MANTY1

I mentioned some time back that my 28xx was in need of some weathering, a process that for me has so far been limited to bits of dry-brushing and flat varnishing. The weird Hornby green, like a cross between sage leaves and pea soup, was crying out for treatment, so - heart in mouth - I finally plucked up the courage to point the airbrush at it.

 

So here's a rather dirty 2819, heading towards South Wales with coal empties.

 

 

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I didn't mean to make it quite this dirty at first, but firstly I was a bit heavy-handed with the airbrush (still learning re the balance between air pressure and paint flow), and secondly I knocked the damn thing over before it was dry, which meant either stripping back to square 1 or wafting over a few more coats to hide the scars! Being impatient I opted for the latter.

 

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A few more to follow.

 

John C.

I think that looks really good  John. Especially for a first weathering attempt.

Have just bought an old Hormby one (early BR emblem in Black) with a ringfield motor in the tender and I shall be weathering that one too.

Hope it looks similar to yours.

Here are 3 overhead shots, which shows the trackplan better.

At this point I really must add that without the internet and the help I have received from this and other forums we would not be where we are.

It really is refreshing that like minded modellers happily give advice and post pictures so we can all learn from it and get better ideas.

Happy Modelling.

Here are a few more photo's of the current situation.

Almost finished apart from the coal area and a few bits and pieces.

Must say I do like the Metcalfe small signal box, a really nice kit to build and fits in the restricted space a treat.

Well its almost finished now, need to decide what to do near the bridge/coalyard to finish off. Need to make it some sort of entrance but not sure what. Whilst some other areas need a little work, also some edges need rectifying. (Funny how a photo shows it up)
Decided to have a little play with some box vans and added some chalk markings which I got from RailTec Transfers after reading an article in Model Rail. Give the wagons a different look. Settled them down using MicroSol which worked fine and then a touch of acrylic varnish when dried.
Here are a few photo's taken with my phone.
Soon it can go back where it belongs on the windowsill (in my study). Then maybe I can think about my next project, have a space 12' x 20" with a possible side piece one end for a fiddleyard.
BR 50's/60's - decisions decisions.
Once we are all finished will share some photo's of the whole thing (all 5' of it)
Been great fun.

All OK now thanks to Tim @ Sat Model Rail Battlesbridge, who sorted it on his programming track a couple of weeks ago.

Easier than me making a fist of it !!!!

There are lots of references to the mainline axle issues.   Bachmann completely redesigned the chassis to improve matters, using square axle ends, but the Bachmann wheels have larger axle journals and are not direct replacements, In fact I don't think the Bachmann wheels can be used in the Mainline chassis without a milling machine.  The Mainline motor is not great.  

 

30 years ago we "Solved" the issueof wheels slipping by taking the motor out and putting a Hornby Tender drive tender from a 4-4-0 County, 28XX or Saint behind it.  We had to fabricate a draw bar, arrange a wire from one side of the split chassis to the Tender drive  but basically they, a Manor and two 43XX  worked OK for the best part of 30 years until I got fed up with the tender drive  traction tyres making the track dirty and banished them to the display cabinet.

 

The Bachmann chassis is a better bit of kit but not wonderful, the axles don't slip but wheels fall off, my son bought the Cambrian Coast Express Set and the Manor shed a wheel after 30 minutes running and the 43XX are loose as well.

 

 I suspect the stub axles don't make proper contact with the chassis which causes arcing which heats the wheel and axle, softening the axle.  This is exacerbated by using the wrong oil. Peco electrolube or any conductive oil should be used.

 

If you want to give the 43XX a try, Peters spares may well have replacement axles, Make absolutely sure you have the "Quartering" right first time as once the wheels have been twisted on the axles they will continually slip,  What I did with my Mainline 03 shunter was to fit pickups between the chassis halves and the backs of the driving wheels, Its still going strong after 25 years or so since I bought the chassis for a couple of quid to replace a burned out Bachmann chassis.

