mikemeg

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D' Ok, so at least a couple of folk would like a little more info on this conversion, so here goes! Firstly, a very short history lesson. The LNER introduced the long wheelbase 20 ton brake van in 1929, to be used at the tail end of fitted freights in order to provide a smoother ride. An initial 20 were built which were based at locations where long distance fitted freights emanated from - Kings Cross, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Marylebone, York, Glasgow, etc. These initial examples had steel sheet end platforms and unglazed doors, though the ends of the cabin were glazed. This was the basic format for a number of years. Due to a shortage of iron and steel, during World War II, examples built during this period had end platforms which were raised to accommodate concrete as ballast. This modification stayed in place after the war and as part of the British Railways standard design. These later LNER built vans also had the end doors glazed as well as the cabin ends. A small angle iron truss on the underside of the solebar was also added. So to the Dapol kit. This represents the British Railways standard 20 ton brake van, based on the LNER design but with modifications. Also, much of the detail on this kit is moulded on i.e. handrails, lamp irons, etc. So the first task is to remove all of the moulded detail - I sand it off with very fine emery paper. Once removed, then the planking lines can be replaced, by scoring with a compass point, where this moulded detail has been removed. I also drill new 0.3 mm holes to accept new handrails at this time. The solebars, which are plastic mouldings, I also modify by thinning the webs down and by 'excavating; some of the channel with a needle file. Then a .010" plasticard strip is glued into the solebar, which has the rivet detail, works plate and the body support brackets - see the photo below. If one of the earlier brake vans, with steel end platforms, is being modelled then the ends of the floor on the kit must be removed and replaced with plasticard (.015") before assembly as in the photo below. Once all of this removal and reshaping has been done, then the body and the solebars can be assembled. I also add the wheel bearings (pinpoint) wheels brake hangars and shoes at this point. Buffers can also be added - I use ABS white metal LNER long fitted freight buffers - at this point. So the photo below shows the results of these processes. To be continued. Cheers Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D' Here's another rebuild which was posted on a previous incarnation of RMWeb. Before I embarked on the loco scratch and kit building 'fest', I spent quite a while building wagon kits, mostly the Ian Kirk kits. In the course of doing this and because many of the kits were LNER wagons, I obviously needed to build at least one of the very distinctive LNER 20 ton brake vans. However, there was no kit available to build one of these; the nearest thing, available, was the Dapol kit for the British Railways standard 20 ton brake van, which design was based on the LNER version. So, armed with Peter Tatlow's excellent book on LNER wagons, within which were detailed drawings of the LNER 20 ton Brake Van, I acquired a number of the Dapol kits, intent on re-working them to represent their LNER forebears. Anyway, the result of these efforts is shown below and is my attempt at representing the very distinctive LNER 20 ton Brake Van. If anyone is interested then I will describe the various modifications and additions made to these kits to produce this model. And yet another of those clear blue, cloud free days at Hessle Haven! Cheers Mike

LNER J25 Next up for painting is this one. This was the test build for the North Eastern Kits LNER J25 and will be yet another model of a Hull Dairycoates loco, as it was in mid 1950. Might just do this one as it was on the day after it returned to Hull from a general overhaul and repaint at Darlington Works. Cheers Mike

Thanks Richard I'm sure that it hasn't escaped your notice that this loco, shown above, is not a tank loco; it's a tender loco. So though my tank engine 'habit' is by no means cured, it is now tempered, as I start on the final painting of quite a few more tender locos. Very best regards Mike

LNER J39/2 The last of the loco fleet to undergo repairs is now done and photographed being tested on the layout. This was described on the previous RMWeb incarnation and is a heavily modified and rebuilt Bachmann model. The body was significantly reworked with new handrails, glazing, etc. and the chassis is a modified Comet chassis kit assembled to P4 gauge and incorporating full, though none working, inside motion. So more than ten years after this was done, it is now restored to its 'proper' condition. Needless to say, 64914 was a Hull loco in 1950; part of Dairycoates J39 allocation. Since this was done, I've accumulated two more Bachmann J39 bodies (50p each!) so, one day not too far off, I'll do two more J39's; one with the 3500 gallon tender (J39/1) and one with an ex NER tender (J39/3). Another of those clear, blue sunlit days of summer on the layout; totally unrealistic at the moment, one might say!! Cheers Mike

