IanT

Nicely done Mark.

IanT

A fellow Gauge '3' member models early Victorian railways and has a few Modelu figures on his layout. They are very good and available in a range of sizes (3D printed) but get a bit expensive in the larger ones.  Although G3 is 1:22.6 scale (13.5mm) we are so near to LGB 'G' at 1:22.5 that it makes no visual difference. 

Geoff has photos of his 'Pre-1860' models on Western Thunder here:

Geoff's Pre-1860 - Western Thunder

Regards,

IanT

You are very welcome GT - it is a very fine model.

I've just found my favourite photo of your station (I looked for it the first time around but missed it). I hope you like it.

Regards,   IanT

It has gone on 'Tour' too from time to time.

We laid a temporary (300ft plus) end to end G3 track at Barry Island station some years ago - and needed a bit of layout dressing for interest - so 'borrowed' the station and various other scenic bits.  It all went down very well with the Public - we gave youngsters a R/C engine controller and told them they could travel up and down the line - but only use the single track sections if they had a 'token'. They were very well behaved too ( there were no accidents) - better than some of the adults!

Here we are setting things up before we opened for the day...

Hi GT,

I suspect you mean Gauge '3' (G3) which is 2.5" gauge - so 1:22.6 scale (13.5mm/ft) for standard gauge. Pretty much standard gauge 'G'.

See: https://www.gauge3.org.uk/

And yes, it certainly looks familiar, something like the one attached below I think. It now belongs to a Gauge '3' Society Member and is installed on his garden railway, although it only comes out on running days (it's not suitable for all-year outside use). A very nice model though. If you are the original builder, then I'm pretty sure I met you at a G3 AGM some years ago or perhaps that was the (then) owner?

Regards,

IanT 

Only just noticed this post.

There is a downloadable (PDF) article on building a stone viaduct available on the Gauge 3 website ( gauge3.org.uk ) that might be useful. It's from the Society's Newsletter from June 2007 but still current. There are about fifty articles available on the 'Downloads' page ( which is not restricted just to G3S members BTW ) and Adrian's article is No 35!

Regards,

IanT

PS Just noticed I can drag a copy here as a PDF!  ;-)

035_-_The_Stone_Viaduct_on_the_Knockwood_Line_-_Adrian_Booth_-_June_2007.pdf

Hallo James,

That's the 'Sirena' 5" locomotive James - which was actually the first thing we looked at (to base our Sentinel loco design on) however we wanted something a bit nearer to scale and decided Sirena wasn't a good basis for that. However - for anyone wanting a live steam passenger hauler, then it's an excellent use of a Stuart Twin. Station Road came up on the ME website recently, because they also have a very unusual 8-cylinder uniflow engined version of a 5" Sentinel on their site at the moment. That engine might involve a bit more work than a Stuart Twin though.

Nice photos of the NRM engine - I don't think we found these when we were looking for them a few years back, although we certainly found quite a few - and there was one of the NRM engine that I found particularly useful (not sure where it came from now - so I'd best not post it here).  What scale is the Sentinel model shown on your link?

This was one of our two 'test build' engines back in early 2015, which we took to our (G3S) AGM that year, It's at about the same stage as your one in the photo & before we had the spring/axle/torsion rod castings finished to dress the frame with. They do kind of grow on you!  :-)

Regards,

IanT

I wasn't too sure whether I would be swamped by demands for Sentinel drawings - so I was a bit nervous about making the offer. I've had one request thus far. He seemed quite pleased to find a source of drawings - but he hasn't replied (thus far) to the email I sent with the files, so maybe wasn't too impressed.   :-(

However, as "inundation" now seems very unlikely - if anyone else would like the drawings, I can probably manage another request (or so)

Regards,

IanT 

You just need to double up the scale Rod!  (Well nearly - it's only 13.5mm/ft)    :-)

On reflection, I should have placed this in the 'Garden Railway' part of the RMWeb forum - but perhaps it will still be found here. I've had one request for the Sentinel PDF drawings - by someone who seemed very happy to get them, so that was nice.

