Steve T

When sorting out some stuff a couple of months back, I came across a set of diesel diagrams for the South Western Division I thought I'd lost years ago. Dated Mondays to Fridays from 4th October 1965 until further notice, the Warship diagrams (listed as 'D.800 Class') had the following passenger workings: 501. 09.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids 18.00 Exeter St Davids - Waterloo 502. 01.15 Waterloo - Plymouth (via Okehampton) 10.55 Plymouth - Salisbury (to Brighton, via Okehampton) 14.36 Salisbury - Waterloo 19.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids 503. 07.25 Exeter Central - Waterloo 15.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids 504. 06.20 Exeter Central - Waterloo 13.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids 505. 11.00 Waterloo - Salisbury 13.06 Salisbury - Plymouth (10.25 from Brighton, via Okehampton) 18.00 Plymouth - Newton Abbot 506. 06.33 Yeovil Junction - Exeter Central 10.25 Exeter St Davids - Waterloo 17.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids 507. 14.20 Exeter St Davids - Waterloo There's much more besides, with Hymeks, 33s, 31s, etc. all listed, together with ECS, freight, light engine moves and driver duties.

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p634483962/h18b1172b#h18b1172b Here's another one of it with 860. If I were a betting man I'd say the skirts were a different colour but the photo is not entirely conclusive. EDIT: http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p634483962/h179afcc8#h179afcc8 Yet another, albeit even less conclusive. Although 864 is not mentioned, it's the in the centre of the photo. Of note is the two phot's show both ends of 860 have a blue streak where rain water has washed the dirt away on its way down from the nose. 864 has no such mark - all appears brown.

There's a book (forget which one) with a colour phot of it on the scrapline at Swindon and the frames do still appear to be brown. The rest of the loco appeared washed-out blue but below the solebar was all brown. I think the fact all Western and Warship frames tended to get covered in brake dust and appeared to be beyond the reach of the wash plants meant it was not obvious the loco was any different to the rest.

If i had to bet I'd say the nameplate suggests Pathfinder.

I think that was a tour rather than service train. Dad took a few of phot's of it, including a lovely one at Cheltenham St James with D1006 on the tour and a very tatty D1068 alongside on a regular Paddington train - I'd post it but it's his photo, not mine.

I think we may have our wires crossed. The phot of D6973 is with D9544 after the latter failed, not derailed. On the left of the picture you can see railings next to the track and on the right high level sidings. This fits Avon colliery at Abergwynfi, not Glyncorrwg (the latter was in a much more cramped setting). Have a look at http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/GlamWest/Avon.htmand the photo of 9678 at Abergwynfi on Six Bells Junction (Y Draig Goch, 21/11/64).

More likely cleaned by said jackets brushing past...

Andy, the first one certainly appears to be Duke - Crewe loco, no stickers, short name, only Western with a name ending in 'E' other than Enterprise. As you say, the second loco gives the impression of D1065's unique cowl and is it is definitely the right end for said embellishment. It has to be said, it's been a bit of an eye-opener to me just how easy some Thousands are to identify with just a few clues - always assumed it was just the Warships that were so easy to pin down. Great photo's, by the way.

Andy, you can rule out D1024 - it was withdrawn in early February.

I'd say the middle loco in the top phot is either D1056 or D1071 as the warning flashes appear to indicate a Crewe-built Western. On the basis the flashes on the engine nearest the sea denote a Swindon-built Thousand, it is one of D1005, D1025, D1026, D1027 or D1029. Great photo's.

I reckon you're right. Definitely a Crewe loco and if you look closely the exhaust only stains the roof towards the coaches so looks like first working.

Public. I would guess it was possibly booked a DMU but hauled due to either shortage of DMU's or capacity issues. The Marches went over to loco & stock around this time for the same reason. Out of interest, are the Cardiff - Crewe trains in the coach working diagrams? Looking at the timetable (it was the first winter Saturday), there are no instances of two down trains being booked into Cardiff within 26 minutes of each other between 13:12 and 18:18 (other than where an HST is involved). Lighting conditions and the presence of what appears to be 1V92 certainly fit.

My mistake - misread the footnote in the timetable. It was a Weston train (no pun intended). Taking into account the second phot it looks a fair bet to have been 13:15 Cardiff - Weston-super-Mare then 16:30 Weston-Super-mare - Cardiff. The latter was due in Cardiff at 18:12. Alongside is a Peak, and the 14:23 Manchester - Cardiff (a fairly soild Peak turn) was due to terminate at 18:18. According to UK Weather, sunset in Cardiff on 9th October is 18:33, so that would appear to fit.

Only problem is, 9th October was a Saturday. I suspect it was the 13:15 Cardiff - Plymouth.

I was on that! We had it Neath to Plymouth, Totnes to Neath. Dad had a cab ride from Bridgend on the return as he was involved in the organisation. Dad has photo's of my brother and I admiring D1023 at Laira after it had gone on shed for fuel. It is one of my few vague memories of Thousands in service (I was only four at the time!). We went to Laira, then the Dart Valley Railway...

I vaguely recall seeing that in Dad's copy of RM. Imagine the noise!

Blimey! Have to say it seems unlikely they worked that on more than a few occasions, if at all. I would have thought those Saturday workings in particular would not go unreported by that date but you never know. Saying that, there are relatively few photo's / reports of the 20:10 Exeter - Newton Abbot that summer and by all accounts that was a regular turn for one, sometimes two 6300's.

Looks like they've missed the shedplate mounting on the bufferbeam. Buffer-hung steps are there, though.

Gareth, that is fantastic. Really detailed, interesting information. I had been told some trains went via the Vale of Neath but had forgotten (was Aberpergwm - Hirwaun reopened for these?). Seem to recall also being told that following the catalogue of line blockages detailed above a least one overnight train with a Western was rumoured to have run via Llandrindod and Wellington to London.

Well, my old man's checked his slides and confirms the phot of D6973+D9544 is definitely at Abergwynfi, not Glyncorrwg. Thinking about I doubt it could have been at Glyncorrwg as I suspect 37's were banned there due to the weak viaduct at Cymmer. That would also explain why 08's took over from Teddy Bears, not something bigger and faster.

Thanks, Brian, interesting stuff.

Thanks, Gareth. Sounds like this was the working I was told about.

Not sure. All I was told was it was something which conveyed a BSK so could have been newspapers or parcels.

Whatever you do, please don't stop!

Thanks, Gareth. Good to have a second source. On the subject of Aberfan, I used to work with someone from there who I asked about a Teddy Bear working I'd heard about twenty or more years ago. My original source told me there used to be a very early morning parcels train worked by a D95xx from Cardiff to Merthyr which used to work back at something like 05:00 and was available for passengers but was unadvertised (it had a BSK in the formation). Anyway, I'd never heard this mentioned anywhere else so had sort of dismissed it but the bloke from Aberfan said he remembered it - he was 16 in 1965, I think. I don't think it was advertised and understand it could only done back to Cardiff. Not sure which year(s) this is supposed to have worked but the fact two independent sources told me the same thing a couple of decades apart leads me to believe there is more than a grain of truth in it. Anyone got a working timetable from the period?