mac1960

JRSS

Thank you for your kind comments re my description of the photos and trains.
 

I am just trying to add a little background to the picture / model with how life on the S&C and indeed the Dales was  from all the background reading and books indeed family experience of the line and area at the time. 
 

Cheers

Mac

The up stopper meets the down Thames Clyde Express in Horton which has a clear road today so no Toasted Current Tea Cake today for the station master.

Hard on the heals of the Thames Clyde comes a Stourton to Carlisle freight with Jubilee Sturdee in charge.   

Another shot of the Thames Clyde approaching Horton.

Coming behind the stopper is a fast stepping Class 47 fitted freight from Tinsley to Carlisle Kingmoor in the hands of a newish class 47. I hope the stopper crew dont dally or they will be looped at Blea Moor.

Coming South a Standard 4 heads a PW train down the bank past  the redundant Goods Shed. This was a newly arrived Skipton engine at the time before moving to Tebay and Carnforth. Indeed it pulled the last steam freight over the line in 1968 with a ballast working to Appleby when based at Carnforth.

Following the Standard 4 one of the last 4F heads down the bank with a short train of Limestone on the pick up freight from Carlisle destined for Skipton which picked up from various places on route from Carlisle. This was called the Lodger turn by Skipton drivers as it was a lodging turn to Carlisle, as even though the journey was not long, the shunting at each stop meant a night in the bright lights of Carlisle for the crew, hence the name The Lodger.

The Lodger heads South for home.

A Class 40 roars North at the head of another High Balling (as the Americans say) fitted freight heading for Kingmoor concentration yard from Crew.

Following the Class 40 another fitted freighted freight from the south meets a southbound  express.

A Black 5 from Carlisle comes North with the Bradford to Carlisle stopper coming under the southern occupation bridge.

While the stopper unloads and loads, another Stainer whistle announces to the station and the footpath the arrival of a down empty Coal Train heading back to Yorkshire.

The stopper pulls into Horton to pick up a few local passengers and drop of and pick up parcels. 

I have been away for a bit so have returned and have had the chance due to this wonderful wet and cool English summer (well in this part of Yorkshire anyway) to get back to Horton and run some trains and take some photos.

Well we are still in 1965 in Horton. Lost in Space has just arrived on ITV and the Magic Roundabout has turned up on the BBC with Florence, Dougal and Zebedee and friends including "The Train".  Tom Jones was doing the Green Green Grass of Home in the charts, and the Curlews will have started to return elsewhere along with the Swallows as winter approaches. In Horton little has changed though Pat the Postman no longer has to walk the rounds which stopped a little earlier, when he received a push bike but he now has a Mk 1 Land Rover of which he is extremely proud. On the S&C little has changed, the passenger service remains a little limited, and freight forms the back bone of traffic. The latter which had always been steam preserve has now started to see the encroachment of the modernisation with Diesels taking over even on some of the mundane services.   

A Kingmoor Clayton roles under the Southern Occupation Bridge with an unfitted freight from Skipton to Carlisle. This was a turn of Skipton 4F and Std 4 but was shared with Kingmoor to some degree. The Skipton men called it the "Lodger" though not travelling far it became a lodging turn due to the time at each siding.    

An 8F from Carlisle hurry's a mid afternoon 8F powered Anhydrite freight down the bank through Horton. This is always associated with a 9F for power, however you can find photos of Brits and Class 40 from this period on it,but for me it will always be a steam engine that I associate with it, and a 9F or 8F for traction at that.

Jubilee Hardy comes North with a mixed freight bound for Carlisle going hard at the bank with a freight from Hunslet. The afternoon DMU rolls into Horton from Carlisle on route to Skipton.  

Well a little problem in Horton. The Down Thames Clyde has come to a stop due to a preceding freight having issues on the bank to Blea Moor. As a result there was an unscheduled stop in Horton, which was not an uncommon experience at that time. So much so that it became a tradition for the Station Master Mr Taylor to be presented with a toasted Tea Cake for the inconvenience when this occurred by the staff in the Restaurant Car.  He stood on the platform to make sure nobody alighted mistaking Horton for Carlisle which be a quite amazing mistake !

The DMU picks up Hortons meagre quantities of passengers and heads of south to the bright lights of Skipton. 

The DMU  on the stopper roles off down the bank.

It appears as though the young district nurse, new to the Dales in her "Flashy" White Mini is using the stopper for a short trip to Skipton and shopping for that new Mini Skirt which will be a show stopper in the The Golden Lion, but maybe a bit cool in the coming winter.    

