purplepiepete

Not clear from the information but if this is a dry cleaning operation which is causing the fumes then I would think this could be serious, and an urgent issue for Environmental Health.

Hope Phil has no long term health issues from this.

Pete.

Caption as attached to the photo :

Photo of a Porthywaen Lime Co 10 ton wagon parked in a siding at Porthywaen, date unknown. Many of the early wagons had wooden underframes, some with dumb-buffers, whilst later wagons had steel channel underframes. An interesting relic to be seen at Porthywaen until the early 1960's was a dumb-buffered open wagon with a "primitive roof". The foreman at the works stated in 1952 that it was used for the storage of salt and had been standing in the same place for 50 years.

Assume it went for scrap in the 60's - what a pity it wasn't saved ! 

Pete.

Another interesting photo from the Oswestry Borderland website showing a Porthywaen Lime Co wagon amongst others, including a coke wagon, at the sidings in Porthywaen.

Not conclusive at all but I wonder if this also points to the coke wagons being redeployed for stone ?

Not sure,  however I wonder if coke was used to fire the Hoffmann kiln at Llanymynech ?

Pete.

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

5050 refers to that photo earlier in the thread. The next question is, which is the correct way around?

Perhaps that will help with the correct location. 

Ah yes of course, I missed that. TBH I still think it's in the Llanymynech area as this loco was shedded at Oswestry, never, as far as I know, Croes Newydd (Wrexham) which would have served the Minera location.

However I may be completely wrong !

https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2014/08/croes-newydd-1938-1967.html

https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2014/08/oswestry-1938-1964.html

Excellent website (link above) to shed allocations

Oddly I have just found this photo on the 'Disused Stations' website which has, what appears to be, the same photo in reverse ! 

It is captioned 'Lime Train leaving Minera' which is near Wrexham. Confused now !

Pete. 

Further view of the 'kiln corner' with a couple of old mineral wagons for visual effect. As you can see the track is a bit of a way off completion and scenery is just loosely placed at the moment.

Cheers, Pete.

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

I did say "might be" HC Casserley.

 

I just have a feeling it was one of his as I'm pretty sure that photo was in one of the Casserley books on BR locomotives. Called something like GWR Locomotives in 1948.

 

But I might be mistaken about that as well as it's a long time since I looked at that book.

 

The photo is well known though. It's not rare and unpublished.

 

 

 

Jason

Fair point Jason, and photos don't always reproduce very well when scanned or copied to web pages, so good chance it's by HCC. I'll see if I can find a copy of the book - probably a long shot though.

Cheers, Pete.

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Definitely looks to be the same loco as in a photo with a coke wagon in Mike Lloyd's book, which is attributed to R M Camwell. Not the same photo, just the loco and two coke wagons. This one is definitely Porthywaen, as Mike specifically identifies the location as being beside the incline to Cooper's Sidings with Porthywaen halt in the background and notes buildings on the right as being crushers serving Peartree Top siding and Little Crusher siding. The photo posted above is not actually in Mike's book.

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan, interesting information. The loco was a regular in the area in the 40's until withdrawn from Oswestry shed, I think, in the early 1950's. I wonder if, as suggested, the photo is by H C Casserley ? It looks a bit 'amateurish' though for a professional photographer. The coke wagons are interesting. I wonder if they were actually carrying coke for the kilns, or related lime industry, or they had been requisitioned for stone traffic. 

Pete.

6 hours ago, 5050 said:

I think I've seen that photo credited as being taken at a couple of locations including, in reverse, at Minera.   IMHO they're definitely coke wagons - but are we certain it is taken at Porth-y-waen?  What is the structure top right?  Locos of that type were, I believe, shedded at Oswestry - but also at Croes Newydd.  Pity the number isn't readable.

 

Interesting that you're building a layout based on the area.  It's somewhere I've always had an interest in, especially as we lived in Oswestry 1970/71 and I often cycled up and down the Tanat valley.  Can you provide any details on your project?

Early days - disused scratch built lime kiln (based on Nantmawr) just placed in position at the moment to fill a corner.

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 I think it's this bridge. The one shown on your map was more of a short cut and cover tunnel.

 

Ah yes - that looks more like it although the photo only shows a single track. However given the much later date (assume the map is much earlier) then this is possible.

Complex and confusing arrangement of track work ! Hard to say which is tramway and which is std gauge !

Cheers, Pete

3 hours ago, 5050 said:

I think I've seen that photo credited as being taken at a couple of locations including, in reverse, at Minera.   IMHO they're definitely coke wagons - but are we certain it is taken at Porth-y-waen?  What is the structure top right?  Locos of that type were, I believe, shedded at Oswestry - but also at Croes Newydd.  Pity the number isn't readable.

 

Interesting that you're building a layout based on the area.  It's somewhere I've always had an interest in, especially as we lived in Oswestry 1970/71 and I often cycled up and down the Tanat valley.  Can you provide any details on your project?

The original photo specifies 'Whitehaven' (probably Pear Tree) quarry, and I think I have identified the location. On the screen shot attached (copyright 'old-maps') I believe the bridge carries the tramway over the line. The layout is in the early stages, and will only be a shelf layout, but I have turnouts built and plain track on the go. It will be more of a finescale representation of the area rather than a specific location as I don't have the space to do this. Will post some pics in a month or two. I live in the Clwydian Range so not too far away, although little to see now other than a short restored section at Nantmawr.

2 hours ago, Quarryscapes said:

 

Definitely carrying coke for the kilns, stone went out in open wagons, lime for agricultural use either in peak roofed wagons or sheeted opens.  If you haven't already, get hold of Mike Lloyd's tanat valley book and Private Owners on the Cambrian. Loads of photos and some drawings.