LNER T1's So, before I return the second T1 to the 'airtight box' a last photo to check the chimney likenesses. Looks ok! Originally destined to be 69914 of Hull Dairycoates, this will now become 69920, also of Hull Dairycoates. This shed had five of this class in mid 1950, probably all used for shunting Hull New Inward Yard, which was a hump yard as opposed to the other yards which were flat. Cheers Mike

Hi Dave, Like you I too have a fondness for shunters, of all sizes. My models are almost entirely of locomotives based in Hull around 1950. At that time, the four loco sheds in Hull could, collectively, muster around forty 0-6-0 tank shunters of classes J71, J72, J73 and J77. Then there were some twenty 0-6-2 tanks of classes N8 and N10 and five T1 4-8-0 tanks. Add to that the various Paciific tanks of classes A5, A6, A7 and A8, along with C12's, G5's and then the little 'Y' classes. Then, of course, there were the various tender classes - B1, C7, D20, D49, J25, J39, K3, O1 and O4, WD, etc and there was a bewildering array of loco types based in the town. Ex GN, GC, GE, Midland, LNWR, L&Y and LMS locos also worked into Hull on both passenger and freight turns. On Summer Saturdays and Sundays, the excursions to Bridlington or Scarborough could bring ex Great Central locos as well as Midland and LMS classes. I never saw those early British Railways days but it must have been 'one hell of a place' for loco spotters. Regards Mike

Absolutely agree with the comments on the quality of the instructions in 52F kits; they are outstanding. My concern with the chassis of the T1 kit, as supplied, was simply that I had used High Level hornguides and axleboxes almost exclusively on my models and the continuous springy beams, fitted inside the mainframes and above the axleboxes would then obviate the need for the 8BA screwheads showing on the outside of the mainframes to provide the pivots for the two sets of compensating beams. So while the T1 body was 'out for photographing' I did take the opportunity to :- a) Just slightly reprofile the chimney. b) Replace the buffers with LNER group standard ones. Now this will have to wait for its chassis!! Cheers Mike

Hi Dave, The first T1 started life as a Little Engines white metal kit. As I worked through the evaluation and checking of this kit, I discarded more and more of it so that, ultimately, the body was scratch built, using plasticard, and using some of the castings from the original kit - smokebox door, chimney, dome, tank breathers, etc. The chassis was almost entirely scratch built including the connecting and coupling rods. Only the crossheads and slide bar assembly and the brake shoes and hangars from the kit were used. In truth, I was never satisfied with the brake assembly on this model and did update this assembly when I did the second build. This model weighs in at 15 ounces and is powered by a Mashima 1630 with a flywheel and a 40 : 1 gearbox. Now I would fit an 80 :1 or even a 120 : 1 gearbox as these things ran very, very slowly when hump shunting. On a test track this loco did pull over seventy wagons with ease, until a three link coupling, in the middle of the train, broke. As the wagons were borrowed from various sources, for this test, the owner of the bulk of the wagons - including the one which suffered a coupling failure - wasn't mightily impressed with my T1. I used exactly the same approach on a Little Engines A6 kit, finishing up scratch building the body in plasticard using only the castings from the kit. The chassis on this is one of Arthur's North Eastern Kits etched chassis for his A6 kit. I did the test builds for this A6 kit and then built two more, so I now have four A6's. There only ever were ten of them so I now have 40% of the class. A photo of the original A6 scratch build is posted below. This loco is fifteen years old and still going strong. I entitled this photo - Broodily Massive - for that's what these things were. They were big, often noisy and smelly, frequently dirty and unkempt but they were lovely things. For me, tank locos didn't get much better than the A6's!! The second T1 build is a 52F kit, though I haven't built the chassis as supplied. When I bought this kit, I also bought an additional set of chassis etches which I then used to update the scratch built model. Later this year, once I have finished and commissioned the various 4-6-0's which I've built, then I will turn my attention to building the chassis for the second T1, using the supplied etches as the basis of a 'hybrid scratch build' where the chassis is assembled in a completely different way from its designed method and to P4 gauge. Hope this helps but if you have any more queries, just ask and I'll do my best to answer them. Cheers Mike

