Signalist

Quite a lot of Eastenders references went in to our Walford inspired layout for the Great Model Railway Challenge. Thread here:-

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/138423-walford-towers/#comment-3332091

Walford East station, Albert Square, well known  businesses under tha arches, the Queen Vic pub with animated customer being ejected, bus crashing in to the market, dirty den's body floating in the canal while Rowley the dog looks on, the caff and minimart, Doctor Leg's surgery and a completely to scale 'Walford Towers' tower block and lots more.

The research was hard enough - but getting hold of an undergound train in the timescale was real hell. I think that the team did well to capture the spirit.

p.s. the tower block appears in 'Auf Weidersehn Pet' and 'A Clockwork Orange' too, perhaps an idea for another day...

On 30/04/2022 at 12:05, WIMorrison said:

I can’t see why the Z21 has a fault when it only affects your system...

 

...As I said earlier, the Z21 doesn’t reset anything on my layout when it is switched on - it does absolutely nothing, until you tell it to do something.

The Z21 is sending a reset packet, you will probably notice that if you turn your Z21 off with trains running, when you turn it back on again the trains will stop because they respond to the reset packet.

It is quite a small issue, but if the Z21 sends a reset packet it should also reset its internal state to match. There are a lot of decoders that ignore the reset packet, and if you have some of these you will not see the effect.

The Signalist SC1 decoder allows you to set a default state so you know what state your signals will be when your system is reset. A simple power down will not reset the signals - they will come back on in the state they were left in so that a simple glitch will not upset anything.

The SC1 should be available from CR Signals, and will drive common positive and common negative, or a mixture.

It appears that when the Z21 is powered on it is sending a decoder reset packet (hard reset in NMRA speak) and the decoder is responding to this and resetting to a known value as the NMRA spec requires when a decoder recieves this packet. Other command stations notably Lenz do this as well.

The issue here is that while the Z21 sends the reset packet to reset the decoders, it does not reset its own internal state to match. I don't unfortunately have a Z21 here to see how it displays signal states on the command station.

The simple workaround is to disconnect the track feed to the layout with a switch before power on and reconnect it after the command station has sent its reset packet, that way the decoder will retain its previous state when it was powered off and not be reset.

Hi OliverSR

You are correct in that you will need to replace the grain of wheat bulbs with LEDs. You should have little trouble finding some that fit. Get true green LEDs for the green as they are a better colour than the ordinary green ones supplied in many signals.

You will not need any resistors. The SC1 controls the LED current, you program individual CV values to adjust the brightness of each LED.

There is more than one site hosted on the same place, and I think there must be some interaction that has replaced the static homepage (index.html) with something dynamic.

I don't have access to the hosting so the stock levels have not been updated for years.

15 hours ago, PupCam said:

Do you have a working link to a page/website with all the necessary info.   

 

My Googling only leads me to the defunct page   http://dccdiy.org.uk/  which is a bit of a tease!

 

Although his forum still seems to work ....

 

https://diydecoder.proboards.com/

 

Thanks

Sorry, I had not realised that the site had stopped working, I will get on to the webmaster and see what has gone wrong.

The forum is hosted seperately.

Glad that you are finding the resource useful.

My layouts are exhibition only, I would not really be interested in operating a layout that was small enough to set up at home. Even the modular club layout can only be set up in 'small' format in the clubroom so exhibitions are really important to me! It is the only time that proper operation is possible.

13 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Ta da

 

Opened to the chapter that interests me the most

 

Nice to see the Signalist searchlight heads on 'Minories' made it in to the book.

It is a shame that the 350 did not appear to be a success. I have a couple that were shown quite prominently on GMRC last year and people keep asking me where I got them, but alas they are like rocking horse manure now. I would love a couple of Dustys and 315s and maybe a 360.

I will just have to start modelling in N...

Looking forward to exhibiting the Essex Belt lines tomorrow with the rest of the Thamesiders (who are mostly busy on site setting up now!).

I'll be operating the Central Traffic Control panel for a couple of sessions so come and say Hi and see how the signals were controlled in the 1940s.

Thinking about getting one of these as, while I don't have an underground layout, I do have a secret love for the Tube.

 

£272 for a new set from LT Shop, although I seem to remember them charging more from the actual shop than online, but online you have to pay postage. However, I could get 10% off from a "welcome email" so not sure what to do.

 

Are they generally pretty nice units?

Anything that I should look out for that needs doing to the unit?

 

I've read about the dodgy renumbering. Not great on that!

 

I'd just be getting the 4 car unit.

Hi

The S-Stock is not tube - it is the larger sub-surface stock. The trains modelled as far as I can tell are all 8-car Aldgate Metropolitan trains rather than 8-car District or 7-car Circle/Hammersmith and City.