Velocemitch

Thank you for the kind comments. I am not sure if Horton will ever grace a show due to the difficulty in transportation as it was not designed to be a show layout, and as I have said before access too and from the room it’s in and indeed our home can be problematic in certain weather conditions.

It will be featured in the modelling press in the next 12 months or so with far better pictures and more back story.

Cheers

Mac
 

Graeme

Thank you for the kind comments re Horton and I am pleased that you like what we have done and even my ramblings 🙂

Best of luck with your own project and I will keep dropping in to see how you are getting on.

Cheers

Mac

Also remember that the Midland did import brick as well as making locally. Look at the difference between occupation bridges and Road bridges. We used both on Horton as a contrast to end the scenic area.

Another rare visitor to the S&C this time in the form of one of  Patricroft Standard 5 which has obviously been borrowed by Newton Heath to work the Ancoatts to Carlisle via Bolton / Blackburn fitted freight and is coming slowly up the bank. This train did have a reputation of having occasional odd traction with Britannia and 9F also working it. My Grandfather liked std 5 as they were more comfortable for the crews especially in winter. I used to see them a lot when young as they were often coming through West Yorkshire from their Manchester home turf.  

More modern traction follows the Std 5 with a class 24 heading up the bank with an unfitted pick up freight for Carlisle which was known of the S&C as the "Limey" due to the number of quarries it picked up at. Another famous locally named S&C train was the "Bonnieface" which was the daily train to Hawes return from Skipton. It got its name as a lot of the PW staff used it at the end of the day to return home. Alas due to the closure of the Hawes branch in the very early 60,s the "Bonnieface" will not be making an appearance on Horton. Coming down the bank is a diverted Glasgow to Birmingham express with a Crew 40 as traction power.     

The Std 5 has had to stop for a brew up, and is only just getting going when a Mirfield 8F heads south with empty 16t Coal wagons probably destined for Healy Mills which had opened in 1963. The yard had only a diesel depot with steam locomotives being serviced at Wakefield or Mirfield. The later closed in 1967. I have a strong connection with that shed as it lay opposite my Aunts house and I could always watch steam engines there when little. However it was not one of the glamour sheds with WD,8F,Blask 5 as its staple with occasional visitors like 9F.     

Another shot of the little Cl 24 moving slowly up the bank probably making one hell of a racket as Gavin Morrison observed one further up the bank a few years later struggling up the bank and said he it could hear it all the way to Blea Moor !  

Lastly while the STD 5 was getting ready a very new to traffic CL 47 hurry's another diverted West Coast express towards the south and Crew. This was a Crew based engine and she will handing over there to one of the new AC locomotives. Mean while in Horton in this backwater the Curlews sing and a steam struggles on but the clock is ticking its 1965 and there is only two years left for regular steam traffic. This was the year I think when a lot of photographer's suddenly woke up to the beauty of the line and the spectacle of steam being worked hard on heavy trains on its steep gradients. I know my grandfather said it was then they started to notice them more, and in all weathers as well !   

Another diverted express bound for Crew and the South this time a disc head code front. This locomotive was based at Camden at the time but was soon to move North.

Jubilee power on the returning Bradford to Carlisle stopper approaching Horton with Sturdee in charge. Light work for a Jubilee. 

More Jubilee power on a North Bound fitted freight this time Alberta doing the honours so another freight from Leeds area. 

A earlier shot of Sturdee approaching Horton with the Bradford to Carlisle stopping train. Its a very slow way of getting from Carlisle to Bradford but picturesque. 

Another partially fitted freight drifts down through Horton bound for Wakefield with one of their WD in charge.

Sturdee on the stopper is passed by a Glasgow to Leeds Express headed by Solway Firth.

Another shot of the south bound Britannia. I like Brits but they looked better with the larger tender as seen here.

Another shot of Alberta on the fully fitted. She will be struggling a little on the bank with a full load with those big driving wheels but the class were quite widely used on freight out of Leeds in the mid 60;s as we know from photos. My late Grandfather preferred a more sure footed type for climbing so would not have been impressed if rostered for a Jubilee over the S&C no matter how buffed up. Now if going to the Welsh Coast once west of Manchester then “happy days” apparently though climb through the Pennines was a bit tough apparently on a heavy freight or passenger.

Rooke re starts a fully fitted freight at Horton from Stourton. 

An 8F rolls down the bank heading for Hellifield and then the Blackburn line heading for Manchester the engine being from Newton Heath the crew will change at Hellifield. Its passing a North Bound freight from Stourton. 

A Royston WD rolls down hill with a fully fitted freight while another fully fitted heads North with a Carlisle based Cl 40 in charge. 