Thanks David,

Will probably give the Peters Spares a try just to see if I can do it.

If it fails no harm done as she is an old loco that has been in a box for years.

Regards

Appreciate the comments, but we seem to have got away from my initial request, which is "has anyone fitted the PS29 axle kit and what issues did you have".

Think the best thing is, I order one set and give it a go.

If it fails, well at least I tried.

Has anyone used the parts from Peters Spares (PS29)

Thought I would give it a go just to see if I can make them work.

What issues did you have ?

The Peters Spares axles should restore the locos to as new condition, but you must get the quartering right and get it right first time, twisting a wheel on an axle will inevitably loosen it and accelerate the deterioration.

 

The reason for wheel loosening appears to be the wheels don't make good contact with the chassis due to gunge and oil on the stub axle journal and this sets up arcing which heats the wheel and softens the axle. Adding pickups from the chassis half sides to the wheel backs reduces the arcing considerably, even one per side lets the coupling rods act as a current path and helps reduce the heating.  Conductive oil is a must.for these chassis.

 If you have 2ft radius Peco points and 2ft min radius fitting washers to reduce side play on the driving wheels gives the pick ups an easier time.  Weighting the locos is probably a bad idea for the point of view of axle life.

 

The Bachmann wheels have square peg axles and different stub axle sizes as I found when trying to fit Bachmann wheels to a Mainline GW 57XX

 

Twenty odd years ago I  added pickups from the chassis to the wheel backs on a Mainline 03  0-6-0 D loco chassis.   It was retired in favour of a Bachmann for 12 months or so and returned temporarily when the Bachmann motor burned out and the Mainline chassis is still going.   

 

My son bought "New" Bachmann Mogul and |Manor locos last year. The Mogul did 30 minutes running in before a wheel fell off twisting the coupling and connecting rod and damaging the cylinder so the option of a Bachmann  Chass is not a complete cure.

 

Thirty years ago my father in law took the motors out of Mainline Moguls and a Manor and pushed them with Hornby County 4-4-0 powered tenders.   One had Romford wheels fitted. They still run but we have since banned traction tyres so they are in the display cabinet. 

 

Around the same time I fitted Triang Hall/ B12 chassis to Mainline Manor and 43XX chassis, Both have Romford wheels and loads of lead and are still in regular service, being 2 coaches better up a 1 in 30 than the Bachmann standard chassis locos.

Thanks for the reply David.

Think it might be worth a try, nothing ventured !!!

If it doesn't work can always stand in the dead road.

Regards

Good Afternoon

Have moved this enquiry from original posting as I believe it might have been in the wrong place

I have Mainline Manor & Mogul loco's that I would like to sort out  but they appear to have the dreaded axle problem.

I see Peters Spares sell the pins and gears PS29

Has anyone on here carried out this repair and what are the complications. Quartering etc.

I have taken the Mogul apart and can see what I need to do (they both have the round pin axles) but would like some advice if possible please.

Is their an article I am missing somewhere ?.

Many Thanks

Hi Manty1, I don't have any knowledge of the two models you are dealing with and I hope you don't mind and I'm  trying to be helpful (not smart Alec clever), but might I suggest you consider changing the title of your topic to something more specific than 'Help and Advice Please'. It might also serve you better to have the topic under a different forum heading from 'Motors and Drive systems' , perhaps Modelling Hints and Tips would be  more relevant.

 

A title such as 'Mainline Manor/ Mogul axle problems - Help and Advice sought' will attract the attention of those on the forum who have the experience to answer your query.

 

Good luck with the repairs and I hope someone will be able to help you before long.

 

Regards,

 

               John

 

Edit to add suggestion re Topic Forum heading.

Thank you John appreciate your advice.

I was wondering if I had asked the question the right way.

Will change it

Many Thanks.