LNER T1's Every now and again I have a repair campaign when any damage to any of the working models is repaired/replaced. The T1 69915 which is now twenty years old, was in need of new front guard irons, footplate steps and a top smokebox lamp iron, so those are in the process of being done. Also, looking inside my airtight box, I came across this build which I did a few years ago and which I didn't pursue because I was never happy with the design of the chassis. After re-evaluating the chassis etches, I think I can build it in a completely different way, using the etches as supplied but significantly modifying them by using wider mainframe spacers - those supplied are to fit 'OO' gauge - and by substituting high level hornguides and axleboxes and continuous springy beams, rather than two sets of compensating beams with top hat bearings, as supplied. Also, looking at the two photos, the chimney on the second build, which is the one supplied with the kit, is just not quite right and will be changed or at least reprofiled. Once a number of other models are painted and commissioned, then I will build the chassis for the second T1 which will become 69914, based at Hull Dairycoates in mid 1950. So to Richard (30368) who suggested that I had an ex-NER tank engine 'habit', seems I've not yet broken the habit and am condemned to and must continue to 'suffer'. Cheers Mike

Thanks John, I actually read the withdrawal dates on one of the Bachmann Internet entries for the J72 and the dates did seem a bit 'compressed' with a stated withdrawal date of late 1961. 1963 or early 1964 as a date for the photo makes much more sense, given the state of the paintwork. Regards Mike

Chas and Richard (30368), Only two J72's were painted in the full NER lined green livery, both done in 1960. 68723 was the station pilot at Newcastle; 68736 station pilot at York. 68736 went to Newcastle in 1961 and both 68723 and 68736 were withdrawn later in 1961. So the photo could be one of the Newcastle sheds (the V1/V3's in the background would support that) then it is after 68736's transfer; or if the photo is the scrap line at Darlington (and the V1's were withdrawn from 1960 - 1962 so that's also supported) then the photo is either late 1961 or early 1962 as neither loco seems to have spent any significant time in store and this preceded the intervention of the preservation movement. Regards Mike

A Brace of J77's Perhaps on the same day as the J72's above, or maybe another clear blue, sunny day, a pair of J77's wander along the up slow. Cheers Mike

I do have photos of almost half of the class but here's a last one showing one of the earlier built J72's carrying the full lined green NER livery, albeit in BR days and looking decidedly faded. Cheers Mike

John, I have added three photos to the above posting, showing the main variants. Regards Mike

Hi John, Without seeing a photo of the mainline model, it is impossible to identify which batch(es) the model covers. The NER Class E1 (later LNER J72) were built as follows :- 1898 - 99 20 locos all with the shorter bunker. These became 68670 - 68689 1914 20 locos all with the longer bunker. These became 68690 - 68709 1920 10 " " These became 68710 - 68719 1922 25 " " These became 68720 - 68744 1925 10 " " These became 68745 - 68754 1949 - 51 28 " " These were 69001 - 69028 As far as I know, the only visible difference between the 1914 to 1925 batches and those built by BR were the sanding arrangements. The earlier batches had rear sandboxes inside the cab; the last batch (BR) had externally mounted rear sandboxes which were clearly visible under the rear of the running plate. I believe the actuating mechanism for the front sandboxes (part of the front splasher) was also slightly different. Some of the earlier locos may have lost their 'trumpet' safety valve cover but all of the last batch were built with and retained that cover. Some locos were vacuum fitted and these did include earlier built examples. These locos were employed on station pilot duties and under BR, some were painted in full NER lined Saxony Green livery. Reference to Yeadon would verify if this is the complete list of changes. The fifty three year span between the first and the last build is probably the longest of any loco class. I have attached three photos :- 68670 which was the first NER Class E1 / LNER J72 to be built, with the shorter bunker. 68747 which was one of the 1925 LNER batch with the longer bunker (5 and 3/4"longer). 69010 which was one of the BR batch. Cheers Mike

