Patrick Blake

On 30/12/2022 at 10:33, Monkey28 said:

Thanks.

 

I would prefer something that works of track power but may take a look at these 

I am currently in the process of lighting my three S Stock sets but will be using warm white LED strips instead for a more authentic look.

The close couplings that the S Stock uses need tinkering so that the carriage LEDs can be connected in series. Allowing me to power them through DCC input.

Sound on my units will be provided by a legomanbiffo sound chip.

With the upcoming release of the EFE Rail 1938 Tube Stock, I have been curious to find out if EFE ever produced any other deep-level tube stock models or ever planned to?

I would've thought that by continuing the "silver era" theme, you could have a 72 Stock Model for the Bakerloo, Jubilee and Northern Lines and a 67 Stock for the Victoria?

It would compliment the various EFE die-cast 38s and 59s that are already out there.

I guess it comes down to how many people would be keen on modelling the 60s /70s era of London Transport. I Certainly would. But scratch building all the rolling stock would be very time consuming for me so I'm wondering if a model is already out there.

I remember when the S Stock Model was first announced. I was one of the first 100 people to pre-order one from the LTM Shop website and a special outing was organized for those first 100 orders.

I paid £440 back then for a full 8 car set. £280 for the 4 car pack and £40 for each additional carriage that came with it.

I regret not buying more additional cars back then so that I could create a S7 and S8.

As someone mentioned earlier on, these carriages are going for silly money on eBay.

Whilst it might seem like there isn't an obvious case for a re-run. The demand will always be there. LU is highly sought after by collectors and modellers alike.

Iirc. One auction saw an S Stock sell for £6000.

Surely there would be a credible argument for a re-run for an S7 variant that covers the Circle/District/H&C and to have them in various wraps/liveries like they did a few years back.

Looking at the specs for the RTR 1938TS, it seems likely that a coreless motor with a twin axle will power both bogies on both driving motor cars. That being the case, it will most likely have a cardane shaft linking the axle to a worm gear driving the bogies.

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 I owned a converted EFE tube with two Tenshodo motors, it ran like a pig on my track, very poor on corners, barely pulled itself and ultimately ran it as a 3 car, then later as a 2 car.
The problem seemed to be lack of weight, pickups & manoeuvrability, I was resold for £400, I could have easily spent months on perfecting it, but I made a profit so let it go.

The problem that I had with the conversion is that it required cutting openings and holes into the white metal chassis. Many people complained about the reliability of motorising the static EFE Carriages and everyone responded the same way by recommending placed weights on top of the Tenshodo spuds without actually realising what the problem was.

Firstly it didn't help that the Tenshodo spuds were made to drag all that white metal in the chassis under not just the motor cars but trailing cars too. (EFE Rail obviously took this onboard and produced a plastic moulded chassis instead.)
Secondly, Tenshodo spuds are noisy /rattly, not built for lugging large weights /were prone to overheating in my experience and lastly poor at performing under controlled /slow speeds and thus impractical for DCC.

I bought a 4 car 59TS in LUL Livery and never bought any other EFE Model since due to the amount of effort that was required in motorising them and the poor result that I got from the conversion that I did myself.

Patrick

This announcement has excited many modellers of LU/LT like myself who have been eager to see the EFE Static models reproduced into a ready-to-run variant. A step in the right direction!
 

This is the first off the shelf model of a r-t-r "Deep Level Tube" Train produced in a very long time. Nothing like it has ever been done since the production of the crude tin plate Ever-Ready Battery Powered London Underground Set over 60 years ago! The only possible exemption was the rather specialist Metromodels 1992/95/96TS which were produced in very small numbers and rather hard to acquire these days.

Looking at the specs of this model, this is a definite improvement to what we had before. Whilst the exterior body shell remains relatively unchanged in the pictures, the chassis has been massively improved! It's plastic so it weighs less and has with it a NEM Socket for easy coupling.
There is a coreless motor and a low-floor drive mechanism powering both bogies in the Driving Motor Cars "A and D Ends" and pick ups on all four carriage bogies will supply power to the interior lights.

