pacerfan

On 20/09/2019 at 15:33, D9020 Nimbus said:

Highly reliable? Not in my experience (although they are more reliable now than when they were new). They are certainly highly uncomfortable and extremely noisy going round curves.

 

The 142s were based closely on the design of the Leyland National bus. How many of those are still in front-line service?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51412945

http://preserved.railcar.co.uk/Class142.html

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/rail-features/pacers-the-unlikely-local-heroes

The Leyland National was a long lived bus. Production ended in 1985-6 and they were a common sight until the early 2000s. At the time of introduction, they were reputed to be the safest bus on the road and an example was driven into a block of concrete to show this. The 510 fixed head 'headless wonder' engine of the MK1 National was it's only real weakness and some operators fitted different engines to replace them. For example, Crosville fitted Gardner units to over 100 of it's MK1s and Fishwick's of Leyland fitted DAF units (based on the Leyland O.680) to a number of their MK1s. East Lancs Coach builders revamped a number of Nationals as 'National Greenways' an idea that may have been extended to Class 142s.

I stopped using public transport around 18th February. It was the last week of off peak operation of Northern's remaining four Class 142s. (After I had been sneezed and coughed over on a bus, I felt that public transport was unsafe due to the emerging Covid-19 pandemic).

For the past 4-5 years, I have been saying to friends that once the Pacers are withdrawn, I will be travelling by trains much less; the claustrophobic nature and excessive engine noise levels of their Class 150 replacements causes me too much stress and anxiety. i liked nothing better on a hot day than to sit on the bench seats near the doors on Pacers and feel the breeze coming in. They provided a good source of fresh air, that was ideal in the Pandemic that we now find ourselves in.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/20200512123109-indoor-spread-of-oronavirus-is-affecting-how-establishments-must-consider-ventilation/

I was intending to get a few last rides on 144s, but the pandemic put pay to that.

On 01/12/2016 at 16:53, Matabiau said:

 

I believe the skipper livery (and MPTE orange, and provincial blue) had disappeared by the time the 142s were fitted with single leaf doors.

 

EDIT: I stand corrected, I have just found a photo from1995 of a skipper in chocolate and cream with bright yellow single leaf doors. I don't believe they stayed like that for very long.

142012 spent a few weeks during the early part of 1994 in original orange GMPTE livery sporting bright yellow new doors. 142027 also spent a short time in the chocolate and cream livery in 1996 with the new doors..

On 24/01/2018 at 23:02, royaloak said:

I never realised the 142s were renumbered when they had the gearboxes changed, they do say you learn something new every day.

 

It was to do with either changing the engines from Leyland TL11 engines to Cummins or the Self Changing gearboxes to Voith T211R, I cant remember which one it was and most of my info books are still packed.

 

Edit-

Norm81 has confirmed it was the gearboxes.

The renumbering of 142s was to identify the ones fitted with Voith gearboxes. Not all were renumbered and all were renumbered back to their original numbers after the conversion program was completed in March 1991. However, Class 143s were renumbered and retained their new numbers.

The Cummins engines were fitted to Pacers from about March 1993 to April 1996. New doors were also fitted around the same time. The first 142s with Cummins engines were 142036, 142044, 142048 and 142054 in autumn 1993. The first with new doors was 142044.

On 24/01/2018 at 10:30, Owd Bob said:

Never thought anybody would ever be interested in these things but here's a few badly scanned pics' (cheapo scanner) i found recently, from back when film was expensive and not to be wasted on such things.   I have much better ones yet to scan, and will admit now that i quite liked these units but don't tell anyone!

Passing Springs Branch. Late 1980's? 

Near Dog Hill Oldham. 1987.

 

Good set of pictures here of 142s in original liveries. I would add that the photo of the chocolate and cream former Cornish Skipper would have had to be taken a bit later than 1987. It can be seen that the unit had been fitted with Voith gearboxes by then (the gearbox valve boxes for the Voith gearboxes can be seen painted in white). The chocolate and cream 142s, 142015-27 received Voith transmission between the autumn of 1988 and early 1989.

On 20/02/2020 at 17:27, 46444 said:

Yesterday I visited Osbourne's in Rushden and placed my yearly orders with Will. 

 

Osbourne's is an excellent traditional model shop with a toy department. Well worth a visit if your in East Northamptonshire. 

 

I happened to note that Class 142's are running on the Wellingborough-Higham Branch... 

 

 

This one's on its way back to Neville Hill for serving I believe... 