J72's 'A Plenty' Here is another of those 'composed' photos. Richard (30368) did remark that I have an ex NER tank loco habit which, of course, I do. Anyway here are three of the four J72's on the railway; two Bachmann conversions with High Level Models Chassis and one of North Eastern Kits models of the longer bunker version. A fourth J72 is awaiting painting, representing one of the first twenty built with the original shorter bunker. As the models are all set in mid-1950, then both 69003 and 69010 would have been almost new as they were built by BR in 1949 - 1950. Most of my photos, taken on the railway, are taken on 'gloriously blue sunny days' only because the background 'sky sheets' are that blue of a summer sky and the lighting is a 'daylight lamp'. But why not portray and remember them on a gloriously blue, sunlit summer's day? Cheers Mike

My last memories of the loco spotting days were of Hull Dairycoates 7 Section in 1965, near the coaling plant and where those locos destined for Drapers scrapyard were temporarily stored. By then steam was in full retreat, almost everywhere. For those of us who saw this demise, then the only lasting legacy of this age would probably be the National Railway Museum collection, then being assembled. Here we would be able to see and appreciate a few carefully chosen examples standing pristine but lifeless in a scrupulously clean environment. Few if any of us could ever have imagined that the preservation movement would spring up all over the country and that hundreds of locomotives would survive to live and work once more. Carefully restored, lovingly cherished and appreciated by whole generations who never saw or experienced the steam railway. Even less could we imagine that new locos would be built to illustrate some of those classes which were completely withdrawn or which were integral to the evolution of the steam locomotive. This thread and Rob's 'Photos of East Yorkshire's Railways' thread provide a fantastic insight into not only the steam railway but also the history of the diesel railway, which apart from the change in motive power, was often little changed in its environment and operating characteristics from earlier days. So many thanks for a wonderful thread. Regards Mike

Nick, I also have a collection of J21 prototype pictures (about fifteen in all) covering their NER, LNER and BR days. What period are you modelling and I will try and post one or two appropriate photos. Some of these locos were superheated, some not. Also some were vacuum fitted, some were not, throughout their lives. This was a very long lived class so there were lots of variations as they went through their lives. The appropriate Yeadon's Register is the 'bible' on this class (and every other LNER class) but I do have the 'Last Day of the LNER' which lists every extant LNER locomotive and its shed allocation as at December 31st, 1947 and The Ian Alan Combined Volume for mid 1950, which lists every BR locomotive and its shed allocation at August 1950. Cheers Mike

In an earlier post, I posted a couple of photographs of 45562 Alberta (really Galatea?) on the Scarborough Spa Express on August 13th, 2020. Quite a surprise as this loco had been withdrawn and scrapped during the late 1960's. This train would often turn out some quite unusual locomotives, none more so than this one taken almost a year after the Jubilee. So, on August 5th, 2021, the Scarborough Spa Express was headed up by a Merchant Navy - 35018 - again absolutely immaculate. I guess for those of us who saw the end of steam, in the early and mid 1960's, the rebuilt Merchant Navy's along with the Coronation's, the Peppercorn A1's and the Britannia's, probably represented the absolute zenith of express passenger locomotive development in this country. So to see one, once again, was just a joy. Cheers Mike

Hi Nick, I do still have all of the photos from the J25 build (and all of the other test builds) so here goes. I often take these shots to check on straightness, curve and fit of the cab roof, etc; in this case the footplate and the cab roof profile. Even though the prototypes were often slightly 'out of true' - see the running plate on photograph 4 of the J21, below - especially in their later years, somehow any lack of straightness doesn't always (ever?) look convincing on the models. I built the cab interior as a complete sub-assembly and then just 'pushed' the whole thing into the cab. Far easier than trying to build it into the fully assembled cab. Hope these help. Regards Mike

