Laurie2mil

On 09/01/2024 at 19:39, 65179 said:

I love the sequence: check hair and make up; ring bellcode; set route!

 

It's a shaving mirror, Simon.  Don't need it any more!  🙂

17 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

17 hours ago, Yorkshire Square said:

 

I always thought you had a screw loose. Now I know you have! 😆

 

Seriously, that's one hell of a piece of engineering. Wouldn't it have been simpler and cheaper to move the loft ladder, though? 🙂

@ShadowinLinby has been asking @Laurie2mil the same question for many months.

We've all got a screw loose, Tony, just different screws in different heads.   @ShadowinLinby is doing Waterloo . . .🙂

35 minutes ago, ShadowinLinby said:

The instruction to leave the loft accessible came from Mrs Laurie. The fact that both Laurie and Mrs Laurie shouldn't really be climbing in to lofts seems to have been ignored. 

In all fairness, there is now more of my stuff in the loft than Mrs Laurie's.

The original intention was for the ladder to be at the edge of the room, between the wall and first roof truss and outside the edge of the baseboards) but when built the ladder unit wouldn't quite fit.  Bringing it one truss further in worked OK in the end and was the least intrusive option - it avoided all the scenic stiff and I could work the fiddle yard round it to avoid all the points.  There was always the hope of having a traintable about there for the Junction lines, and accommodating the loft ladder only meant adding making its deck removable - which the intrinsic drawer runner clips  enable without any extra work at all.

Thank you all again for your supportive (!?🙂) comments.  Re the track and running: I do spend quite a bit of time picking at the track to smooth out the lumps and bumps.  My 0.5mm file is my most-used tool!

Ding-ding!

Thanks Jim. 

Sorry about that - now corrected (they embedded this time).

Lauri

My thanks to Don and the others for their encouraging comments and interest.

To round off the saga of the Junction Fiddle Yard, a few words and pics about the control panel and operation of the Junction lines, which are effectively terminus - to - fiddle yard and operate independently from the GWR Weymouth circuit and Durston branch. 

DC, "traditional" control panels (with full route indication and simplicity of circuitry subordinate to flexibility of operation) and block bells might not be everyone's cup of tea but they are mine!  Like the main Yeovil Town (YT) control panel, the Junction Yard (JY) panel can be switched onto any of the 4 controllers at the Fiddle Yard end, and 3-colour LEDS (= 4 with red+green = yellow) show the route selected in the colour of the controller connected.  The JY is a single electrical section despite being fed by both up and down tracks; an up/down route switch and a switch for each storage road operate the points (via a diode/relay/ matrix and servos by Megapoints ) and the LEDs for the route set.  A "Control" switch puts the whole JY onto the end of the up or down track (controlled by the main Yeovil Town panel).  With an operator at each end (Junction Yard and Yeovil Town) trains are driven towards the operator.  The function of the control switch could be taken over by the signalling switches when we get to that stage in future years.

Communication between the 2 operators is modelled closely on the simple block system Peter Denny devised for Buckingham: a bell and push switch, and a knob with lights showing "normal", "line clear" & "train on line") for up and down line trains on each panel, and a much simplified list of bell codes.  The "block controls" are independent of all other electrical switching.

If there is just one operator (which will be the norm - just me most of the time), the JY panel can be effectively "switched out" (route and road switches "off" & Control set to "Yeovil Town"), the route into/out of the JY selected by duplicate switches now added to the Yeovil Town panel (relays prevent major conflicts, such as the route switches being "live" on both panels at the same time).

As well as showing the controller and route selected, the LEDs on the JY panel also indicate which YT controller has the up and down lines, and whether the JY has been electrically switched over to the  YT panel.  To mirror this, the YT panel also has LEDs which indicate whether the JY has been switched over to either the up or down line.

This all sounds rather complicated, but driving a drive a train (in either direction) just requires the JY operator to select the route (up or down), the storage road to depart from or arrive into, and the control to the YT panel - just 3 toggle switches - and if every LED along the route is lit for the colour of the controller in your hand, you're good to go.  The "block instruments" simply save shouting across the room - and, one step closer to the prototype, are a healthy reminder of how the real thing used to work.

So here are some examples of the control panels set for up and down trains.  First, the JY set-up showing the panel, Fiddle Yard with traintable (and the mirror and CCTV camera so you can see what's in it); the panel is showing "line clear" for an Up train departing from Road J, driven by the YT Red Controller:

And the same settings as seen on the YT panels:

JY panel showing a down train "on line" for Storage Road C, being driven by the Yellow Controller (located at the fiddle yard but plugs into the YT panel):

And to show the JY panel set for local control, this is the JY panel set for running round on Loop Road D under the fiddle yards' own Blue Controller:

Finally, a couple of short(ish) videos from YouTube, of the sequence at the JY end to drive up and down trains with 2 operators (using the block instruments); and from the YT end, with just a single operator (no block instruments - I'm way off an automatic Crispin!!):   

As ever, happy to share further details if anyone wants them!!