On 17/05/2024 at 20:18, 25kV said:

Echoing many earlier comments, this is a stunning layout capturing the look and feel of the area perfectly.  I used to travel up the S&C once a month every summer for a few years from Preston on the Lancs/Yorks "Dales Rail" service in the mid-late 1980s, so became very familiar with the landscapes.  But my biggest memory of Horton was a few years later, when on a clear, frosty February day in 1991, I rode up from Leeds on a sprinter, got off and just started walking.  Wasn't sure where I was planning to go, but ended up walking north along the road, surrounded by this very scenery!  (I ended up walking to Blea Moor signal box and catching a return from Ribblehead - bonus ECML diversions unexpectedly bringing HSTs down the line.)

 

I've enjoyed reliving that memory while reading through this thread.  Lovely work!

25kV

Thank you very much for your very generous comments, and we both like that you and others feel as though you are there when viewing the photos that we have posted after having visited / lived in  the area. That is the best compliment a modeller should aim for when modelling an area in what ever place or country. That is what we were aiming for and I hope / think we have succeed but we did have some wobbles on route 😉

Cheers

Mac

JRSS

Some come from the many books and photographs with descriptions of the  trains I have and some is from a long dead Grandfather who was a steam engine driver at Holbeck for a time. Another source is on the internet and is a copy of the train reporting from the South Box at Hellifield in 1961. I can’t quite remember but I think it was put out there by a gentleman modelling Hellifield in 00, but a Google search will find it, I am sure it’s still there. It lists all trains during a 24 hour period in Nov 1961, through there, you just have to filter out the ones heading to or from the Heysham and Lancashire coast and anything originating from Hellifield heading down the Blackburn line the rest is S&C traffic.
 

It does demonstrate the sheer volume of rail freight over the line then, and the relative paucity of passenger traffic with about 6 a day at the time of year we chose to model and that includes a sleeper, where as freight is nearer the 40 plus mark each way with train loads typically at around 35 vans. The volumes out of Stourton and Hunslet alone are remarkable with almost a freight every 2 hrs . Other places further afield were Water Orton , Bescott, Tinsley Ancoatts, Basford Hall, Aintree, Healy Mills to name a few. One of things which did happen was the opening of the big concentration yards during the 60;s like Kingmoor, Healy Mills, etc which led to the grouping of wagons if not full block trains which would come more to the fore later. 
 

Therefore when building up fright trains I will tend to group wagon types together if they are special wagons like Cement for example as it would be unusual to just have one wagon in a train if you understand what I mean. That’s not say it didn’t happen but it perhaps would not be the norm. One thing that is unusual on some S&C traffic was how loaded Coal wagons were sometimes grouped into some semi fitted freight trains where as where I am from in West Yorkshire 1960;s Coal traffic was all in 16ton but only Coal. 
 

Hope that helps or at least does not confuse too much.

Cheers

Mac

Stourton light engine 8F runs home to shed.

The scots interloper heads North with the unfitted.

The 8F wonders off home to Leeds and bed as will I, as it was a very early start. Hope you enjoyed the larger pictures. 

Well took these today with 35mm SLR so see what you think.

Firstly the return Ballast to Leeds with a Class 17

Closely followed by the returning Royal Barge being pushed so they get a driver eye view. 

The Skipton stopper

A meeting of heavy weight steam with Firth of Forth Britannia heading south and A1 Bon Accord re starting her train from a signal check on the bank. Can you imagine the noise of re starting your A1 on the climb, and the vocals with the unlucky signalman who stopped them  !  

Another Britannia  Firth of Clyde rattles past the tail of the Bradford stopper in Horton, with the  Whistle blasting for the pedestrian crossing probably!

Another stranger in town or at least a rare visitor a Scottish 27 brings an unfitted freight North.

The next two are photos of something you used to see quite often but that I have rarely seen modelled, that being a light engine working. In this case a Stourton shed 8F heads  home for shed.  

Time for bed soon for the crew, and indeed me as an early start for an 06.00 flight, what does the 0 stand for, oh my god its early !!
Incidentally Andy from BRM has asked if they can do an article on Horton as well today, so hopefully you will be able to see some better pictures soon.  

I am going to try re shooting some of the above on 35mm SLR and then posting that to see if that allows a larger picture format as the above are small and the details missing sharpness. Will see how we get on this evening.

Cheers

Mac

Well due to a very wet evening I managed to get some more photos done with some different traction as we move forward in time on Horton to 1965.

So the Rolling Stones couldn't get no Satisfaction , and James Bond was in Thunder Ball, though Sound of Music was the biggest grossing in US. In Horton little has changed, the Postman was still walking his rounds, and there was probably no Aston Martins within 70 miles ! However as you will see some things were changing

Firstly a Kingmoor Cl 17 brings the ballast train back South which went North yesterday, maybe the 4F gave out though given CL17 reliability I would not put money on them getting back to Stourton.