The First Green Locomotive Following on from the posting of the 'First Steam Shed Sunday' but actually on the same day, a Sunday in early October of 1958, after we had left Dairycoates shed and were on our way home, the gates of the level crossing on Hessle Road, in Hull, closed. We hauled our bikes up the steps of the footbridge which adjoined the crossing to watch whatever had caused the gates to close. Down the incline from 'tin pan alley' the nickname of the main line girder bridge which passed Dairycoates shed, came a passenger train hauled by a lined green locomotive. As it approached the footbridge, we could see the number 45562 and then see that it carried a nameplate 'Alberta'. So this was the first of many encounters with Leeds Holbeck (55A) Jubilees; this one bringing in a Liverpool to Hull Sunday train. Later 45562 became one of the last Jubilees to remain in service but succumbed to the cutters torch in the late 1960's. So imagine my amazement when, on August 13th, 2020, going to Scarborough Station to photograph the Scarborough Spa Express, I saw a pristine, gleaming 45562 'Alberta'. Of course, this was one of the preserved Jubilees (Galatea?), temporarily carrying the number and name 45562 'Alberta' but what a coincidence. When we originally saw these locos, they were almost always filthy and increasingly looking very down at heel. This one looked as if it had come ex-works that same day, so immaculately was it turned out. The loco left Scarborough at its appointed 5.00pm and took out fourteen BR Mk 1 and Mk 2 coaches unaided, and without a vestige of a slip. A lady, standing next to me overlooking the station platform, who I had never seen before, turned and simply said 'Oh that is just beautiful'. And so it was!! The first two photos are of 45562 in Scarborough. The last photo shows the view from that Hessle Road footbridge, this as an unnamed Patriot - 45517 - approaches the level crossing on a football supporters special. I don't have a date for this photo but probably late 1950's; the tender totem is the later BR one but the coaches appear to be ex-LMS. Cheers Mike

Hessle Haven In reply to the previous question, I am still working on it. I have to confess that I did stop work on the layout when I began doing test builds of etched locomotive kits around 2015 but the layout is still the 'test bed' for the locos and I still photograph them on it. The third section, which is by far the most complex part of the model, and is the section shown in some of my earlier photos of the 'real thing' in an earlier post - Reflections on the thread - is now work in progress but with twelve turnouts, two diamond crossings and a single slip - not to mention a row of railway cottages, another bridge, a gas works and a small shipyard and the muddy water of the haven itself - it is still 'some way off completion'. While the majority of the layout is based on actual track plans of Hessle Haven, I am going to have to add a motive power depot to house the forty (and growing) locos so far built or converted. Dairycoates is out of the question so, ideally, I need an ex North Eastern straight shed to model though Selby's square 'roundhouses' are tempting. So thanks for the question and, though this is not a model making thread, here's a couple of photos of a few of the tank locos on the railway, one of the models on test and, of course, that bridge. As it is a model of a part of the railway of East Yorkshire perhaps I'll get away with this on Rob's thread!! Regards Mike

Signals over the years Looking through the myriad photographs on this thread, as well as the ever changing nature of the motive power and rolling stock, there were aspects of the railway scene, in East Yorkshire, which changed much more slowly and which were 'constants' for very much longer. Nowhere was this truer than with the great signal gantries and bridges, made for the North Eastern Railway by McKenzie and Holland of Worcester. Those delicate lattice structures supporting the North Eastern's penchant for signalling every conceivable movement, made these structures an integral part of the railway scene for the best part of a century. For essentially functional pieces of equipment, these structures were incredibly elegant things and did much to enhance the 'look' of the railway. Almost the last of these great structures, which became iconic, was the Falsgrave signal bridge, which, in modified form now stands at one end of Grosmont Station on the NYMR. Some years ago, I began to scratch build models of some of these incredible structures but where to find drawings. The answer to this was nowhere! Oh there were diagrams, outlines on track plans, etc. but nowhere could I find 4mm scale drawings. So I produced some, in fact quite a few. Using photographs and armed with certain key dimensions and using a 'home made' piece of 3D analytic software I was able to get pretty close (within 1/2 of one percent) of the key dimensions. So a few photographs of some of the drawings thus produced (and their prototypes), which are all hand drawn, and one of the resulting models. They are Falsgrave, Barlby West and Hull West Parade. The model is, of course, a signal bridge which stood at Hessle Haven, though I have also modelled some of the Scarborough installations. Cheers Mike

The photo of the Class 20 above. Amazing to realise that the locomotive was then probably fifty five years old. The footbridge, which is a North Eastern Railway cast example, is at least one hundred years old and the station roof, under which the train is passing, is probably more than one hundred and fifty years old. Our railway heritage illustrated in one photograph. Cheers Mike