 

 

Locomotive is 1331, ex Whitland & Cardigan railway, thoroughly molested at Swindon, which was shedded at Oswestry for work on the Porthywaen branch throughout the 40s. I'd say it's certainly in the vicinity of Porthywaen, though the quarry lines are so extensive where precisely I cannot say! 

Interestingly the photo caption, which I now have from the link sent by petethemole, specifies a stone train ! Screen shot as here. Could well be a mistake of course as it must have been awkward unloading stone from coke wagons ! I think the older traditional kilns had ceased operations in the 1920's / 30's however I may be wrong. Not sure if the more modern types were coke fired ? Given access problems to the area from the former Cambrian and Potts lines it seems unlikely that large quantities of coke would have been brought in by rail.

3 hours ago, petethemole said:

On this site, http://www.oswestry-borderland-heritage.co.uk/?page=57

the photo caption has the load as stone.  Lime kilns in the vicinity seem to have closed by then.

Ah thanks for that, and it does seem to confirm quarry stone, rather than coke, was the load.

Pete.

32 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

Coke wagons. This and other useful photos appear in Mike Lloyd's Tanat Valley book. I haven't got my copy with me at the moment, but judging from the pic these are mostly permanent coke wagons, rather than convertible ones. RCH allowed for fixed or removeable ones in the 1923 spec. 

Agreed and it's obvious now ! Guess these were re-deployed then for carrying quarry stone, unless there was a demand for coke (or coal) at the quarries ?

Thanks

Pete.

3 hours ago, doilum said:

The date might be the clue. A shortage of wagons resulting in modified coke wagons being used for coal or stone. Common sense applied to avoid overloading?

Yes I hadn't thought of that - just post war there would have been a shortage of wagons resulting in re-deployments.

Thanks,

Pete.

3 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Coke raves. Similar to this

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/7-plank-wagon-coke-rails-br-p-no-(ex-po)-'cory-brothers'-[w]/37-185a

Ah yes, perfect thanks !

Pete.

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Plenty XPO minerals with coke rails about in those days, but I can’t think of reason for them at a limestone quarry.  Industrial scale lime kilns burning coke perhaps?

This is very possible, and they do look like coke wagons, so not actually for quarry use

The other photos I have from around that time all show either 'standard' minerals or early pattern hopper wagons for moving the stone. There were certainly large lime kilns in

the area but I thought they were out of use by the time this photo was taken.

11 hours ago, PMP said:

From that image I’d guess they are modified RCH 1923 seven plank wagons.

Thanks PMP, that's what I suspected. Hard to tell from the photo but it looks like they have had at least a further 2 or 3 planks added !

Pete

Could anyone identify the wagons in the attached photo ? I can identify the loco and the location, Whitehaven, which is one of the Shropshire quarries in the Porth-y-waen / Nantmawr area but not the wagons.

I am currently building an EM gauge model based on the area, 1950's era, which is around when the photo was taken in 1949.

I initially thought these were ex NER/LNER 21T wooden hoppers with the very high sides, however the strapping and general profile don't look right. They may of course be 'specials' just built for internal use or modified 7/8 planks ?

Thanks in advance !

Pete.

PS I would credit the photo copyright if I knew who it was ! Maybe a local history website ?

18 hours ago, 57xx said:

Hi Pete,

 

Unfortunately it didn't work. The second V hanger/brake lever also snapped. Not sure if I left it too long to cool down or not. Managed to glue it together again to be usable and went for single sided brake gear on this particular kit.

 

cheers

Ric

Hi Ric,

Ah that's a shame. Suspect it's down to the plastic type rather than the technique. Chairs, I think, are ABS - I did thread them very quickly onto the rail once they were out of the water, and did notice that they had hardened quickly on cooling, maybe a couple of minutes at most. Maybe worth another go and experiment with some scraps of sprue ?

On 28/12/2020 at 14:15, 57xx said:

 

Interesting, I might have to try this on some Slaters wagon kits I got recently. The plastic is shockingly brittle (new stock, not 40 years old!) to the point it was almost impossible to cut some pieces off the sprue without breakage.

Good to hear how you get on as not at all sure if it works for any/all plastic types. I am no expert but guess there are a number, ABS, nylon, polythene etc used for injection moulding ?

Pete.

21 hours ago, Izzy said:

I think the danger with the rail on the inside of curves is that it will always try and sit up straight, or even lean/cant outwards. Unless you are careful it can pull the inside chair base upwards due to the cant angle so I always arch the rail length a bit before attempting to curve to suit. The outer rail doesn’t need this of course it will just cant inwards as intended.  It’s not the end of the world though, just gives a bit of gauge widening....

 

Izzy

Thanks Izzy, the curves should not be too severe (and in theory need a check rail) so hopefully will avoid this, but will take extra care on the inside rail and use the better quality chairs on that side to ensure a good chair to rail / sleeper grip.

Quick update - I tried the hot water (boiling in my case) soak and was surprised how effective this was. 

I didn't really expect ageing plastic to respond too well, but having put about 10 sprues (100 chairs) into a mug of boiling water, leave for about 5 mins, the chairs were a lot less brittle.

Not sure how long they stay more pliable, or the optimum immersion / water temp time, but working quickly to thread them after careful recovery from the hot dipping they went on without too much breakage.

Thanking Neil for the tip !

Pete.

15 hours ago, roythebus said:

Semmingly asking the obvious, are you putting the rail in the right way up? Many of us have tried to thread chairs on rails then found the rail was wrong way up! Also file a slight taper on the end of the rail before threading chair, it makes life easier.

Roy, yep always check that - and the taper - but it's a mistake I have made in the past, usually by not having my correct glasses on !

Thanks for the all the hints and tips, time to go and give it all a try