Lineas Cubanas

On 27/04/2024 at 14:17, Not Jeremy said:

 

I visited Matt this morning to discuss getting his layout "Les Caves du Roy"down to Larkhall on the 13th July.

 

The subject is unusual to say the least, and I can honestly say that Matt has created one of the best and most visually striking model railways that I have ever seen in my life. Easily up there with Gravett, Rice and any other of the many talented individuals that grace this hobby.

 

I must point out that Simon was under the influence of a very strong double espresso so I am very dubious of his claims to say the least!

On 27/04/2024 at 13:55, Not Jeremy said:

Thank you Matt for letting me see this fantastic piece of work this morning, ahead of its appearance at Larkrail on the 13th July.

 

I won't steal Matt's thunder, and I am no photographer, but here is a snap that hopefully gives some idea of just how very good this model is.

 

 

Just this layout alone is reason enough to visit Larkrail on the 13th - I am really looking forward to seeing it all set up. Matt is working on various "audio visual" touches that will truly bring it to life.

 

Just an astonishingly good creation, real jaw dropping stuff....

 

Simon

No problem, Simon

Thanks for coming down and the kind words, much appreciated

See you on the 13th!

On 01/02/2024 at 18:10, Lineas Cubanas said:

Moving onto motive power for painting and weathering, the first to go into the shop will be:

 

My "Homer Simpson" calamity approach to the Moyse locotracteur continues.....

When removing the cab and hood for painting, it was proving quite stiff and required a bit more force ..... before I knew it I had accidentally disconnected some wires to the power pack which was actually hidden in the back hood.......who knew!?

After several attempts to re solder the wires in the correct order and eventually just melting the connection, followed by smoke.......

I now have a technical question: Do I need the power pack to run the loco?

The DCC/Sound motherboard etc are working fine

According to REE models: "The power pack does not directly power your machine, it manages the power supply weaknesses of the tracks"

Do I need to replace the power pack with the exact one from REE Models or would the DCC loco work without it?

Thanks

19 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

A tank like that would need to be bunded.  Essentially a low wall around it so that in the event of a leak, the contents would not just flow everywhere.

 

Otherwise, I love that as a screen for the exit.

19 hours ago, stivesnick said:

In addition to a bund, there would also be some pipes and possibly pumps. Various 3D suppliers produce these.

 

Nick 

I do listen ......

Your feedback : added the low wall around the tank and some pipe detail (there is not really room for anymore)

My feedback : added bushes in far background and repainted the tank to a more "anonymous" colour i.e. no longer standing out.

As I said in a previous post, I was unhappy with the "exit" to the staging yard and how it looked. As a reminder, here is how it use to look:

After considering ways to minimize the transition, this is how it looks now:

I will probably add some grass around the bottom of the oil tank where it meets the concrete slabs as it looks unnatural in the photo........

And maybe some more bushes at the end of the building in the background

Thanks to everyone who contributed with ideas.

PS: Having looked at the photos for a while now, I am starting to think the tall oil tank needs to be less conspicuous i.e. a dull and bland grey.....think it might be standing out too much right now........

On 01/02/2024 at 18:58, long island jack said:

looks like there's a mount for a front coupler 

https://www.latelierdutrain.com/alimentation-2-rails/135972-locotracteur-y-2110-vert-301-mediterranee-sncf-ep-iv-digital-son-ree-mb-148s-ho-187.html

On 01/02/2024 at 19:03, Andy Hayter said:

Moyse locotracteurs have coupling both ends.  

 

If REE have shown just one it's to minimise the impact of the rather ugly European coupling.  A second can certainly be fitted:

On 01/02/2024 at 19:53, stivesnick said:

 

Hi 

 

I asked a similar question on the American section on this site. 

 

Nick 

OK ........THIS IS EMBARRASSING.....THERE IS ANOTHER COUPLER IN THE BOX FOR THE FRONT OF THE LOCO!

DOH!

A quick photo of the layout to distract from the idiot I am .........

Moving onto motive power for painting and weathering, the first to go into the shop will be:

I have a quick question:

I noticed the Moyse Locotracteur only has coupling on the rear (and no front coupling). Obviously, this makes sense .....as if there was one on the front, I guess they couldn't see around/beyond any rolling stock it was pushing.

For trailing spurs thats all fine....what happens with a facing spur?

In real life, did they just use a different loco for facing spurs or am I missing something really obvious here?

On 31/01/2024 at 20:57, Gypsy said:

Petrol, in my experience of warzones, tends to burn not explode. Certainly the Hollywood trope of a car exploding when a bullet hits it is BS. Petroleum vapour on the other hand does explode, but even that is surprisingly hard to do. 