Good Afternoon

I have a Mainline Manor & Mogul loco's that I would like to sort out  but they appear to have the dreaded axle problem.

I see Peters Spares sell the pins and gears PS29

Has anyone on here carried out this repair and what are the complications. Quartering etc.

I have taken the Mogul apart and can see what I need to do (they both have the round pin axles) but would like some advice if possible please.

Is their an article I am missing somewhere ?.

Many Thanks

It is the plug which is directly under the cab.

It has the decoder correctly fitted where the centre weight normally resides, with the wires along the side of the motor in their guide.

 

If you require more weight after the fitting of the decoder, some lead alongside the decoder will restore the status quo. I have done that on my "Hall"

 

Keith

Hi Keith

She has the decoder already in place exactly as you mentioned.

There is a weight in the body shaped to the boiler so hopefully that is sufficient, if not then a bit of Liquid Gravity should help, will see how we get on before adding anything extra.

Kind Regards

To be more precise-

 

If it's an even number, add 1. If it's an odd number, subtract 1

Thanks smokebox. Will definitely have a look at doing that over the weekend

Appreciate the help.

Now she has been running on my loco tester track bed she is getting smoother and runs very slowly.

Bit of light - medium weathering at some time

Well its been a while since I last posted about this diorama

Progress has been slow  but we have made some progress. As you can see the left end is nearly there, just needs a bit more dirtying up and finishing off with a small amount of clutter.

Pleased with the coal stage and water pump area. Chap with the shovel is by ModelU.

Used Javis scenics timber wall along the front, took a long while to come up with them but once I had tried a couple we (the boss and I) decided to go for it.

Widened the base slightly so had to add a bit extra to the bridge, seems to have come out OK.

Still got to decide how to finish that end.

Metcalfe's little signalbox has gone in well and was a lovely kit to build.

So here are a few photo's for you to see.

Reckon I'm still going to have to put a fiddleyard on the right, just a cassette style one, so I could run trains off the board, when she's not on the windowsill.

Hope you like the update.

Is that a decoder or a blanking plug?

Hi Coachmann

Its definitely a decoder, all is working now.

One of those good days when you get more than you expected.

Just need to play with CV29 to get the direction the right way round. Not today though.

"Swapped wires" Which ones? Swapping the motor wires will change direction, swapping the track wont.

 

There is also a setting to reverse operation in CV29, you will need to change the first bit.

Does you handset allow you to read CVs or change direction as part of it's programming?

 

Keith

Will need to check that Keith, No rush as am running her in a bit at present. Light oiling etc.

Must say I am well pleased with her, wasn't expecting her to be already DCC'd so a pleasant result.

Thanks for your help.

Thanks smokebox, will have to look at the Prodigy Express Manual and see how to reset her.

Fingers Crossed

Thanks Barry. Hopefully all well just need to work out the reset procedure.

Success - reprogrammed chassis, took me a while to work it out and realised had the wires in the controller still set on Main Track, swapped to Prog Track reset to 12 loco moved a bit. Then swapped wires back yo Main  (must do a separate connection "lol) and she works on DCC.

Only issue now is the when in forward she goes in reverse and vice-versa.

Swapped wires - no difference  any ideas - bet its "simples"

1. Some will say capacitors should always be removed, some say only if you find running problems. I've only removed capacitors from a few of my locos.

 

2. Yes, unless dc running has been disabled in CV29 or the decoder doesn't support dc running, there are very few of those.

 

3. Extremely unlikely for the capacitors to have caused damage. The chokes (inductors) can usually be left in place but if you do remove them, you must fit wire links instead.

 

What address have you been trying? Have you tried a decoder reset? Usually writing 8 to CV 8 will reset decoders but some have different reset numbers.

Thanks smokebox, will have to look at the Prodigy Express Manual and see how to reset her.

Fingers Crossed

If it runs on DC, then I'd say it's unlikely that there's anything wrong with the decoder. Most likely, it's just set to an address that isn't obvious, so as smokebox says, you'll probably have to do a reset unless you can read back the current address.

