stuclark

My 7 car set turned up today as well. I've got to say that for a brand new model, it's not all that much more detailed than the 1980s original, and the huge capacitor clearly visible in each car is inexcusable.

But what's getting me most are the pantographs - one of the ones on the 7 car set was broken in delivery and I've had to glue back together, but neither of those, nor the one on my separate powered NDM will actually go up and stay up. They all feel like cheap cr*p, especially compared to the full metal version in the '80s original.

Is there a trick to getting these pantographs to work that I'm missing?

I hadn't read the other post about Hattons cancelling pre-orders; but I note on that thread that Hattons were actually explaining the situation and offering appologies.

They didn't do that to me; so I still stand by their CS being less than acceptable.

As to whether we should have to order directly from Hornby - that's a different argument that *almost* isn't relevent here - it is how the retailer deals with issues which is the subject I posted about...

Hattons took it upon themselves to cancel my Hornby APT pre-order today - they didn't bother phoning or sending me a personal email; I just got a generic one with no detail at all!

So I phoned them - the first time they said "oh yeah, we've cancelled it because we didn't get the stock allocation we wanted"; then *went to check something* and hung up! The second phone call, I got someone else who sounded like he couldn't care less. Didn't offer any further explanation - said "no, you'll never be able to order it from us" and was absolutely un-interested in the appalling customer service!

My pre-order was made with Hattons the day the model became available for pre-order in 2020 - it certainly wasn't "out of stock for pre-order" when I ordered it; and I didn't place an order directly with Hornby because I trusted Hattons.

Turns out that was a mistake! I've now re-ordered directly with Hornby, but I'm now at the back of the queue, and who knows - I may never now receive the model - all because Hattons cocked up!

Having received my catalouge this morning; I can confirm it is no more use at all in working out exact vehicle numbers in each set.

The best info we have (because the catalouge doesn't even make this clear) is that the 7 car set is essentially a 5 car set with the addition of a NDM and APT-U vehicles

A jet engine and an old steam pump are two very different things. A jet engine is made to very tight tolerances, using finely made parts that will be pushed to their material limits when in use. They use very expensive heat resistant materials that have to undergo a lot of QC checks. Sure it can be done but the money, specialised skills and technology for it are great.

On the other hand a 19th century steam pump, is really rustic in comparison, heavily over engineered and will almost last forever. It uses quite common materials. Perhaps you might to scratch around to find someone still making cast iron but it should still be easier to find, and in the worst case there are cast steel of brass substitutes. The problem with building or restoring anything these days that dates from the steam age is simulating the original construction process and materials.

Steels in the 1930s were manufactured to strengths of + or - 2%. In the Second World War it became + or - 10% because basically we needed lots of steel now that was not going to last long! These days we are finer than that.

Recently a replica working canon from that used in a Elizabethan warship was found to be much much stronger than as they were historically stated. While the material itself is the same on paper, modern manufacturing processes optimised the design. We have much finer control in making the material itself, while no one these days is going to cut a canon bore by hand and we can make the bore dead centre. All of which removed any potential weaknesses in the material itself or caused by part of the bore being off centre along a part of its length.

They got a Vulcan flying for a short time. But this shows the economics. For the price of restoring an APT-E to working order, we could probably bring back several diesel or steam locomotives.

If we take turbomotive as a comparison, while she was a tad cheaper in day to day running, she cost three times as much to build compared with an ordinary Princess primarily because of the costs in making steam turbines vs ordinary pistons.

 

Sure I would love to see APT-E run again, but I would also like to see HMS Hermes saved or a Type 12 frigate. Unfortunately finding big donators for these things is very problematical. It would probably be easier to bring APT-P back but even that looks far off.

I'm  not saying they are the same thing; but to think that a steam pump which has a 90 inch diameter piston; weighing a total of about 200 tons and able to move over 500 gallons of water in under 4 seconds is a "rustic" toy is very much mistaken. No, the engineering tollerances are not the same, but a lot of the theory is - it's about sourcing or re-making parts where they're not available, and finding expertise to acheive your goals.

Kit says there's no one around who worked on the traction systems - that's a great big issue; but ... there are people in the world with enough experience in turbine / alternator sets and associated technologies to be able to essentially re-engineer what exists. The biggest issue with this is money.

It would not be impossible (only expensive and complicated) to completely re-engineer PC1 with modern turbines and control equipment. No it wouldn't be authentic, but it would be operational. .... just an item for discussion ...

(oh, and as someone who actually drove 4472 when Tony Marchington owned her; I can't understand how the NRM managed to spend quite so much money on the restoration (Tony spent almost £2m restoring her in '99) - serious mis-management springs to mind)

If someone were to donate a couple of million quid, APT-E could run again.

From what I understood when talking to Kit at Warley, there's nothing fundamentally wrong that can't be cured with money. Yes, turbines are in short supply, but they can be re-built or re-engineered with enough cash.

...the Vulcan flew again and I've personally restored very large steam (pumping) engines which people said could never work again; so never say never for APT-E

Actually, I bet "P train" could run again as well with enough cash...

Here's a somewhat refined version, with transparent background:

This is a very quick and quite dirty clean up; but here's my first 30 minutes of playing with the logo from Kit's picture