AlyP

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Hang onto them.  They might be collectable items worth a fortune in few years time ...  but I'm still waiting for manual typewriters to be worth something

Ahem:  https://www.mrmrsvintagetypewriters.com/collections/pre-1950s

(rather overpriced but they have been fully refurbished)

38 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

You may be right but wouldn’t that mean that import duty was being paid twice on the same goods? Once in the UK and again in Spain. My brain hurts 

It would, unless the UK seller reclaims the import duty paid in the UK under Inward Processing Relief. More paperwork/red tape...

1 minute ago, LimboBrit said:

What is the definition of “origin”? Where they’re shipped from? Where they were made?

Where they were made. So from 1/1/21 anything manufactured, grown, or fished, in the EU is tariff-free into the UK, and vice-versa. Subject to the Rules of Origin set out in 114 pages of the the FTA.

1 minute ago, irishmail said:

This is part of the text from the RTE news article that i posted earlier.   The text I have highlighted in bold appears confusing, as an example I buy a Hornby or Bachmann loco from Hatton's  a UK retailer, however the loco is made in China so not UK origin?  So much for free trade agreement. 

 

 

"Since Brexit took effect on 1 January, new rules have been implemented that will see VAT and Excise Duty being applied to many transactions.

Purchases under €22 will not face additional charges, but anything over €22 will see the addition of an Irish VAT charge.

Goods valued at more than €150 will also be subject to customs duty. The amount to be charged will vary depending on the nature of the item.

Consumers are also being warned that only goods bought from the UK that are of UK origin will avoid tariffs under the Free Trade Agreement in place.

So, if goods sourced outside the EU are being sold by a British seller to an Irish consumer, tariffs and other charges can be applied."

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0105/1187897-retail-brexit/

As model railways are subject to a 0% rate of Customs Duty in the EU, as in the UK, not a problem.

12 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Sadly no Philip.

 

As I tried to explain above, Hornby, Bachmann, Maerklin etc. can import from China import duty free since the tariff for model railways is zero.  That however is for commercial (business to business) transactions.  For private purchases (you or me buying from a UK model shop) duty will become applicable if the landed value (cost plus transport plus insurance plus handling) is above €150.  The €150 limit applies to all goods (fags and booze excepted) irrespective of what their commercial import tariff may be.  

If I may clarify:

Customs Duty is 0% on any import of model railways, whether or not it is a commercial transaction. It applies equally to business to business, business to consumer, and private to private, transactions.

Customs Duty does not vary according to the type of transaction, but is based solely on what the goods are, and for certain types of goods, where they came from and/or their origin of manufacture.

6 minutes ago, Philou said:

@AlyP As you seem to have the finger on the pulse, can I ask if it will be similar, but for UK to EU goods? I ask as I, and a good few others on RMWeb, live now in the EU.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Philip

I assume the current rules are now that imports from the UK would be treated the same as they are for imports from, say, Switzerland or the US - you'd be assessed for VAT on the parcel, and have to pay it and any handling fee before delivery.

For the rules from 1st July for a sale by a UK business to an EU customer see https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/new-ecommerce-eu-vat-rules-july-2021.html

and search the page for 'Brexit' - the rules seem much the same, except the limit is €150, not £135.

Alistair

There appears to be some confusion over various matters.

To summarise, assuming the import is into the UK:

1 All imports of goods are subject to Customs Duty and VAT. The chargeable rates applicable vary according to what the goods are.

This is the case whether the import is purchased from a business or a private individual, or received as a gift.

2 Model railways are classified under Commodity Code 9503003000 :  ‘Electric trains, including tracks, signals and other accessories therefor; reduced-size (scale) model assembly kits.’. Customs Duty is at 0% (the same for imports into the EU) and VAT is due at 20%.

3 The value on which the VAT is chargeable is the landed price, being the purchase price plus the cost of shipping to the UK.

4 A gift package, containing 1 or more items, with a total landed value of £39 or less is free of Customs Duty and VAT. Any gift package worth more than £39 is subject to Customs Duty and VAT as appropriate. A handling fee will doubtless be charged by the carrier.

5 The previous Low Value Consignment Relief for goods valued £15 or less has been abolished

Example 1:  Buying directly from a non-UK business, landed value of total consignment £135 or less.

Non-UK business should be registered for UK VAT and charge it. It should show its VAT number on the Customs declaration on the package, and Royal Mail or the carrier should just deliver it with no handling fee. If the non-UK supplier does not declare a valid UK VAT number, the VAT charge will be assessed, the carrier will normally require payment of the VAT charge before delivery, and will charge a handling fee.

Example 2:  Buying from a non-UK business via an Online Marketplace (OMP), such as eBay, landed value of total consignment £135 or less.

The OMP will charge and account for UK VAT.

Example 3:  Buying from a non-UK business, landed value more than £135.

The VAT charge will be assessed, the carrier will normally require payment of the VAT charge before delivery, and will charge a handling fee.

Example 4:  Buying from a non-UK private individual, of any value.

The VAT charge will be assessed, the carrier will normally require payment of the VAT charge before delivery, and will charge a handling fee.