 

For what it's worth I have one of these and I didn't remove the capacitors.

Thanks Barry. Hopefully all well just need to work out the reset procedure.

Good Afternoon

Have just purchased from EBay a Hall Class Saint Edmund Hall 5960

Bachmann Catalogue No:- 32-002

It said in the descriptin it is DCC ready (on the Box as well)

Assumed no decoder was fitted (not expected) and tested her on my testbed with DC.

Ran well although needs a bit of runnin g in.

Imagine my surprise when I took out the chassis from the body to find that a decoder has been installed.

On checking "Buffers" how to fit a decoder - instructions it seems all is in place, but cannot get her to work on DCC ??

They do say remove all capacitors and chokes from the back of the motor and provide jumper wires in their place? They are still connected.

My questions are :-

1. Do I need to remove the capacitors

2. Should it be running on DC with a decoder fitted.

3. Could the decoder have been blown as the capacitors are still in place when it was fitted ??

I am "technology challenged" at times (must be my age!!!) so would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Well thats was a good plan, but another issue has arisen !!!!

Just tried her on my windowsill diorama and she wont run through the Code 75 points, so looks like its no go unless I change the chassis and wheels.

Not sure I'm up to achieving that

Will have to think about it.

Shame, but all its cost me is a decoder and I can use that elsewhere.

If it's one of the early Airfix large prairies, the chassis were poor performers, I'd be tempted to replace with a Comet/Wizard version. 

Nice idea but not sure I want to go down that road at present

Thanks for the idea anyway.

The silly thing is it's intermittent. Sometimes it runs absolutely fine in both directions, next time just stops and restarts.

Agree its probably poor connection somewhere.

 Always a good start that the model ran well on DC.

 

Having fitted a decoder, this tendency to cut out and sometimes failure to move at all, often with directional variability is usually track power failing to reach the decoder. (There are other possibiities, but let's go for the most likely first.)

 

DC is tolerant of power loss, the motor coasts, current supply resumes, the operator probably doesn't notice. The difference with DCC is that the decoder cuts out the moment track power is lost. Usually this  power loss is because the pick up wipers are not bearing on the wheelbacks at all times. A little patient adjustment, and then testing that pick up is maintained by use of flying leads, testing all combinations such that any one wheel one side, with any one wheel the other side, and the motor always runs, and the problem should be solved.

 

If not, come back for more.

Will have a double check on the pickups - Thanks

Hi

After watching an excellent little video on You Tube by Peter George  - Platform 1 MRC I decided to have a go at DCC'ing one I had in a box.

On DC she ran well for an old model so went for it.

Fitted a Gaugemaster Omni decoder and surprise surprise it worked (not bad for me)

Only issue I have is that when running on my short test bed she stops for 1-2 secs then starts up again.

Sometimes doesn't do it at all. Appears to be better in reverse.

Have given her a good clean and their doesn't appear to be any binding of the rods etc.

The track is also clean.

I did take a video on my phone but am having trouble saving it too my PC, but I think you get what I'm trying to say about the loco running.

Cure this and it will be a lovely little model.

Hope you can help.

This is a still of the loco

Hi

After watching an excellent little video on You Tube by Peter George  - Platform 1 MRC I decided to have a go at DCC'ing one I had in a box.

On DC she ran well for an old model so went for it.

Fitted a Gaugemaster Omni decoder and surprise surprise it worked (not bad for me)

Only issue I have is that when running on my short test bed she stops for 1-2 secs then starts up again.

Sometimes doesn't do it at all. Appears to be better in reverse.

Have given her a good clean and their doesn't appear to be any binding of the rods etc.

The track is also clean.

I did take a video on my phone but am having trouble saving it too my PC, but I think you get what I'm trying to say about the loco running.

Cure this and it will be a lovely little model.

Hope you can help.