 

 

In all seriousness I could not believe my eyes having travelled down from my West Yorkshire Pacer stamping ground. 

 

Two pairs have been preserved on the Rushden Heritage Line 142 084 and 142 091.

 

Apparently they went for a good price and are in full working order. I was allowed to look around them under supervision. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lovely to see these two in their new setting. 

 

If the Wellingborough-Higham Ferrers branch had survived I'm sure the humble Pacer would have been a success on the line. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Mark 

 

142084 is noteworthy as it was fitted with Perkins 2006-TWH engines in 1991 as a trial to find a replacement for the original Leyland TL11s. The Cummins LT10R was decided on, but 142084 ran with the Perkins power units for several years.

11 hours ago, russ p said:

I'm not sure about the final drives were these fitted the same time as the voith gearboxes. 

I used to drive them at the time they fitted the voith gearboxes.  I'd be happy to see one with TL11s and voith as at least it would be reliable 

The Voith final drives were fitted in 2014: https://www.railwaygazette.com/traction-and-rolling-stock/voith-to-retrofit-pacer-dmu-final-drives-and-wheelsets/39344.article

Whilst pacers are withdrawn here, in Slovakia they are rebuilding their railbuses: https://www.railwaygazette.com/traction-and-rolling-stock/zos-zvolen-produces-demonstrator-dmu/38840.article

On 05/02/2020 at 09:27, russ p said:

Is there many TL11s available from road vehicles to fit on preserved ones? It would be quite involved to refit the original gearboxes as the wiring was considerably altered but not impossible if you could actually find one

As Leyland ceased production of the TL11 engine in 1988 around the time of the Leyland Bus management buyout, there are not many TL11 engines around now. However, until more recently a Polish company, Jelcz did make copies of Leyland engines. One is shown here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C2fHDxZykc

It would be good to have one of the GMPTE orange livered 142s restored to original condition with Deans four leaf doors, TL11 engines and SCG R500 gearboxes. However, it probably would be difficult for a preserved railway to operate one as the gearboxes were so unreliable. Weardale Railway had a lot of trouble with their Class 141 and scrapped it. Also, the 142s have had their original final drives replaced by Voith units. Would this be a barrier to re-fitting an SCG gearbox?

1 hour ago, Dave47549 said:

 

Noisy, yes, but this one at 1:56 is none too sluggish:

 

 

- But my person preference is for the original TL11/SCG combo at 0:42!

The Leyland TL11/SCG drivetrain was my favourite too. After March 1991 (when all later classes of Pacer had got Voith gearboxes), i used to go to West Yorkshire a lot to have rides on the Class 141s. Their early withdrawal in 1995-98 was a big disappointment to me.

On 03/02/2020 at 10:11, russ p said:

 

Has anyone actually been killed in any pacer?  I wouldn't fancy hitting anything in one 

144017 hit 37681 head on at Skipton in January 1992. The Pacer's front end was rebuilt, but the 37 was scrapped.

All Class 142s, 143s and 144s had Voith transmission fitted by late March 1991, but still retained Leyland TL11 engines. The TL11 engine was not very well matched to the Voith gearbox and they were very noisy and slow. At college, we used to dub them as being 'Voith-Bugged' because of this. A 144 pulling away at 0:29 secs illustrates the point. The Cummins LT10R engines fitted later had better acceleration and were much quieter.

On 03/02/2020 at 15:20, Owd Bob said:

3-2-20. 1.56pm. Crows Nest Junc' Hindley. Nearly two months since my last sighting of a 142 and i Just about caught a glimpse and a pic' of 142 078 attached to 150 131. Was on the 2k68 Man'Vic' to Kirkby.

 

On weekdays, the 09:35 Kirkby  to Manchester Victoria usually has a 142 on it. Yesterday it was 142043 coupled to a 150. Until two Saturdays ago, the Saturday 10:35 Kirkby to Manchester Vic also had a 142 on it. However, on the last couple of Saturdays it has just been a single 150/1. You were lucky to capture 142078 with 150131 yesterday. That service would later be the 2:35pm departure from Kirkby to Manchester Victoria. From my observations, it is usually formed of a single 150. There are reports circulating that there are no more workings for 142s after 14th January.

On 03/02/2020 at 10:11, russ p said:

 

Has anyone actually been killed in any pacer?  I wouldn't fancy hitting anything in one 

Apart from trespassers on the lines, I recall reading that in 1987 a woman got caught in the doors of a 142 and dragged to her death at St. Annes On Sea station. The 142s then had the original Deans four leaf doors.