Low value items bought from a non-UK business that has not registered for VAT, or from a non-UK private individual, will still suffer the usual Royal Mail sting for £8. Any modeller buying low value items from the US already knows the pain of that.

Second-hand goods sold UK to UK:  A business seller can choose to use a VAT margin scheme, but is not obliged to do so.

Alistair

2 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

I know we are all concerned about this from a UK perspective, but the UK is just a test run for the same chaos being applied across the whole of the EU from July 2021. If I read this correctly the rules apply to transactions within the EU.

 

https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/new-ecommerce-eu-vat-rules-july-2021.html

The EU has been talking about doing this for years and preparing for it, and all the the Member States agreed (including the UK at the time). It resolves problems with disparities between different countries VAT rates, mollifies certain States who thought they were getting the raw end of the deal in not getting their own VAT, and simplifies VAT registration to a single one, the One Stop Shop. Configuring websites for pricing depending on country of destination will be "fun". 

As far as non-EU suppliers, such as UK ones, are concerned, if they decide to ignore it on shipments worth less than €150 then the customer will still have to pay VAT to the appropriate Customs administration but probably a handling fee as well.

Any EU supplier who decides to ignore the new rules on sales to other EU countries will come unstuck on their next tax audit.

9 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Ok

 

As an example, using simple if a little unlikely numbers,  if someone could answer this, so I might get my head round it

 

If I buy a product from the EU and the total cost is €195, my credit card rate is £1 = €1.50. 

The sterling cost is £130

HMRC have set their rate at £1=€1.20 ( not that I know this at the time)

The sterling cost is now £162.50

 

Now as far as I'm concerned I am below the £135 limit. HMRC think otherwise

 

How much would I have to pay extra using HMRC's exchange rate compared to my credit card rate?

 

Andy

Andy

You'd pay an additional £6.50 PLUS the £8 Royal Mail handling charge. The law, and HMRC, pay no heed to what your card rate is.

On 03/01/2021 at 12:48, Miserable said:

It's worse than that : a business selling to the UK now has to pay to register with the UK to supply to the to the UK, and that business is expected to collect taxes on behalf of the UK government. This is unique in the world. William Shatner (yes, that one) and a Dutch cycle parts supplier are two examples of businesses who have decided to simply not to sell to the UK as a result. I don't suppose they will be the only ones.

Australia and Norway already had similar systems. I suspect larger firms have stopped selling to private customers in the UK for the moment because their software needs to be amended to cope - this is not something that can be done with the flick of a switch, and the details of the new rules have only just been announced.

As someone who dealt with this...stuff for nearly 40 years (and is thankfully retired - the last time I spoke to my old boss mention of Brexit produced inarticulate screaming, and he’s a VP of in-house tax):

1 EU suppliers should no longer charge their local VAT. This shouldn’t be a shock to them as they would already be doing that for shipments to Switzerland, etc.

2 If goods, including shipping cost, are less than £135 the non-UK business supplier should register for, and charge, UK VAT and show its VAT number on the Customs declaration. Unknown is whether Royal Mail will still sting you for a handling fee for such goods under £135. If they don’t register then existing process and Royal Mail fee applies.

3 Goods valued over £135 including shipping cost will continue to be processed via Royal Mail and the fee charged.

4 HMRC rates of exchange for imports are set monthly.

5 The £15 non-EU Low Value Consignment Relief is abolished  - this is to counter the Chinese supplier habit of falsely declaring shipments as valued at $1. The EU had been making noises for years about doing away with this relief in any case.

6 If you buy online from a non-UK business seller using a MOP (Online Marketplace) such as eBay, then eBay will charge and account for the UK VAT, not the supplier. If it is a private seller, then existing procedure applies (so VAT and the Royal Mail handling fee). Nasty.

7 Tariffs - goods are only tariff-free (no Customs Duty) if they meet the Rules of Origin for goods produced in the EU or UK. These are set out in 114 pages of the Trade Agreement. If the goods don’t meet the Rules of Origin, Customs Duty will be payable same as for any import from, for example, the US. At the moment there is no Customs Duty on model railways.

Alistair

Thanks Nigel, serves me right for searching via Google.

Having crunched the numbers, as the Rapid tape in question is thicker than those referred to in earlier threads (approximately 4oz., not 1 oz, copper), voltage drop should not be a problem. Any larger layout would be wired (and have proper baseboards).

Alistair

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I would like to have the bus and feeders on the top of the layout as (inspired by NHY 581, Rob, of this parish) the layout will use Lack shelves or tables as a base, and will be a small shunty plank (6 foot including fiddle).
 
Some people use copper tape for the power bus. What width/thickness is recommended? Rapid have 5mm wide by 0.1mm thick non-conductive adhesive backed copper tape https://www.rapidonline.com/rapid-cts05-50m-copper-foil-adhesive-tape-5mm-x-50m-34-0636, and claim a maximum power rating of 99W. The tape and feeders (24SWG) would be buried in ballast/scenery (once it's working properly). Would this be OK?

1. I'll be using a NCE PowerCab with HO or 00. NCE state it outputs 13.6V and up to 2A.
2. A maximum of two locos, with sound, at a time, but usually just the one.

Thanks for any help

Alistair