Regards,

IanT  

I'm not sure of the policies on this Forum (so hope I'm not breaking any rules)  but I've just commented about a Sentinel 100HP locomotive I helped to design as a Gauge 3 'Starter' engine on this RMWeb thread - Post War 100HP Sentinel . Anyone wanting drawings might find it useful...

However, as most of the contributors to that thread are probably working in the smaller scales, I thought it worth highlighting here - the availability of this G3 engine at what we hope will be an affordable price to anyone wanting to model in the larger scenic scales. We think that a RTR G3 loco - battery powered, with radio control for £660 plus shipping (£600 to G3S Members) will be attractive to anyone who may have previously seen G3 as too big, too expensive and needing too much room. I've placed a link in the RMW thread already mentioned but the G3S website can be directly found here:  G3 Society 

Regards,

IanT

I found this thread some time ago when researching the Sentinel 100HP locomotive for a Gauge 3 project that myself and two other G3S members were undertaking at the time. The idea was to design a simple and affordable RTR entry model for G3. After several false starts, I finally acquired a set of Sentinel GA drawings (thanks to the Sentinel Drivers Club) which were drawn full size in CAD - and then scaled to G3 at 1:22.6 (virtually the same as LGB 'G' at 1:22.5).  John (another G3S member) then produced moulds from which cast resin body parts were made. I produced two prototype chassis, using commercial parts where ever possible - and two 'test' engines were built.

For various reasons, everything then went quiet (family reasons etc) but last year the project was revived and the G3S commissioned a small number of locomotives to be built by an experienced modeller/member. The project was featured in Garden Rail last year (" A Little King? " -April 2019).

Anyway, these Gauge 3 locomotives are now available on the G3S website ( Gauge 3 Society ) and we think they are pretty good value as a G3 'entry' model - a RTR Battery Electric, Radio controlled scale G3 shunter for £660 plus shipping (£600 to G3S members). The engines have a two-stage motor/gearbox directly driving one axle and a small (almost scale) chain driving the second. The short wheel based 0-4-0 engine can manage small curves quite easily and works well as a Shunter - so a good engine for smaller layouts. I'll attach a photo taken of one of the engines running on the 'Rundle' layout this weekend at the G3S AGM. More details are on the website.

BTW - we decided to model the 'bunkered' version and spent a lot of time examining Sentinel photos (some from here - Than You) - so I would mention that over time many small changes were made to the engines but one that nearly caught us out was that the springing was beefed up at some point (more spring layers) and as a result the engine rode higher and things like buffer height were effected.

With regards to drawings, whilst I won't publish the CAD files, I do have G3 scaled drawings (as A4 PDFs) that were distributed to various G3S members during the project development that would give a good leg up to a builder in any scale. Please post a request on the G3S Website's 'Contact Us' page if you'd like a copy ( I can manage one or two requests - hopefully I won't be inundated ).

Regards,

IanT

Just some instant Customer feedback for you Andrew.

I went into WH Smiths to collect my EIM today and purchased the only copy I saw on the shelves - the so called "Bumper" Edition. I also collected & paid for some other mags for the wife at the same time. Checking later at home, I realised that I'd been charged £5.99 for my EIM. I assume that is because I also received a copy of Garden Rail (July 2019) - one that I happened to already have.

I'm guessing that you will tell me that the "ordinary" EIM was also available at the normal price of £3.99 (although if so - it wasn't obvious) but if that isn't the case, I may not be the only EIM reader to be a bit cheesed off by this practice. I will check more carefully next time I see an EIM "Bumper Edition" and will frankly think twice about buying it if the price is uplifted again...

If you want to throw in a free mag - then fine. But I don't want to pay extra for something I don't want or need.