Laurie

Good to see Ian Smith at NMAG's Christmas meeting - especially as he brought up his beautiful Pen Mill South signal box.  Never mind the width, feel the quality!  It is small (like the real one) but perfectly formed - quite exquisite, complete with signalman and internal light.  It will be a while before it gets bedded in (have to finish the fiddle yard loops and control panels, then the rodding, then ballasting.  But here are a couple of pics of it in situ:

Very proud to have one of your models on Yeovil, Ian, thank you very much indeed.

What else can I say, Ian, but - beautiful work, thank you very much.  The Pen Mill end slowly develops and gains prominence: although initially very much an opportunistic "add-on" it will provide a very different (and very attractive if I can maintain Ian and Alisdair's standards) scene and operation to balance those of the Town station at the other end, and the lines going off through the Yeo valley.

Thank you too to Phil Sutters for posting your Dad's logs and photos: I have seen some of the pictures before but some are new to me, and every new photo shows some new detail - and more is visible on the less severely cropped photos in the gallery under your own ID.  Much appreciated.

Thank you for your kind words, @britishcolumbian, glad you've made contact.  Will message you off-list to follow up our joint interest in Yeovil Pen Mill!

Laurie A

PS.    To DLT: thank you for your interest and encouraging comments.  Modelling the triangle was not on the original agenda, but became possible when the railway room became available (another way in which I am a lucky boy).  It looks a large expanse in modelling terms, but is still contracted to less than 1/3 of the real thing, which means it will have to be visually presented as 3 dioramas (one in each corner) separated by the coppices and trees which lined the river, instead of the singular continuous expanse of river plain that it appears to be in reality - but I think that will still work artistically.

Laurie

This signal box is coming on beautifully, Ian: a big thank for your work on it and the contribution it will make to the Pen Mill end of the Yeovil project.  We have both poured over the few photos of it we can find, and the blurred postcard you show above is the only one which shows its rear, with what we take to be an upper story extension ?WC.  The box closed in February 1937; here is an enlargement from the best picture I have of the front, complete with wobbly chimney (I'm happy for you to keep yours straight, Ian!): 

Still at the Pen Mill end, we were pleased to welcome our chairman to the NMAG meeting last Sunday, where he educated us all about bridges and viaducts, occupation bridges and culverts, and drainage and the the folly of underestimating its importance.  He brought with him another gift for Yeovil, the A30 road overbridge which will be the scenic break at the Pen Mill end.   This is an elegant elliptical stone arch which is better recorded photographically than the signal box.  Alisdair has modelled it complete with the wooden staircase which gave access to the shed and signal box from the road above:

The bridge obviously needs properly bedded in (the 2mm ply needs to be properly shaped and stuck down flat onto the baseboard), and will need to be lift-offable in case the switch underneath it needs attention.  A big thank you also, therefore, to Alisdair. 

I - and Yeovil - are very fortunate to benefit from the skills of both Ian and Alisdair, and to others who have contributed to the project in an increasing number of areas.  Thank you!

Laurie

Thank you all again for your interest and suggestions.  To pick up on a couple of specific comments. 

Yes, all of the points (and signals when I get round to them) are/will be activated by analogue servos controlled by Megapoints servo-controller boards, which even I with my non-electronic brain find easy and flexible to install, straight-forward to programme, and slick in operation.  I think the cost of this arrangement compares very favourably with, eg, Cobalt or Tortoise motors, which are currently advertised at £15-18 each cf. c. £12 per servo/MP operated point (the 12-channel Megapoints control board operates 12 points for £66 + servos and microswitches @ <£3 each).  I don't have any experience of Megapoints other than the Servo Control Boards, but I'm certainly a fan of those.

I believe there was an occasion when the up ACE passed through Yeovil Town (? major works closing Honiton Tunnel, or ? flooding at Cowley Bridge): routed from Exeter to Taunton along the GW line, thence the Branch through Langport-Martock-Hendford to Yeovil Town, then Town -> Junction, reversing there to continue on its more familiar Southern metals.  So certainly a precedent for a Bulleid with lots on leaning into the reverse curves on the Town-Junction line (in addition to Rule 1 which positively demands it).  Another reason would be one of the summer Sunday excursions starting from Yeovil to the coast - and the Southern berthed stock overnight at Yeovil Town for excursions from Sherborne as well.  Though 11 on may be excessive for the annual Sunday School outing.  Line speed was 40mph max. but the curves were sharp so the leaning into them was quite visible (and I've attempted to be prototypical re this on the model).