 

The tank on the left has been hit by something that penetrated from the outside, though the creasing at the bottom of the hole does suggest a decent sized blast.

 

The one one the right shows something either went bang inside or went straight through it. But the shrapnel holes don't fit with a fuel explosion so I would go with the latter.

 

The lack of blast/flash scorching to the paintwork of both wagons also suggests that the damage is unrelated to any former contents.

 

Knowing a little about Beirut, I would hazzard a guess at target practice or merely bored militiamen with access to too many dangerous toys.

On 31/01/2024 at 21:09, Andy Hayter said:

 This one possibly is due to an internal blast of the vapour in an empty tank maybe pierced with an incendiary or tracer  munition.  Empty tanks can be very much more dangerous than full ones for the reasons you say.

 

I was probably being "tongue in cheek" when I posted the photo suggesting it was caused by petrol exploding.....

The actual photo description suggests they have been "destroyed by artillery"

These tank cars were photographed in the yard at Tripoli Station in Northern Lebanon, which is not too far from the Syrian Border. The Syrian occupation of Lebanon began in 1976 , during the Syrian intervention in the Lebanese Civil War, and ended on April 30, 2005, after the Cedar Revolution. The tank cars came from Poland : 18 in 1975 and 30 in 1983.

So putting the above together with your thoughts might provide a possible explanation of what happened........

4 minutes ago, Dunalastair said:

though spilled petrol sounds like bad news in a war zone.

er ......yes

On 30/01/2024 at 13:17, steve45 said:

"The only other wagons I have some nagging doubt with are these 2 x tank cars below, not sure why…….?" - perhaps is it that there are no apparent dribbles from the filler cap area?

On 30/01/2024 at 13:27, Andy Hayter said:

Are they gas or liquid tankers?  To my inexpert eye they look like gas - butane or propane - in which case there will be no dribbles but perhaps some rain washed staining.

Thanks for the feedback 

They are petrol tankers so yes, I think they could benefit from some stains/dribbles etc, maybe they are a bit too clean around the ladders as well.....

On 30/01/2024 at 13:17, steve45 said:

 

Your very modest....

 

Perhaps you can point us in the direction of what methods / materials you have used so we can explore further 

I will try and put together some kind of tutorial post .......will probably be on a loco as most of the rolling stock is done.

Have never weathered or painted a loco in my life so far so could have disaster written all over it......

16 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Excellent weathering, quite a transformation.  And an allegory of life 🙂

13 hours ago, steve45 said:

Superb, have you thought of doing tutorials on here?

Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate it.

To be honest, I am not as confident with painting/weathering rolling stock (and motive power) as with scenery and buildings…….I just tend to “make it up as I go along”

Fortunately, with regards to the rolling stock it seems to have gone ok so far. I have pretty much finished the roster of 20 or so wagons. I need to go back and refine/add a few details to some but they are pretty much done. There was only one wagon I was massively unhappy with so I stripped off all the weathering and will hopefully give it another go this week….

The only other wagons I have some nagging doubt with are these 2 x tank cars below, not sure why…….?

On the layout, I have pretty much decided on trees now .......

And hope to start painting/weathering the motive power next …….yikes!

15 hours ago, doctor quinn said:

I think the posters work to establish the time and location, they're evident in the prototype pictures earlier in the thread.

Yes, agreed with the time and location, just think sometimes they can be a bit "twee".

I think the Almaza (beer) one is a bit too modern so sometimes less is more....

23 hours ago, Gypsy said:

Stunning. The only time I visited Beirut was a fair bit after the period you're modelling but you have definitely captured the mashaeir ('vibe') that I remember.

17 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

 

This is absolutely phenomenal work! And I love the choice of subject, as I'm a fan of modelling "off the beaten track"!

 

I have to say that having read your concern about the brightness of colours of buildings clashing with the backdrop, I think this photo shows that it's perfect, artistically - the colourful buildings where the sun is coming through, and the dark clouds over the Green Line area, I think it perfect both visually and metaphorically.

Thanks for the compliments and thanks for taking the time to tell me!

On 12/01/2024 at 12:28, doctor quinn said:

Hobbytec Modelismo (Brazil) do a body and frame kit for a GL8 but I think the hood might be too high.  The recommended drive is an Atlas Alco switcher which show up at quite reasonable prices on eBay.

 

 http://hobbytec.com.br/paginas/produtos/visualizar_produto.php?cod_prod=9

 

(R$ is Brazilian Reals R$160 is about £25)

I think this loco is similar especially with regards to the cab but yes the hood looks little bit too high.......