Not all the cars are listed on the website, but all appear to be available from the shop. If you only want a 4-car half-length set you should not have a problem. They did have a sale on, suspect that might still be the case from the e-mails I have been getting. There is a choice of three different trains offered but all Metropolitan Aldgate trains.

I rather like the look of the S-Stock. I am not a regular traveller on the prototype so not really an expert on their fidelity - but they do appear to give the right impression and people like the train.

As to running they are a bit of a nightmare. You get two power cars in each train regardless of length. Unfortunately there is no through wiring (through power couplings have been fitted - but not wired!), and drive is just from both axles on one bogie of each power car (rather than a central motor driving all four axles as would be sensible). Pulling power is somewhat limited so the traction tyres are required for anything other than a billiard table flat layout. When fitted with DCC the power pickups are sufficiently inadequate that power loss from one end or the other happens rather too frequently and the train will stop if one of the power cars is not running.

As has been mentioned there is no lighting provided in the intermediate cars - but pickups are fitted! Realistically it is required to arrange some sort of through wiring from the power cars to the adjacent vehicle for adequate pickup if you want performance better than a double headed Lima!.

If you are going to run on track with 3^rd and 4^th rails fitted you will have to modify the bottom of the bogies to clear the conductor rails. Bit of a cock up really this one.

Provision for fitting MTC-21 decoders has been made and there is space to fit speakers in each of the power cars. Sound is available from Coastal DCC.

On the whole I like the S-stock. Any review like this is going to look a bit negative, but if you can sort the through wiring and the bogie undersides you will have a nice train.

There is an article on page 50 of the latest MERG journal (vol 52 No4) I wrote about the electronics used on Walford Towers. 

We are seeing some quite nicely turned out EMUs nowadays too. The refurbed 321s are quite striking, and like the 350s make an attractive train that might work well in a train set which is where many start of course.

I am just hoping that the (nearly) empty shelves is because they have all ended up in Christmas stockings!

At the moment I am tempted to hard wire the driving and adjacent cars together in order to improve the pickups.

I will have to dig out the MPV and see what the contacts look like and see if something can be improvised.

I would love a 4-TC and a Metropolitan electric to go along with the S-Stock, but we are looking at a 4-car unit where the coaches work out at over £70 each, along with a £64 loco. The S-stock is an 8-car set which is even worse for those short of space (they don't appear to have produced a 7-car S-stock yet which would not be much smaller).

I guess that the lack of availability is just that we are in a period when manufacturers are doing something else with their scarce manufacturing capacity. Nice to know that there are still a few EMUs available. The price you have to pay when buying online has gone up a fair bit in six months though.

With the cost of stock nowadays an extra £40 for a couple of decoders in the driving trailers of an N-gauge unit is becoming chicken feed! Probably not an easy job putting conductive couplings in N-gauge. No excuse not to fit conductive couplings in the S-stock though - that is unforgivable.

Would be a good idea for manufacturers to make some of the 3-car EMUs for a change. 313/507 and 320 would be possible still leaving the door open for the 4-car 314/315/508 and 321/322. I think they have done most of the 2-car units seen in recent times.

I thought that the 350/1 might be more of a hit being dual voltage, 313 would perhaps have a bit more appeal for the same reason.

Following The Great Model Railway Challenge there have been a lot of people commenting on how nice the 350s looked on Walford Towers - and what were they! I tell people what they are and where I got them. At the time it was possible to buy 350/2 and 450 models in shops, but not 350/1 which were still available on a popular auction site brand new at a reasonable price.

But move along six months and unless you want a 2-BIL which are still available brand new for a very reasonable price and a few recently introduced main line EMUs it is very hard to get hold of any EMUs new at all. Have manufacturers given up on making EMUs? Has the golden age ended? Or has there been an event that has resulted in panic buying!

As many of you will have seen the Bachmann S-stock is a bit tricky to get running reliably as supplied when fitted with ESU sound. Having to fit traction tyres to the driven wheels rather limits pickup on the powered cars to just four wheels somewhat making the train pretty undriveable with a sound decoder in unless the track, wheels and remaining pickups are spotless.

Since all eight cars in an S-8 set have pickups I thought it might be a good idea to link the pickups of the intermediate cars to the power cars to provide improved current collection. The couplers appear to be similar to those fitted to the Blue Pullman - but without the electrical connections. Is it possible to get contacts for these couplers or get replacement conducting couplers? 

Search through this thread for more information, but speaking to KBG production is the best way to get up to date information. Expect there to be a bit of change before filming starts though.

Rough guidelines based on experience of series 1:-

Layout is 10' x 5' on a 3-part heavy MDF baseboard.

Budget is around £3000 spread over a handful of suppliers in discrete chunks.

At least some of the track has to be 16.5mm with a good loading gauge for the train mounted camera!