The Skipton to Carlisle stopper heads past Horton box to make a quick stop as he is being chased up the Drag by an A1 who,s driver will want to keep up momentum on the climb so will have been gesturing as such already, to various signalman as he started his assent before Horton. 

As soon as the stopper has cleared, we have A1 Bon Accord on a freight heading from Leeds to Kingmoor (there is a photo of this from 1965 in a publication) and Britania  Firth of Forth on another southbound Express.

Last two photos (I promise as I need some sleep too much traveling ) 

Firstly a long coal empties trundles back to Yorkshire with a Royston WD on the front.    

Class 40 D338 of Carlisle Kingmoor heads up the grade and home on a down parcels from Leeds. I always like the split head code EE, Peaks. 

The Thames Clyde Express reverberates through Horton on its ascent with another 7 miles of climbing still to go, while an unfitted freight probably screeches and bangs down the bank with the crew trying with the Guard to keep everything together and the signalman no doubt keeping an eye out for hot boxes with tell tail wisps of smoke or sometimes even sparks.     

The 4F plods past Horton box looking for that promised siding for a brew up. It’s a long way from Stourton on an old locomotive the crew are probably thinking, though at least its not raining yet !   Gavin Morrison (the famous railway photographer on the S&C) must also be about, judging by the Red VW Beatle which was his chariot at the time. Perhaps he cadged a cup of tea and a warm from a good natured Signalman.   

Heavy freights meet with a WD going south for Normanton and home, and an 8F heading for Carlisle Kingmoor and the dreaded Kingmoor Barracks ! 

4F 44044 from Stourton has been dragged North with a short ballast working.

Closely followed by Class 2 46433 of Lancatster with the District Engineers Royal Barge who is know doubt going to view where the previous ballast was going, or its a boys day out !

48608 meets the Skipton stopper.

Another view of the Skipton stopper, but just note how few passengers, or indeed cars are in the car park there back then. I sometimes think people forget how few there were. As an example look at early Sweeney ITV crime programs from early 70,s and that’s central London ! As an observation fewer for this period is better and the same with people in the Dales, though I can always add extra Sheep to a degree. 

Another WD from Wakefield heads for home.

A stranger in Horton as A1 Archibald Thurrock rattles an express southbound covering for a failed Cl 45 know doubt, or it could be the Gourock to Leicester special.    

Saltley Depot Cl 25 7582 comes up the grade on a lose coupled freight while another freight heads south.   

Another re built on the Bradford. These will change to Britannia and Clan classes over the next few years before the services demise.

Not sure why but back on small photos. Here we have WD 90243 heading down the bank with a partially fitted freight so know doubt a bit of screeching and banging of couplings going on and the cylinder cocks open using a breath of steam to keep the cylinders warm during the 12 mile descent open which left melted snow on the up tracks in winter. 

Fredrick Harrison of Kingmoor again on the Carlisle to Bradford stopper.  

48608 of Mirfield comes up the bank with another semi fitted freight. The leading vehicles are China Clay hoods so she must have been borrowed somwhere. 

Sir Fredrick again drifting nonchalantly down the bank.

I had to go back East so hope to get some more testing when back later next week.

Well unfortunately a little trip East due to some weather related issues you may have heard of  has buggered up Horton testing. However now back and hope to post some photos later this week.

Cheers

Mr Mac

Well I have just got back from my travels and Horton is up and running with no issues so far at my home. I need to test run a number of locomotives, but so far this evening all the 8F , Scots , Austerity, 4F , CL45 / 46, 40, 33; 25,26 ,17 are fine. The 9F of which I have 3 were more problematic with only 1nr  behaving itself for the Photo session the other week - pony truck issues.  Britanias can also have issues , though out of 6 , 3 run well. As for the Jubilee and Class 5 we had same issues, which is annoying as they are both associated with the S&C and we have a number. One Jubilee Alberta ran very well, the others and the Black Fives not so , but we will see. But the rebuilt Scot no issues. You do have to wonder about some of the QA/QC sometimes.
 

However the other steam CL 2, 4 ran fine along with Std 5 for some reason. Our lone A1 was also good 👍 

Generally diesels run well and the more complex valve geared steam locomotives seem to have more issues. Anyway we will see over the coming days or rather evenings. Once I have run up all the locomotives I will then start to make up the trains though will clean track beforehand obviously, and do a wheel cleaning exercise. There are no problems with clearances or points which is good after the big move.
 

Glad to be home and very pleased to have Horton back 👍👍

Cheers