I like the GMPTE orange and tan livery too much so slightly outside of my time period. Those L&Y units look great, are they kit or scratch built?. Thanks also for the P4 / EM advise, I may go down the EM route if its a less involved conversion. This will be my first layout in EM or P4 so a bit of a learning curve for me to be honest (I have however hand built track before but in 00-SF). Rich, thanks for your feedback!. A bit more filling and sanding to do on the 504 bodies and they should then be ready for painting (once I can find my small drill bits to drill the handrail holes). I have built a few DC kits in the past and they were easy to put together resulting in a pretty good rendition of the prototype, unfortunately I never made a DC kits 504 unit and am not likely to now as they are out of production. If anyone reading this has a DC kits 504 they would like to part with please let me know

Evening All, I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!. My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991) when the line was only in operation between Bury and Crumpsall, the section between Crumpsall and Manchester having already closed for conversion to Manchester Metrolink. The advantage of modelling Bury Interchange is that it is a fairly compact site which will fit nicely along the 10ft wall I have available in my home office (with a bit of prototype compression!), fiddle yard lengths will be restricted to a 2 car 504 which seemed to be the standard during the last month of operation. Operationally the unusual (for modern standards) pointwork and diamond crossover at the station throat will give some interest, I also intend to build a fully interlocked replica IFS panel based on the one at Hagside Crossing (which controlled Bury Interchange) to control signals and points which will make operation a bit more interesting. Scale wise I intend to go for P4 as I only intend to build 2 class 504s, no idea where I will get the wheels from yet or track parts suitable for flat bottomed rail!. Screen grab from google maps showing the layout area below, worth noting that the ELR over bridge was built after 1991 so wont be included on my layout: Before I started building the layout I wanted to make sure I could knock together a passable representation of a class 504 (the DC kits version no longer being available). Bury without a class 504 would be like a GWR branch line without any GWR stock. Luckily I was able to purchase 2 sets of DC kits 504 cab ends, roof domes and cab sides from ebay recently, which, whilst being in used condition and fairly rough were good enough to enable me to make a start. Having cleaned up the DC kits parts I got a Bachmann EPB model and stripped down all the glazing, separated the bodies from the chassis and removed the roof etc. Then I carefully cut the cab ends off using the leading edge of the cab door as a guide, replacement cab sides were then squared up and glued in place along with cab fronts and roof domes. Picture below pre-priming shows the new bits fitted on the DMBS next to the DTS already in primer:- As would be expected getting a good fit on the parts was very challenging with a lot of filler used to fill gaps and extensive sanding required (the filling and sanding process being undertaken numerous times in some areas!). The roofs were cut to allow the roof domes to be installed and blended in with filler, ribs and electrical conduit were also removed from the Bachmann roofs. Both bodies are now primed and subject to more sanding starting to look the part:- Still a fair bit of work to do on the bodies, particularly the gutter line between the roof dome and Bachmann roof however I am happy with how things are progressing. I haven't even looked at the chassis yet which will need some pretty major surgery just to enable the bodies to fit with the new cab ends. The units will be finished in orange and tan GMPTE livery with significant grafitti tags and a generally worn appearance to suit the last month in operation feel. I am not looking forward to the painting as I don't like spraying and getting the masking to sit as a straight line for the joint between the tan and orange will be a nightmare (the line is just above the door bangers which will distort the masking). I know the prototype and period wont be to everyone's interest however hopefully someone has found this interesting.