As for HSThingummies, 12-car CEPs and other electric acronyms.  The ultimate objective (dream) would be to assemble a stud of locos and stock sufficient to operate a representative sequence of movements and services at different periods, but this would be so great and varied that stock and particularly locos will always be the limiting factor for the project in my lifetime.  So any that can be begged, borrowed, loaned, afforded, traded - in fact, anything that moves - will always be most welcome.  No need to wait until I make the coffee.

Laurie

Thank you, Jeff et al, for your reactions and compliment - encouraging as always.

Laurie

That was my first thought, Ian (or Wizard - my other go to source) - but I can’t remember their layout at Derby exactly now.  Hobby Holidays (Phil Atkinson in the next village to us) lists a lot of Plastruct sections but I think only plain sheet, but you’d find him very helpful if you asked him about it.  Would be worth asking him if he could order you what you want if he doesn’t stock it. 

Laurie A

David (Long)  - was it Gaugemaster?

Laurie A

Another big thank you, Tony. It’s just brilliant work - I’ve seen it in the flesh and the photos don’t lie (apart from the new cleaner just taken on at Yeovil Town shed). 
You’re just wasted in EM and O, Tony!

Laurie

Agreed, and my thanks to you too, Tony, as ever!

Jerry - I think you’ll get some fly-wheel effect from the mass of those drive shaft mountings as well. You could try and design the drive chain and the set of the motor in the tender to max the size of them and thus the benefit of this effect - the old-fashioned mechanical stay-alive for us DC sauropods. No question the small flywheel in my old M7 gives a real advantage. 
Laurie

I think the day did go very well, Ian, from all the comments that came back to me (and my own enjoyment of it), and it was Modbury and your talk that was the main draw (why we had our best turnout so far).  It is you to whom the thanks are due.

It is just such a beautiful layout, with wonderful workmanship.  As well as its USP's such as baulk road and scale point rodding, one of the things that makes it is its consistent scale and period.  This is another of those features which is not immediately obvious but just contributes, along with all the other details, to making it all just "look right": so you start to look more closely, and then analyse just why that is.  It is a rare pleasure, even in the finescales, to see a layout where everything is built to  the same scale and period - and I speak as a staunch defender of the "Rule 1" philosophy who will be using a mix of scratch-built 2FS and proprietary N conversions, and running anything from Adams (no relation, sadly!) and Dean to Riddles.  There is no doubt that your adherence to a consistent scale and period in Modbury makes for an utterly convincing, coherent and special historic model. 

We were priviliged to be able to see it up close for a full day and hear how you conceived and built it, and our sincere thanks to you for taking a long day out of your weekend to bring it up to Clayworth for our benefit.  That you achieved Modbury from a standing start re your knowledge and skills, and when faced with a problem just learnt the new skill for the new technique you needed, is a lesson to all of us to just make a start and get on with it, and not be "frightened".  One thing about our Association is the wealth of experience and support that is out there, and the willingness of our members to share it.

Thank you for sharing Modbury with us on Sunday, it certainly was/is inspirational and I hope you get your mojo back soon (I'm with Tony G on that).  Maybe Kath's cake (a scrumptious red velvet  this time) will prove some encouragement!

Laurie Adams

10 hours ago, Richard Hall said:

Those two curved turnouts are D12s, and even then the radius is down to 17" coming off the running line into the siding.  Is that too much to ask of a six-coupled locomotive in 2mm?

 

Richard

It might be, but personally speaking I’d lengthen it a bit and try and get the minimum radius closer to 2’  through the point. The tight spot will be the check gauge at the crossing; slight gauge widening might help, and be prepared for some “fettling”.  You’ll have to build your own with that geometry so soldered construction gives you scope for adjustment. The 0.5mm file will be useful too. 
If it does prove too tight, don’t be afraid to lengthen the point - the 2FS track and wheel standards will still give smooth running. (The longest point on Yeovil is an E15, admittedly on a much larger radius, which runs very well - just needed two functioning tiebars yoked together to keep the flangeways open through the switch). 
You just have to experiment when you’re pushing the boundaries. 

Laurie

Gizmos - can’t beat ‘em. 
Brilliant, just brilliant, Nigel. 

On 05/09/2022 at 10:15, 65179 said:

 

Late LMS van, SR CCT, BR CCT, something else, LNER/BR brake van (can't determine how long the footboard are on my small screen).