Regards,

IanT 

The Gauge '3' Society's Model Railway Exhibition & AGM

Is being held this year at the Rufus Centre

Steppingley Road, Flitwick, Bedfordshire, MK45 1AH

on Saturday 23rd February   10am - 4pm 

Featuring

'Rundle' & 'Chalfont' G3 Layouts

Modelling Demonstrations

Model Displays - Locomotives & Stock

Trade Stands

Bring & Buy Stand & Newsletter Back Issues

Refreshments

Free Parking for Guests & Exhibitors

Visitors Welcome - Non-Member Show Entrance (Family Ticket) £5.00

Please note that entrance to the AGM meeting will be restricted to G3S Members only

See here for further details:  https://www.gauge3.org.uk/g3-spring-event-and-agm

Excellent work Pete - enjoying following this!

Regards,

IanT

Lots of careful work required Pete - but it's going to be a lovely engine..

IanT

Very nice - well done.

IanT

... which is strange. Naively, one would think it would be easier to work to exact scale the larger the scale.

No model can ever be "exactly" to scale - and "easier" is of course relative.

I've no idea how you'd compare 'scale' standards in any sort of 'league' but I do know that in both G3 & GL5 there have been standards of work achieved that would be very hard to surpass. This is clearly down to the particular craftsman involved - and of course great work (and dreadful stuff too) is done by folk in all sizes.

In terms of 'easy' - a larger scale almost demands more attention to detail, simply because it's much more obvious if it's missing in a larger model. So it's not really about being 'easier' to model in a larger scale - more a matter of how much time the modeller wants to invest in a model to achieve the standard they require - it's not really different from working in a smaller scale - although the time involved does probably increase linearly with the relative volume of the model....

Regards,

IanT

Not sure that MSWJR has stated the exact scale of his model Stephen - but GL5 is normally built at 17/16th  (1-1/16) these days....twice G3 in fact...   :-)

Regards,

IanT 

Much of this (subject of gauges) has been lost in the mists of time Trevor and also (to some extent) confused by various people claiming credit for establishing THE 'standard'...... (Henry Greenly being one such)

Early 'toy' trains usually didn't come with track, so the gauge of the engine was somewhat irrelevant. Marklin recognised that using a standard track gauge would be a big step forward in selling train sets and in 1891 introduced their Spur 1 sets, shortly followed by their Spur II & Spur III sets. Spur II was 64mm and Spur III 89mm. These are still the European (MOROP/NEM) standards - but I think it's worth noting that Marklin would have naturally used metric dimensions (not imperial ones).

In the UK, early German imports would have either been built to no particular gauge or possibly to Marklin metric standards - however there was no real 'standard gauge' consensus in the UK modelling community at the turn of the century. In the July 16th 1903 ME - Percival Marshall (the Editor) raised the question of "scale and gauge" and stated that "some time ago the Society of Model Engineers recommended building to two gauges" (3.5" at 3/4" & 5" at 1" ). However his Editorial then sparked much ongoing correspondence amongst the eminent model locomotive builders of the day (EL Pearce, James Crebbin etc) with all sorts of strange proposals being made. Much of the debate was about the best 'scale' to build in (rather than any standardisation of gauge) - there didn't seem to be the notion of achieving common running standards except among a few close friends (no public tracks back then). 

However, in the Dec 11th 1903 ME - the Editor wrote an article entitled "Standard Scales and Gauges for Model Locomotives" where the correspondence and issues raised previously were discussed - and perhaps more importantly, the following was also clearly stated:

"The small gauges are respectively termed 1-1/4 (No 0 gauge, 1-3/4 ins (No 1 gauge), 2 ins (No 2 gauge), 2-1/2 (No 3 gauge), and 3 ins (No 4 gauge) in model locomotive catalogues. The last named gauge, however is not 3" but 2-25/32nds between the rails. These standard gauges are used for 1/4, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2 and 9/16 models."

So it seems clear that these 'standards' had started to establish themselves in the UK by the end of 1903. However, they are clearly imperial in nature and I suspect here lies the confusion between European & UK gauge standards - the fact that European "Spur" gauges look very similar to UK "Number" gauges. However they are not the same.