Not much progress on the layout recently which is predominantly finished bar a backscene and possible extension board to form a fiddle yard / improve operation (more on this at a later date). In between "playing trains" I have however resprayed a TTG Hornby 31 into engineers dutch liveried 31203 as it was in the late 90s (some may remember this loco working a train of vacuum braked engineers stock along the B&H in 1999 as part of EWS's driver training at the time to keep some drivers competent on vacuum braked stock). I have taken photos at each stage of the respray as I thought some people may find the techniques I use interesting, at this stage I should say that I don't consider there to be a right or wrong way to do anything as its the end result that counts - therefore some of my methods may seem a bit slapdash to people!. First the base loco (a construction liveried Hornby 31 with the headlight in the correct position for 31203) was stripped of all glazing & handrails, the main livery elements (numbers, sub-sector decals etc) were then removed with fine grade wet and dry. As this was going to be a respray I wasn't worried about damaging the underlying paint with the wet and dry - a word or warning however, don't be tempted to use coarse grade sandpaper as this will cause damage that will show through on the finished model. Any livery elements which are not present on the final loco should also be removed otherwise they will show through, fundamentally take time to prepare the loco properly at this stage as bad preparation will lead to disappointing results. I dislike airbrushing - the less I do the better, in order to reduce the amount of airbrushing I considered which parts of the Hornby livery could be re-used on the finished model. A quick check of photographs showed that the yellow ends, black around the cab windows, black cab doors, bodyside grilles and exec dark grey roof matched dutch livery, I carefully masked off these areas to retain the factory finish (its worth noting that its almost impossible for an amateur like me to achieve a finish as good as a factory finish, therefore the more original livery that can be used the better!). Its vital to check all masking carefully as the finished model will only be as good as the masking (a pet hate of mine is wonky lines and rough edges on resprays!). You will note from the photo above that I have removed the cab doors and bodyside grilles as its easier to pop these out and put to one side than mask around them. The model is then sprayed with Halfords white primer, this is where preparation is important - whilst Halfords primer is the best you can get (in my opinion) it will lift tampo printed decals on the model creating a bubbled / rough finish (if you are painting a model that has been painted previously it will also react very badly with enamel paints!!). Once primed the loco is given one last inspection to ensure there are no blemishes, if there are these are rectified. The yellow stripe was then sprayed with warning panel yellow. The yellow stripe on the prototype was very faded in 1999, some may be tempted to replicate this using faded warning panel yellow. I considered this but didn't in the end as I feel the faded shades available do not provide enough colour variation when sprayed as a single block of colour. Once the yellow stripe was grey I masked off ready for application of the grey body colour, you will note that previously I didn't rub down the flint grey upper bodyside stripe from the original livery. This was intentional as its in the same place as the yellow stripe and can be used as a guide for masking, I also used a ruler to measure various set points on the model to ensure the resulting line was straight (I really don't like wonky lines). The railfreight grey bodysides were then sprayed. At this stage its looking very "ex works" and nothing like the battered, tatty, end of life machines I remember. Next step was to fade the paintwork taking care not to create a uniform faded finish, I do this by brush painting on thinned light grey (not white) paint and immediately rubbing the paint off, this is done over a period of time building up layers using several coats to give a patchy faded look. Lets be fair, as shown above the loco looks awful and not very realistic at all - but stay with me!. Next step is to get varying shades of thinned dark grey paint (not black) and brush paint these on around panel lines and down the body sides, as before this paint is almost immediately rubbed off using a vertical motion. This leaves a prototypical streaky finish where exhaust dirt has run off the roof and from grilles down the bodyside, the paint also collects in panel lines as per the prototype. Looking at photos the lower panel on the class 31s seemed to be particularly oil stained and filthy (presumably as the panel joint in this area allowed oil from the engine room to leak out), I therefore made sure the streaking effects were heavy in this area. Once happy I used soot coloured weathering powders brushed on the roof panel lines and around the exhausts to recreate the roof dirt finish. Only once all of this was done did I get the airbrush out and apply a quick dusting of frame dirt to the lower bodysides to blend everything together (it does annoy me when I see a certain well known retailer selling "professionally weathered" locos at premium prices when all they have done is give them a quick blast with the airbrush). The real 31203 had the cab sides repainted at some point in the late 90s with a lighter shade of grey (presumably as they were beginning to corrode where the depot plaque and double arrows had been removed), I replicated this by hand brushing a lighter shade of grey in these areas making sure I left a gap for the numbers (as on the prototype the numbers were still on the original grey paint, the repainted area extending to the bottom of the numbers). The model was then gloss varnished ready for transfers, this part is important as if you don't apply transfers to a gloss surface you get a strange halo effect around the transfers and also in some cases a speckled effect where air bubbles are trapped under the transfer. Transfers were then applied and a coat of matt varnish applied to protect the weathering powders, without the varnish they would wear off over time through handling creating a reverse weathering effect where the model becomes cleaner the more it is handled. Buffer beam details are added and the underframe is then weathered with frame dirt, gloss black to represent buffer head grease and silver buffer shanks. Above photo shows the completed loco posing on Embankment Road TMD with a battered Dogfish behind, hopefully this little essay has been useful / informative to people considering doing respraying themselves. Some people may have noticed the two railfreight grey 31s in an earlier picture, whilst being slightly earlier than my chosen period these represent Bescot "Weekend Only" 31s 31128 and 31317 as they were in 1995 when they were in the Bescot weekend only engineers pool - basically a pair of complete wrecks! (I have however just noticed that 31128 needs a headlight adding).

No problem - nice choice, are you going to do it in its later years with the large bodyside coal logo removed but retaining the coal sector markings by the cab doors?. I suggest when painting the body side grills exec dk grey (not black) you mask and brush paint rather than spray as it's easier! (I gave up trying to spray mine!).

Also don't forget black for the doors and bonnets.

Rob, P182 is the dark railfreight grey used on RF red stripe, Dutch livery etc. You need Rail Grey which I believe is P151. Phoenix also do spray thinners although the general purpose thinners will work. Jon