DC controller is provided but you can supply your own control system (DCC, Clockwork, etc.).

Track must be Peco and Peco static grass must be used.

You will supply your own stock (at least two running trains).

Get your team of six together and find out some interesting info about each team member, and get an interesting team name. Work out why you are doing this (telling production that you are the best modellers in the world should get you some screen time - but beware! Whatever you say can and will be used, and can be used out of context). Having some imaginative ideas of things you would like to include especially animations should help. If you want to be accepted don't be boring!

It is quite unlikely that you will be given a theme to work to and a definitive answer to whether you are actually accepted or not until shortly before filming starts, so use the time beforehand to work through a few ideas that will fit the space so you are prepared and can work something in to the theme in a couple of weeks. Plan where you will be able to set the layout up for the pre-build before filming.

What production ask for, and what the rulebook specifies, may be at variance to what the judges are looking for - so knowing who the judges are might help when choosing ideas to match the themes. 

I watched Model World in the '70s. The effect it had on me was to get a realisation that I could do a lot better than my bare track on a bare baseboard with a few buildings dotted around and produce something more scenic, more operationally interesting, and more in line with what was being exhibited without being an elite modeller.

I suspect the impact of GMRC will be similar and inspire people to try a few things and succeed. Obviously the format is a bit different to Model World but if there is a bit more demonstration of things and discussion of layout features in the next series the impact should be quite marked on people having a go who would otherwise be quite content for a while before giving up.

A more detailed focus on the scratch build challenge showing the techniques used to modify the items might help a bit too. 

On the subject of wiring up points wonder how Peco feels it comes across, assuming they have watched the programme - think how much quicker the matter would be if they were factory pre-wired with all possible connections  and it the purchaser had to snip wires off rather than solder wires on, and no damage likely from a stray soldering iron.

We did consider using the new bullhead track with Unifrog at one time, but the radius of the points was too big.

This is indeed spot on. However...

 

Watch a number of such programmes and you realise that the 1.2 Scottish teams on average becomes precisely one, with no statistical variation. You would expect there to be occasions when there are none, and occasions when there are two.

Well the TL Ninjas team was 50% Scottish, 17% English, 17% Irish, and 17% Welsh. That balances up the figures a bit. The Walford pre-build was done in Scotland - well away from the sound of Bow Bells.

Looking at what they were doing I got the impression that it was the need felt by most/all(?) the teams to use DCC for much of the stuff. I did wonder if the use of simple DC may have been easier and less time consuming. The remit was for the railway to operate well, that can be done just as efficiently with DC as DCC. Then you can keep the "animations" separately operated by buttons on the edge of the layout. Regards the firebox lights, keep one siding separate to the rest and have dud locos with just the light in the smokebox fed form a separate 12v source (I think that GM controller has one?, if not just use one of the controllers on it). I felt that to succeed you needed a fairly simple plan, anything to keep it that way would seem to be the way to do it. 

DCC does make life a lot easier in not having to wire up so much, and making a lot of other features like lights and sound on the trains possible (things the production team encouraged) as well as enabling the trains to run at realistic speeds without having to be poked by finger. Getting the track clean enough for good DC running of the 350s in the time would have been impossible.

1.  Why bother to waste time modifying points when they can be used straight out of the box?

A. They take a lot of keeping clean to work out of the box, just one spec of ballast/glue/paint and they don't work.

B. It takes just seconds to modify them.

C. With modern trains now reverting to needing traction tyres leaving 4-wheel pickup you do not want to be taking any chances - especially with sound fitted.

D. Points could be prepared as part of the pre-build for the most part.

E. You need to fit dropper wires for power feed anyway.

Conclusion - it is far from a waste of time! There was a lot of gunge flying around.

2.  Why have point motors which require to be screwed to the baseboard (one team did not have the right size screws)?  They could have used Peco points & their simple solenoids which attach directly to the points.

A. Fitting PL10 solenoids to the points requires a whacking great hole in the baseboard - much easier to just drill a 10mm hole that all the ballast does not fall through and fit the motors below.

B. Solenoids are a bit old fashioned - people expect to see more realistic speeds as the blades move smoothly across - not rapid movement with bouncing and a loud bang.

C. It is not that hard to fit a good quality servo motor under the baseboard with three screws in slotted holes.

D. Servos are cheaper than solenoids.

Conclusion - it is quicker over all to fit below the baseboard motors and looks a lot better when operated, and is cheaper too.

Not everyone used servos, I saw some Seep solenoids being used presumably to save a bit of money over the Peco equivalent.

Paul

In my mind.....anything that may end up attracting newcomers to this hobby is a good thing. Now, how about an American team for the next series?

How about an American series? I am sure I can rustle up a team of six fellow members from the NMRA British Region...