 

Simon

On 08/10/2022 at 13:19, Siberian Snooper said:

Usually NPCS trains, as above have a BG vehicle for the guard, rather than a freight brake.

 

 

Point taken, Siberian Snooper, thank you for your interest.

I wanted to see what an approximation to the train in the photograph would look like on the model with the SR vans and BR loco that I have, based on Simon's identifications.  For the LMS van on the back, I just added an SR one: maybe saving a path and loco by tripping the brake van down to Yeovil Town on the back of the parcels, to be used down there for one of the transfer freights perhaps?  Just a thought - the operations side and stock knowledge are still steep learning curves.

I should acknowledge that I'm very pleased to be the custodian of the Scenery van built by Chris Waite (CXW1 of an adjacent Parish), and of all the other vans which came from Bill Rankin's bench.  The loco is the overscale Langley Class 4 whitemetal body on the old Poole Farish Black 5 chassis it was designed for, with a crude attempt at finescaling to make a "quick" layout loco.  

Laurie

My apologies for the delay in my reply, Bruce.  A number of things have come at me from left field in the last 3 weeks.

My only lever frame at the moment is for Yeovil Town Goods yard, which (conveniently) has the necessary 5 levers.  The lever frame is the Scalefour Society one (Mark 1) which makes up beautifully but - as an etched kit - does require some putting together.  The feel of it is lovely, tho' - Tony Gee said why bother to connect it to any points at all and not just keep stroking it from normal to reverse to normal to reverse to normal to reverse . . . . . . . .   I've soldered a brass bracket front and back so it can sit lower into the board and send the wires off underneath to the points:

The lever frame is designed to take a standard small micro-switch for each lever, but for this one I've preferred to fix the microswitches for crossing polarity at the other ends, and drive them from the linkages to the tie-bars.

The Mark 2 Scalefour Soc. leverframe has the advantage that it allows its microswitches to be removed individually, without having to dismantle the whole thing if you've ganged up a number of them side-by-side to make a long one.  My servos are currently all operated by simple toggle switches (chiz chiz) but the plan for the main control panel for Yeovil Town Station is to replace them with a leverframe one day which will need to be 45 levers (ie. 9 of the Scalefour Soc. units), each fitted with a microswitch to operate its servo via a relay.  I'm thinking to get over the issue of microswitch extractability by keeping each 5-lever-frame unit separate and not putting long pivot rods right the way through them all.  Will have to see if that can work out neatly - but it's a very long way off!

The lever frame is connected directly to the SME - now Wizard Models - wire-in-tube (Code SM4) which I find superb: the tube is PTFE and virtually friction-free and can be brought down to about a 3"(7.5cm) radius without a problem, but does need to be supported all along its length due to its flexibility.

The same wire-in-tube operates the wagon turntables from their sliders, but this runs on the surface of the pcb which forms the "baseboard" hereabouts: I used "No More Nails" or something similar with good initial grab all along it for these and kept smoothing it into place (wetted fingers) until it set hard enough to leave safely alone and hold it down: 

However, to hold it in place my preference is to thread the PTFE tube through brass tube (I/D 1.6mm min) which you can bend how you wish above, under or through the baseboard and round obstacles, simply anchoring it at each end by soldering to a short countersunk brass screw screwed into a convenient piece of wood (extract the PTFE tube before you solder (!) - it threads back in  easily).  I'm afraid I don't have any photos of it under the board for the goods yard above, but I'm using it to take the drive from servos on the surface for the fiddle yard and Pen Mill points:

All points bar the 5 in the goods yard use servos (I like the HobbyKing HK15178 analogue servos):  those at the Yeovil end are mounted directly under the point tie-bars and drive them directly (bar 1 or 2 which use wire-in-PTFE-in-brass tubes where it's a bit congested, all still under the baseboard).  I would have mounted them on top (I don't guzunder as easily as I used to, and it's easier adjusting and soldering from on top) but there's a brook c.10' below rail level tight up along one side and the tractor-go area on the other which make a direct wire-in-tube from the edge of the board difficult. 

The omega-loop function is most easily achieved by bending a simple zig-zag in the wire, best done with round-nosed pliers to reduce the risk of fracture from making the bends acute (but the wires are easy to replace when they're on top).