The sample pictures show very little changes to the exterior detailing. The grab rails on the corners are formed as part of the body shell moulding rather than added on separately and both the head and tail lights appear to be painted on. Though as these are sample pictures, these may be details that will be added to the production models.

It should be pointed out that the conversion of the static EFE models had always produced mixed results. The conversion method which required the use of Tenshodo Motor Bogies and heavy modifications to the chassis was not very straightforward at all. My personal experience with the Tenshodo spuds was that they were under-powered, noisy and prone to overheating. The chassis was white metal so very heavy and cutting a hole wasn't straightforward unless you had an angle grinder and a cutting disk! Additionally, you had to insulate the chassis if you had to wire in lights or a DCC Decoder and you had to swap out the bogies with ones with free rolling pin-point axles for smoother running.

I have never bought any more static EFE Models after buying the LUL Liveried 59TS Model and attempted to motorise it. It was a headache to do right and didn't work very well! I'm very glad that this model has been produced. If this first batch is successful and something tells me it will, EFE may do a re-run and produce the same model in a later livery or possibly even a 3-car variant to make the complete 7-car formation or even a 2-car variant of the Isle Of Wight Units.

Hello

I am currently after a model of the 'Metromodels' 1992 Tube Stock which came ready to run.

Though some were also sold unpainted.

Sometimes the odd 2-car set appears for sale.

Thanks

I personally find any attempt in motorizing 4mm scale deep level tube stock to be an arduous process, whether it be EFE, Metromodels or Radley.

Bachmann's low floor motor/shaft arrangement works really well, pity they didn't make an additional power car from one of the 4 add-on cars you could buy.

In the mean time, for what there is that isn't Ready-to-run, we're stuck with Blackbeetle and Tenshodo motor bogies which are neither cheap or easy to come by and from my experience not very reliable either.

On 09/02/2019 at 18:08, trapoint said:

Before I can take it on the road it needs a major overhaul  and so It will need somewhere to be  worked upon by a team of skilled modellers with a combined interest in LNER/ LT  it will also need funding.

So if anybody out there can help with either of the above please write in,  

It's a very interesting proposition.
Depending on the type of overhaul work that is required, I might be able to assist. I'm not so familiar with LNER. However I have vaguely familiarised  myself with many of the LNER - LT transitional periods on sections of the Central and Northern Lines. My strongest point is definitely London Underground if it helps.

Sadly, I struggle to see how I can assist with finding a location to carry out the work. 

Perhaps you may want to consider joining the Chelmsford & District Model Railway Club? At least you could advertise your layout or to get a better chance of finding people to assists you with restoration work.

Patrick

At the moment I am tempted to hard wire the driving and adjacent cars together in order to improve the pickups.

 

I will have to dig out the MPV and see what the contacts look like and see if something can be improvised.

Good luck . I was tempted to buy a MPV myself to do the very same. I believe the couplings are designed to split open in the middle and the contacts sit inside. If you do attempt to have a look, feel free to post any pictures, as I will be very intrigued.

I may just do the very same with the dummy versions to see if I can suss out where the contacts are meant to be.

As many of you will have seen the Bachmann S-stock is a bit tricky to get running reliably as supplied when fitted with ESU sound. Having to fit traction tyres to the driven wheels rather limits pickup on the powered cars to just four wheels somewhat making the train pretty undriveable with a sound decoder in unless the track, wheels and remaining pickups are spotless.

 

Since all eight cars in an S-8 set have pickups I thought it might be a good idea to link the pickups of the intermediate cars to the power cars to provide improved current collection. The couplers appear to be similar to those fitted to the Blue Pullman - but without the electrical connections. Is it possible to get contacts for these couplers or get replacement conducting couplers? 

I own two 4 Car sets and have carried out modifications to both to improve performance. The contacts on the trailing cars are causing excessive drag so I removed them and I added the traction tyres. I would like to install my own interior lights and sound but the problem as you pointed out is that you can not feed electrical wires through a conductor coupling and power everything through a DCC Chip from one end.