The Class 142 withdrawals seem to be having a negative affect on services:

Today, only four 142s were in service and the 10:35am Kirkby to Manchester Victoria was short formed with a single 150/2. Usually on a Saturday it is a 150 and 142.
There were quite a lot of cancellations today. Among them were:-
The 11:55 Manchester Vic to Wigan Wallgate (apparently due to 'more trains than usual undergoing repair').
The 18:00 Stalybridge to Manchester Vic.
The 18:26 Manchester Vic to Kirkby (apparently due to 'problems with lineside equipment').
The 20:10 Wigan Wallgate to Blackburn.

All of the Southport services that I saw were only two carriages and very full.

On 12/01/2020 at 14:52, Owd Bob said:

I have'nt seen any 142's in the Wigan - Bolton & Wigan - Manch' area for nearly a month now.  

From observations, it appears that the 10:35 and 16:35 services from Kirkby to Manchester Victoria (11:01 and 17:01 from Wigan Wallgate) are formed of a 142 and a 150 on Saturdays only. I have noticed that on weekdays it is a single 150.

The 15:35 weekdays from Kirkby to Manchester Victoria, (16:01 from Wigan Wallgate), seems to usually be a 142 coupled to a 150 or a 156. It was a 142 and 150/1 today. Can anyone confirm if this is the same train that forms the earlier 09:35 from Kirkby to Manchester Victoria?

On 19/12/2019 at 15:11, eastwestdivide said:

Right then. As promised, a quick half an hour or so on the canal footbridge at Rotherham Parkgate, as the clouds darkened and gave way to rain, 4/5 possible services turned up with a Pacer. 

 

399206 on the 1327 Sheffield Cathedral to Parkgate (3 late)

(missing in action = cancelled, the 1324 Adwick to Sheffield)

.....

144021 on the 1248 Leeds to Sheffield (18 late)

144002 on the 1332 Sheffield to Doncaster (16 late)

As a bonus, the Exol Pride on an empty oil products run from Exol Lubricants in Rotherham to somewhere on Humberside. Unfortunately not while there was a train going by.

144003 on the 1315 York to Sheffield, graffiti, (5 late)

144013 on the 1405 Sheffield to Adwick (5 late)

Cuckoo in the nest - 158815 on the 1405 Doncaster to Sheffield  (3 late)

399203 on the 1400 Sheffield Cathedral to Parkgate (2 late)

 

Photos on the fixed focal length 50mm lens with a wide aperture, as the light was so bad - mostly 1/400s, ISO 800, f/1.8.

Good shot of the 399. I can't help but think that a diesel version of these would make an ideal Pacer replacement!

Yesterday, two 142s coupled together were on the Kirkby line seen at Pemberton station at 18:23. I did not get the unit numbers as it was dark and I was driving. Today I have only seen 150/1s on the line.

2 minutes ago, Owd Bob said:

Good luck on that one, the early morn' and evening buses are packed out, they only take 15-20 mins to get to the East Lancs Rd. at Walkden from Leigh, but it then can take up to an hour and half some days to get the rest of the way to Mank!  Wonder if we'll get the promised investment and a railway again in this new Tory borough of Leigh.

It would be  Saturdays when I would use it. I used to use it a lot when the guards were on strike last year. I am surprised that the Wigan NW to Lostock Jct stretch has not been electrified yet as it would free up a number of DMUs.

It shouldn't be that difficult to put Leigh back on the rail map, as a short link from the Liverpool to Manchester line would be all that is needed.

14 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Bob, while your laid up take some time on this site (you will need it - thousands of photos !!) - No pacers but I.m sure you'll like it - 

 

https://www.timepix.uk/PAGES/Top-Line-navigation-pages/Browse-maps/n-3sMzQP/Wigan

 

https://www.timepix.uk/Collection-galleries/OS-Revision-Points-in-Greater-Manchester/1940s-1950s-Wigan/Leigh-and-Westleigh/

 

Best wishes for your op, look after thysen !!

 

Thanks everybody for the Pacer pics - but I'll be happy to see the bl**dy things go - Try riding on one downhill from Kearsley to Salford at over 80mph (yes !!), engines screaming away & rockin & rollin more than Elvis - what's that warm feeling down below - hope it's sweat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Looking forward to our new trains when we get the drivers trained to drive them !!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

We are unlikely to get new trains on the Atherton line though. It is more likely to be slightly older150/1s cascaded down. I have always detested them from new. I feel that the claustrophobic nature and the excessive noise from their 1960s designed marine engines negates the benefits of having bogies and makes me very stressed and anxious travelling on them. I will probably start driving to the Astley Park and Ride and catch the guided bus into Manchester instead.