(BTW - Early in 1904 Henry Greenly published the "ME Locomotive" in ME - using a 3-1/4" track gauge!) 

Sorry if this has been a bit off-topic - but there is a lot of poor information about in terms of how the larger scale track gauges developed here in the UK (different standards apply in the US) and I hope this helps clear some of this confusion up.

Now back to building some excellent 5" gauge wagon stock...    :-)

Regards,

IanT

G3 is stated as 1/22.6 which works out to 13.5mm/foot or 17/32"/foot. Around 1900, G3 was Gauge 2 which is where Spur 2 comes from. Also it was originally 1/2" scale, but modern scaling makes standard gauge scale almost perfectly to 2.5".

Plus, most 1/24 items are usable for details or figurines.

By that theory, Id assume 5" gauge was to 27mm/foot or so

Absolutely right in terms of scale Trevor but historically Gauge '2' (in the UK) was 2" gauge. Gauge '3' has always been 2.5" in the UK.

In the very early days, there was a good deal of confusion as to how model 'gauges' should be measured here in UK - these days the accepted gauge is the distance between the inside rail edges but at one time some manufacturers used the distance between rail centres (with an assumed rail width of about 2mm) so the quoted 'gauge' in early literature can be confusing.

The change from 1/2" (to 17/32nd) scale in G3 generally happened between the wars but some well known (in their day) model engineers stayed with 1/2" scale after WW2 (CM Keiller here in the UK & Victor Shattock in the US).

Regards,

IanT 

I'm not sure I'd agree with that Andrew. Yes, there have been lots of large, glossy photos of 'Rallys' and some nice models - but in terms of interesting 'content' (e.g. stuff I will refer back to or re-read) - it's been a bit thin recently in my view.

But Welcome - and all the best in your new job. I've always enjoyed EIM and look forward to doing so again.

Regards,

IanT 

Too rich for me Pete - I was upset when I naggered a £30 casting!

Regards,

IanT

Very nice looking engine Pete - and those castings do look good (but expensive I suspect).

Will watch your progress with interest.

Regards,

IanT 

I'm not sure I really understand your point N_S.  I've always viewed 'G' (e.g. Metre Gauge on 45mm) as being essentially the same scale as G3. Of course, some US manufacturers have played fast & loose with "G" scale - so I do understand that bit.

Fortunately in Gauge '3' we are unusual (unique?) in that we just have a single gauge & a single scale (63.5 & 1:22.6).  There is no 'fine' scale vs 'coarse', 10mm vs 1/32, 00/EM/P4 - or numerous different N/G 'gauges' being squeezed onto either 45mm or 32mm track - all called "16mm".

But clearly other folk are happy with the scale and gauge combinations they have chosen and that's great, I'm delighted for them.  So if someone wants to model standard gauge railways at 1:22.5 on 63mm track - then I'd wish them well too (although I'd be puzzled as to why?)

However, in my view - by definition - it wouldn't be "Gauge 3" - it would be something else...

Regards,

IanT 

"63mm is the new gauge 3 true 1:22.3 and equates to the G scale 1:22.5 so all the G-scale accessories are transferable."

​News to me - The Gauge 3 society track standard is 63.5mm (2.5") and if you buy track from Cliff Barker (recommended) then that is what you will get. It is also what every G3 modeller I know uses, both in their garden railways and exhibition tracks. This works out to a correct scale of 1:22.6 which I agree, is certainly near enough to 'G' scale (at 1:22.5) for both to use common accessories.

GRS were an early supporter of G3 but there are now many other G3 suppliers around these days, including Williams Models, Walsall Industries, Slaters and others. I'd recommend a look at Western Thunder (in the G3 section) to see some very nice examples of G3 modelling - but it's possible to make much simpler G3 models too - whatever takes your fancy.

Regards,

IanT