Bachmann cheaped out on the option of adding more interior detailing and lighting that would be compatible with DCC with Conductor Couplings. I asked them if the same couplings with contacts could be supplied and the refused to answer. These couplings were already use before for the Bachmann Windhoff MPV. For the S Stock, they used dummy versions. I was quite annoyed when Bachmann released the Blue Pullman with the conductive couplings and DCC powered lights.

I can never seem to get an answer as to whether these couplings can come available as spare or be purchased separately.

Pete did the 172 window etches for me when I did a LM 172/3, I think you can order them from him still, they basically replace the complete window ribbon for a brass etch with individual windows

 

Swapping the bogies is simple enough if you can get hold of any voyager bogies that is!

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Thanks for the tips.

I'm going to experiment with waterside transfers and produce some orange stripes, roundels and other pieces, the rest I will attempt to do with an airbrush.

I'm wondering if 3D printed parts might do the trick for the windows and bogies.

As others have gone on to say and to ensure there is no ambiguity it must be stated that the renumbering was not carried out by Bachmann, the museum arranged this through a third party.

This is news to me as the information I was given was different. This only raises more questions as to why the price went up by £60 and £5 for each 4 additional cars.

AFAIK, Bachmann stuck transfers over the existing ones. There's no quick and safe way of removing the old ones without damaging the paint behind. That and relabelling the boxes was worth jacking up the price of the 4 car set by £60.

While I would of preferred an A or D Stock, you have to remember that the S Stock was a safer choice on the basis that it wasn't in development as either a kit or 3D Model, and some 3D attempts weren't successful on the basis that the cab shape was difficult to replicate without a 3D Scan. The attitude with Ready-to-run models is often that it's not worth buying if modellers already own a kit built version. So much was the case when Heljan unveiled their prototype of the Sarah Siddons model and 4 other variations of the type.

Weather Bachmann chooses to design the Class 230 is yet to be seen, but I can see myself converting one back to D Stock if I did get one.

The S Stock was not cheap (and personally never great value for money), but it has opened up many opportunities for modern image London Underground modelling. Now we also have Heljan's Sarah Siddons and other Met Bo-Bo Electric Locomotives to add to the collection.

On a separate note, Dapol have unveiled their new Ballast Turbot wagon, a few of which are still in use by LUL today and I am tempted to convert a few. It would be nice to see Heljan produce a LU Battery Locomotive to go with this. They would be far more popular at they can be produced in varying liveries to reflect different eras.

As for the S Stock, well who knows how many LTM have left in stock. If they are still struggling to sell, another price reduction might be on the cards. Though you have to remember, the price for the 4 car set was originally £280 with additional cars costing £40 each before they were sent back for renumbering, so the current offer doesn't really reflect a massive price reduction. I currently own two sets but would ideally like 4. However I've currently resisted the temptation to buy them while they've been on offer since January as I believe they could be priced down further. Saying that, LTM are holding a 3rd open day at Acton this year so this does have the potential of increasing shop sales.

Not sure if this correct place to discuss LO, though seeing as this and LU are both under the larger 'TfL' umbrella, it seemed appropriate.
 

 
So I thought about converting a RTR Bachmann Class 170 into a LO Class 172 and wondered how difficult it could be. Has anybody else attempted this or does anybody else model London Overground?
I thought that modelling one of these small DMUs which operate from Gospel Oak to Barking would be a good start, and would be a good addition to any small layout for anyone wanting to model modern image at home.

Here are some photos showing what I've done so far, you can follow all my progress on my blog.

The two new 4 Car sets consist of number 21059 - 21060 and 21105 - 21106.

The Destination boards are not different.

In summary, the Model is your same S8 like the one released in 2015. This time, no intermediate cars come included, this is due to the large number of unsold cars the LTM was left with from before.

The prices are steep, though this is in part explained in an earlier comment someone made.