I find it ironic that so much is made of the bad ride quality of Pacers, when a fair number of lines in Greater Manchester have been converted to Metrolink, yet the trams offer a poorer ride with severe bogie hunting at speed and less seats.

I used to travel around West Yorkshire a lot in the early 1990s when the Class 141s were still in service. This area had mostly constantly welded track then and the Class 141s gave a largely acceptable ride. In fact they were my favourite Class of Pacer, largely because they retained SCG gearboxes, (except 141113).

Following the Class 142 cull at the weekend, I was surprised to see a single 142 on the 12:35 Kirkby to Manchester Victoria service today. Unfortunately, I wasn't close enough to see the unit number.

2 hours ago, russ p said:

 

 

Makes me feel old this as it doesn't seem that long ago they were new. They had a troubled introduction along with the 143s in the north east but at least there was other trains to fall back on unlike today 

As a BL enthusiast it does sadden me a little that soon there will be nothing left in public service that they built but I admit that isn't the view of people who use the daily 

Would like to see one preserved as built with TL11 engines back on

it is of interest to note that the first two 142s to be scrapped were noteworthy as 142005 was the only FNW refurb  with powder coated seat handrails and 142044 was the first to receive the new single leaf doors in 1993. With 142036 and 142048, it was one of the first to receive Cummins engines around the same time. 

I too would like to see a 142 preserved with Leyland TL11 engines but with SCG gearboxes as well.

It would have seemed inconceivable not that long ago that there would come a day when there were no Leyland buses of any model on Britains roads. Personally, I think it is a bad thing. The ride quality of the Olympian would put a lot of today's buses to shame.

2 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Quote

 

 

The first nine of Northern's 142s will be withdrawn this weekend. They will be Newton Heath's 142012/13/14/30/33 and Heaton's 142016/21/25/66. 142025 has already been withdrawn with engine failure.

I have always preferred the Pacers over other rolling stock as they are light and airy. I find on hot days it is most comfortable to sit on the bench seats near the doors with the windows open.

In my locality, mostly cascaded 150/1s will take other Pacer duties. I have always detested 150s due to their claustrophobic interiors and the excessive noise from their late 1960s designed Cummins marine engines. They cause me too much stress and anxiety to travel on them and i will only travel by train when absolutely essential once the Pacer withdrawal has taken place.

For five pole armature; approximately 125 turns of 38 swg  for each wind works.

This sounds close. I once unwound a broken 5 pole armature from an Airfix class 31. There were about 100 turns of 0.13mm (approx 39 SWG) copper wire on each pole.

Please be an East Lancs body like 6757!

 

But seriously, I'll be getting two just for nostalgia! They were being rapidly phased out of Coventry when I was a kid, but I still have very vivid memories of catching them to town! Far better experience than the Metro's that replaced them, although being a kid I didn't have the lack of room issues that others have stated 

On the subject of Fleetlines, this post reminds me that 6th January 2019 will mark the 20th anniversary when First Manchester withdrew it's last GMT standard Northern Counties bodied Leyland Fleetline from service, It brought to an end 37 years operation of the type in the Greater Manchester area. I still very much miss them to this day, the Gardner engined version was always my favourite rear engined double decker of all time. I recall that the last West Midlands Fleetlines were withdrawn a little earlier in 1997.

The Airfix motor is very similar but not the same.  There are several detail differences.  I had wondered about Bonds for the horseshoe magnet motor as they did use this shape of magnet often.

I am 100% certain that the motor in the last picture is from a Airfix GMR 61xx Prairie tank. I have about three of these locos and it still has the correct worm and wiring to fit one.

I refer to my earlier posts about certain Hornby Dublo/Wrenn 1/2" motors losing some of their magnetism a few days after remagnetising. It states on the Hornby Dublo loco instruction sheets: "Do not tamper with any screws holding the motor together, as this may lead to mis-alignment and loss of power...". The instructions with the Ronald Dodd remagnetiser tell you to remove the magnet nut and bolt to remagnetise the motor.

This had me asking if this is the reason why some magnetism is being lost? I decided to drill an indent into each face of my remagnetiser's pole bars which then enabled the motor to be remagnetised with the nut and bolt in situ. After three days the motor appears to have not lost any magnetism after taking this action.