I did also consider using a bit of "modellers licence" as the loco below resembles a BB 63000 produced in HO scale by Roco and Piko. It's a Chemin de Fer Syriens (CFS) Class LDE 650 Bo Bo DE Built by CEM around 1968, photographed in Aleppo.

One could assume it was on loan to C.E.L , arrived in Beirut via the Coastal Line which ran to Homs in Syria and was "marooned" as result of the Civil War.

Other motive power options are Steam but am pretty sure they only ran until around 1974 ......

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The green loco in that photo looks a lot like this...

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/murphy-models-class-121-diesel-oo

Not identical but maybe a starting point?

 

18 minutes ago, Nick_Burman said:

 

The Murphy Models 121 has two issues, one is that it's OO scale and the second that it's one of those locos too expensive and rare to chop up...

 

Cheers NB

The green loco is in fact an EMD G6 seen here in the loco shed at Furn El Chebbak:

"This GM-6 (650hp/600 hp generator input) is a truly tiny loco (31'0" length, 9'8" width, 12'10" height, can be reduced to 11'9"). This type had a single D47 traction motor and three axles. Drive was through a gearbox arrangement again. Only six built, a prototype that spent its entire career as a works shunter at LaGrange, plus four for Lebanon, and one for a gold mine in South Africa, all in 1959-61."  From Borre Ludvigesen Railways of Lebanon Website.

I am not actually aware of any models that are produced in HO scale or even similar so have ignored this loco for my purposes. For motive power, I am sticking with the previously mentioned Polish SP45, the Uerdingen Diesel Rail Cars for passenger service and this Locotracteur Gaston Moyse :

"These diesel shunters appear both at the Mar Mkhael yards and here at Furn el Shebbak. Hughes lists these among the DHP narrow gauge locomotives, but specifies them as 0-4-OD CEL 201 through 203. They were built at the Gaston Moyse works in Paris in 1936. However, Craig Miller indicates that the one in his picture from Mar Mkhael was standard gauge. Here the shunter is on the same rails as a standard gauge commuter car." From Borre Ludvigesen Railways of Lebanon Website.

Both locos together in the 1960s:

18 hours ago, Chen Melling said:

Below is a shot from Jounieh, taken by David Phillips in January 2000

Thanks for posting

Jounieh is an interesting place as it seems to have had a small yard as well as station stop on the Beirut-Tripoli standard gauge line. I also understand that as late as 1984 freight services resumed between Beirut and Jounieh. As a result, there seems to be another rolling stock graveyard there in recent times.....

Here is a photo of the yard in 1969:

This photo below is of Jounieh in 1970 and I am using this as a starting point for painting/weathering rolling stock

Going to "keep it simple stupid" with the flat car and box car.....

Wish me luck......

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Incidentally I've had a load of custom waterslide transfers made for some of my recent projects, and the cost is very reasonable.

I could help with some transfer artwork on these if you need it.

Cheers,

Mol

Thank you..... this is very kind and something I need to look at

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I found this as well, a bit before your period but some of these tank wagons may have survived and it shows some of the lettering quite clearly:

 

 

I have not seen this photo before and its interesting to see the original lettering

I have purchased some "close enough models" from LS Models to help represent these as I had seen them in photos of the rolling stock graveyard at Furn el Chebbak in Beirut:

On 10/01/2024 at 12:44, Mol_PMB said:

For your prototype, I'd imagine that much of the rolling stock should be well weathered and run-down. In that scenario, there is less need for perfection in the livery application. What makes it convincing is much more dependent on the plausibility of the rust patches, the work-staining, load spillage, wear and tear etc. Your work on the buildings, roads etc. on the layout shows that you have a very good eye for this kind of thing already. 

Thank you

On 10/01/2024 at 12:44, Mol_PMB said:

Since there's little prototype information, you have some considerable freedom on the underlying livery and as long as you choose something fairly plain I'm sure that would be plausible and you can make the rolling stock 'your own' with the weathering. 

The prototype freight wagon photos posted earlier on this thread are mostly in white/pale grey colours which would be fairly common in a hot climate in an attempt to keep the cargo cool (in some photos that livery is almost lost under the rust, but some traces are still visible). The logos, numbering and vehicle classifications (where present) seem fairly consistent look broadly in accordance with the published UIC standards. 

I should probably have been more clear: I do have loads of prototype photos but these are like your pics below i.e taken today or in the last few years. What I meant to say is that there a very few photos of the railway during the Civil War 1975 - 1990 (for obvious reasons!) so its a bit more difficult to know what everything looked like for the period I am modelling (1980s).