However, this model was never really good value for money. What sold it was the superb accuracy and detail. Not much else.

At the time, buyers like myself believed it was worth purchasing one as it was seen as a one off limited edition model.

Now it's back, and the best the LTM they could do is increase their price and not listen to customer suggestions.

My final verdict is that people have a reason to be annoyed.

 

According to the latest Heritage Railway magazine:

• The 1938 Stock tube train hopefully be back in operation in Feb.
• The 4TC is at Eastleigh having work carried out, including new livery.
• Former LMS Engineers Saloon no. 45029 is owned by TfL and being restored at Eastleigh.
• 20142 is planned to haul the 4TC and 45029 from London to Quainton Road for the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre Spring Gala.
• Met 1, a Pannier Tank (probably 9466), Sarah Siddons, the 4TC & 45029 are pencilled in for Steam On The Met between Wembley Park and Watford on the first two weekends of September.

 

Glad to hear about Steam On the Met.

Anymore information about the 1938 Tube Stock. Is it due to return do Acton Museum Depot in February?

Could the 1938 Tube Stock be penciled in for Heritage Runs on the Piccadilly Line or SSL?

An EFE factory reject body shell in resin? Really? I'd be very surprised if they'd been anywhere near the factory, especially as the factory is in China.

 

The EFE '38 and '59/'62 body shells are polystyrene, not resin. Test shots would be in polystyrene as, AFAIK, you can't do a test shot of a mould intended for injection moulding polystyrene in resin. I suspect that what you have bought are pirated, no pun intended, resin castings of the EFE body shells, a nice little knock-off earner for someone. The flash around the bottom of the DM car towards the rear of the car is a dead giveaway. It can be done, I have seen for sale on ebay resin cast copies of the Tri-ang Sydney Suburban ("Red Ralttlers") body shells, and know of guys who have done likewise with other commercial body shells.

 

You say that the centre door is flush on the EFE model when it shouldn't be, but looking at photos that I have taken of '38 stock, it is so close to being flush that it is difficult to tell if it is recessed, or the shut lines that one is seeing. Remember, the origins of '38 Stock were the '35 Streamline stock, which did have a flush centre door, as did, looking at the picture on page 19 of Piers Connor's "The 1938 Tube Stock", the centre door on the flat fronted variants of the '35 Stock which were the true prototypes of the '38 stock. I agree that there should only be one grab handle on the non driving ends of the cars, but looking at the picture on page 81 J Graeme Bruce's "London Underground Tube Stock", the distance between the single door and the car end on the DM cars looks about right. There was space to stand with your back against the end wall of the car and not obstruct the door, partly because, IIRC, there were 4 tip-up upholstered seats in the end wall, 2 per side, for use outside the rush hour, and when folded away, the underside of the seats were flush with the interior of the end wall.

 

The major problem with the Pirate model of the '59/'62 stock for me is the join between the body side and the roof, the seam is too big, and is particularly evident on your photos of the cab front on the '59/'62 stock.. That carried through into the Harrow Model Shop kits. Also the recess on the front cab door on the '59/'62 stock is too great on the Pirate model. Like the '38 Stock in some photos it is difficult to say if it the shut lines or a recess that one is seeing.

 

But enjoy your scratchbuilding, we can never have too many LT/LU modellers.

Thanks for spotting that, sounds like you've seen a few proper EFE bodies then.

Those resin bodies were sold as kit parts, though when I showed them to a few modellers, they all including myself noticed that they were very identical to the EFE castings, so I speculated that they were EFE off casts without considering that they might have been pirated copies.

Corrections will be made.

Nevertheless, I got 6 DM's and 4 T/NDM's for £58 which isn't half bad, they are pretty robust a nicely detailed bodies. Having plain bodies, gives you the chance to super-detail and paint liveries which EFE haven't attempted such as the late Bakerloo EHO Livery. I could also make maintenance vehicles such as Tunnel Cleaning and Weed Killing Units.

All of the 38's, 59's and 62's I've seen have a recessed door so that is what I will be doing. It's standard practice in modelling for small detailing to be exaggerated, otherwise we wouldn't model grab rails with 0.5, 0.6 or 0.7 wire and every door would look almost flush, like the Bachmann S Stock - unless you want to be a scale perfectionist.

The single leaf door IS approx 2 mm further away from the corners than it ought to be. I've compared the sides with the Pirate Models Etched Brass bodies and compared with many photographs I've taken and with photographs in Brian Hardy's 'Underground Train File' 33 - 59.

On the subject of Pirate Models, yes as I already pointed out, the cast cab front of the kit isn't great, though I will attempt to make corrections where possible. I will attempt to reduce the recess of the center cab door, and reduce the size and height of the seam which makes the entire cab front, and as a result the whole body, much taller than it ought to be.

The resin bodies are a one-off and will be used for trialing various chassis which I will scratch build. Once I'm happy with the chassis, I will then scratch build a few bodies in the Pirate Models style (CAD designed etched brass body) and white metal cast ends.

I've opted brass for scratch building my 38's, 59/62's as I will be using this as my base for a future experiment.

Otherwise, I would recommend 3D printing for anybody who's good at that sort of thing. 

The door fault lights are on the roof and are a pain to get rid off on the brass pirate kits so just as well you can retain them!

 

You need to put the stabling light on in the bottom corner to replace a marker light.

 

As an aside I'm currently converting an EFE 1938 stock car into a flat front 1935 stock car.

Have you ever attempted to add Butterfly cocks on a model or other detailing corrections. Sounds interesting.

The EFE cars don't have butterfly cocks either and if you're not doing EHO the door fault lights will have to go. I think the pirate kits have the same problem. The glazing is surprisingly similar!

I assume you're referring to the ones at front. luckily I am doing EHO but you raise a fair point. 

Good timing, as I just gave up on the hunt for Cambrian Kits. 

I am starting a 1938 / 59 / 62 Stock Project and have planned to scratch build or part scratch build a few 7 and 8 car formations in various liveries. 

I have two Pirate Models 1959 / 62TS kits which I will use as a template. 

I compared my EFE 1959TS Set with the kit and noticed some inaccuracies with both the die-cast and kit versions.
Here's a list:

EFE Die-cast:
Driver's Cab door too far forward
Trailing end single leaf doors are too far from body ends.
Rivet Line above door slightly low.
Trailing ends have four grab rails instead of three.
Door Fault Lights (Pre-EHO 38's)
No Butterfly Cocks

Pirate Models Kit:
Overall body slightly wide and higher compared to EFE.
Door height exceeded and corners are too rounded.
Rivet Lines above doors are too high due to the above.

Surprisingly, the car lengths for both are exactly the same, so I assume they got that bit correct.

If I have missed anything, then please let me know. I'm aware that EFE chassis were also wrong in certain places.
Some blue-prints would be useful for comparing.


In case you're wondering why I've chosen to scratch build? IMHO, converting EFE die-cast models has proven to be costly and time consuming, many issues have already been covered in separate topics so I wont go into detail. Issues with detailing and Motorizing are commonly raised.

I will attempt to scratch built my own chassis and bogies to go with a few EFE - style 38TS resin cast bodies that I bought on eBay. I plan to super detail the resin shells and paint them in EHO Bakerloo Livery. 

Patrick

I inquired with someone from Bachmann on board the train. I didn't catch his name, but he worked on designing a lot of Bachmann Models.

I explained my issue about the missing contacts in the couplings. He immediately pointed out that they were the same coupling design used on the MPV and Pullman Set so we were both immediately on the same page.

He explained that for economical reasons, and that because it was a commission from the LTM. Bachmann decided to make the couplings without contacts.

Unfortunately, he told me that replacement couplings will be exactly the same without contacts. Though apparently it is possible to put contacts in, he suggested that I call Bachmann Customer Support and ask for a service diagram of the couplings or alternatively find a coupling off a second hand Pullman or MPV. 

Patrick