Most of the records regarding rolling stock were also lost during the war so any purchases of models I have made, have pretty much been my best guess!

I am definitely using the "close enough/good enough" philosophy

On 10/01/2024 at 12:44, Mol_PMB said:

 

A couple more pics I found on Flickr, you may have seen these already:

 

These grey wagons above were used to transport cement which came daily/weekly from Chekka (km 208.5) south of Tripoli from the two cement factories there to Beirut.

These continued to operate from February 1985 until February 16th, 1994, after which the railway bridge at Nahr el-Khelb (km 155) south of Jounieh was dismantled in March 1995 to allow an extension of the coastal motorway.

On 10/01/2024 at 12:44, Mol_PMB said:

   

On 10/01/2024 at 12:44, Mol_PMB said:

Incidentally there are some nice older pics too...

 

 

 

The 2 photos above are of metre gauge rolling stock that ran on a rack line from Beirut to Riyak and then onto Damascus over the mountains. The line was shut down two years into the Civil War.

Both photos I believe are at Beirut's Mar Mikhael station which was the western terminus of the Beirut - Riyaq - Damascus (1.05m) metre line.  The brown coach is obviously a photo from the 2000s but the other is of the station in the late 60s...probably

This photo is of the metre gauge loco emerging from the snow sheds at line at Dahr- el- Baydar. This is the highest point of the metre line around 1500m in altitude and just 38km from Beirut. A rack system was used for around 20km to assist the locos in the climb

On 10/01/2024 at 12:13, doctor quinn said:

On the couplers issue, could you economise by using the Roco close coupler within rakes such as tankers? I wouldn't suggest a bar coupling as I found two vehicles awkward to handle. 
 

Yes, that's another problem I found with NEM couplers with bar couplings, I found them practically impossible to uncouple without help from "the great hand in the sky"

I am not familiar with the Roco close coupler but after a quick google search, I realise they are not too dissimilar from the Fleischmann ones that came as an alternative with a flat car I purchased. The Fleischmann couplers seem so far to:

- uncouple/couple "comparatively gracefully"

- look ok

- do not cause an unsightly massive gap between the wagons

- can be fit easily in the existing NEM coupler box

- can be purchased economically

So we'll see how we get on.....

On 10/01/2024 at 12:13, doctor quinn said:

I don't know if you've looked at any military modellers on YouTube, I found by paining and weathering skills improved when I started looking at what they were doing. 'Panzermeister 36' is very good, with the bonus of doing some trains too.

Thanks for this.

I have subscribed and watched a few videos. He makes everything look fairly straightforward so I think I need to revisit the wagons I have done so far......

On 08/01/2024 at 11:34, stivesnick said:

Excellent stuff - looking forward to seeing more. How is the rolling stock coming on?

 

Thanks for posting a longer distance shot. This is how most people would see an actual layout and it is a good way to understand the overall view.

 

Nick

Ah the Rolling Stock...my "Kryptonite"

The good news is that I have all the rolling stock ready to be painted and weathered. For such a small layout, I only have a roster of 20 or so wagons

I have started on a few wagons but to be honest, I am not as confident with rolling stock models as I am with buildings and scenery.....I showed a few finished wagons to my father and he said they looked "good" (he is after all my dad) but I am not happy with them myself and they need revision.

I have a number of issues currently:

1) Prototype Photos - I do not have many actual prototype photos to use as a guide.....I am really not 100% sure what was used or what the colour schemes were etc ......although, I could use this to my advantage as therefore no one really knows what anything should look like apart from a few key pieces (usually the motive power)

2) Couplings - with the completed wagons I used the "standard" NEM couplings that came with the actual wagons by Piko, Roco etc. After I had painted and weathered a few cars, I realised that the gap between wagons was to say "unsightly".....I am no "rivet counter" but you could drive a bus between the buffers! 

My usual "go to" couplings are Kadee #58s so I thought I would revert to those......but it is actually more complicated to fit these than I thought it would be......ideally, you need to purchase the #58s that fit in the NEM coupling boxes but the price of these is just ridiculous......I think it was £11 for 2 pairs! so I need to investigate other possibilities

3) Painting Skills - As I said above painting skills on rolling stock are somewhat in need of drastic improvement but I intend to leave the layout for a while and concentrate of completing the roster so will post the ups and downs as we go.......I am in a cold sweat about painting motive power but lets get the "easier" models done first!

18 hours ago, Talltim said:

I'm going to be contrary and say that the green line needs to be greener. In all the pictures I have seen of it, it really pops out against the dusty greys and browns of the building/debris

Thanks for the feedback.......I haven't finished "The Green Line" just yet but agree it needs some more "volume"