At the Pen Mill (other) end and in the fiddle yard there is no problem with it all being on top, and the 1.6mm O/D of the PTFE tube is an easy slide through a channel cut in the 2mm ply trackbed to get under the tracks which are in the way.  They can get to look a bit messy, tho':

3 of them had to go through the baseboard in a swan-neck bend and then run underneath to the point tie-bar 'cos I forgot to channel out the trackbed before I laid the nearest track (dohhh): 

The final linkage for these uses the old GEM Mercontrol piano wire in copper tube - it's the stiffness in the wire which is important and depends on the depth of the board/length of tube and length of the operating arms above and below to get the right amount of twist and bend to act as the omega loop in the linkage; the old GEM stuff seems just right.   (And you can see I drilled the holes for the tubes in the wrong place too):

The use of electrical point operation for the great majority of points is determined by the need to change the operating panel positions depending on staff levels (enough for both or just 1 control panel) -  and the flexibility of same to guzunder. 

Megapoints + analogue servos + microswitches works for me and is, overall, no more expensive than, eg.,  Tortoise or Cobalts.  Like you, Bruce, I have c. 40 points in the fiddle yard when it gets maxed out, and the main issue for me has been the expense of servo mounts cf. home-made.  I have tried making a variety of brackets to hold a servo and microswitch from various aluminium angles and channels, and have now settled on the simplest of all: a square hole drilled/sawn in the baseboard top and the servo below screwed directly into it from above, as in the pics.  The microswitch is also screwed straight onto the the board top and operated by one of the servo horns.  For 6mm and 9mm thick board tops the dimensions work out perfectly with minimal packing for the microswitch.  No cost, least work, and lowest profile for a top-mounted servo and switch, so easy to hide behind a backscene, under a low embankment or in a building (the ones in the picture above will be behind the backscene). 

Sorry Ian, just picked up your post.

Yes, Chris is correct, it is water soluble.  I have come to rely on this inadvertently-discovered bonus technique!

I lay a few ml of water down the middle of the track with a syringe and needle (but the syringe works well on its own) along the offending section and for a few cm onto where you think the alignment is right, dab off the XS after 1/2 a minute or so, and leave it to soak in for a few minutes.  Then gently try and ease the track across with my fingers - if it doesn't want to go, leave it a few more minutes and/or add a little more water.  Once happy with the alignment, put something long, flat and heavy (a ruler with weights is good) on the track and go away.  Check it's still all good after 5 minutes (and 10 minutes) - and if it is, leave it alone overnight.  If not, ease it some more.  If it's already being grabbed, add a little more water and repeat.  You can do this a few times.

When it's all dry, if you find the track isn't fully stuck down all along, you can a) either wait for the ballasting to fix it (with care no ballast gets under the sleepers which lift), or infiltrate some of the really runny cyano (the 5" glue-your-fingers-together stuff) round the edges of the sleepers (put a fan on so you don't breathe the fumes in) and hold it down with the ruler for the few secs until it's fixed.  The cyano option is your last go at it, though. 

Bon voyage,

Laurie

You’ll never do it.

Speak from experience. 
(  :o))  )

Laurie

Well, I didn't expect such a wide and complimentary response to the video!  Seriously, though, big thank-yous to everyone who has watched (even a bit of) it and written or reacted to it.  It really is very encouraging and flattering, and it does help keep the mojo going - the mojo that gets you into the room and puts the soldering iron on, not the one that keeps reviewing the plans and pictures.

The Pen Mill and Weymouth  "end" evolved as the dreams of a railway room became reality.  I am a very lucky boy.  At the outset, I just wanted to model Yeovil Town to scale: the approaches at both ends would be determined by how much space was in whichever room I was allowed to put it in, and would probably resolve into going straight into a short sector plate or traintable.  But with the building of the railway room there was suddenly the space to model the railway triangle (and the generous fiddle yards to run it) in a continuous loop with reasonable radii on the scenic section (the sharpest radius is the transition down to 3' as the 4 tracks leave through a cutting, they're a bit sharper in the fiddle yards).  Then it was just a Templotting exercise to try and get the best proportions I could visualise in my mind: I've just been too impatient to build a model of the model, I'm afraid, tho' I can well see its advantages).   

I am pleased with how the flow of the lines has worked out, and I think - more by happenstance than judgement - the proportions work out OK.  The length of visible runs on the whole Weymouth curve and Junction line reverse curve are 14' and 13'7" respectively (which scales at c.0.4 miles), and on the branch from YT to Pen Mill 10'3" (scale 0.3 miles).  But from the observer point of view, that's probably about right: how often does a viewpoint allow you to see a whole 14-coach train?  Given our normal viewing distance and field of view, a 12-coach Channel Island Express would occupy c.40% of the scenic'd length of the Weymouth lines. 

If the wide vista is your thing, I think there's something about that ratio - your longest train occupying 1/3 - 1/2 the visible length of track - which just "looks right" to me.  This was another lesson from Buckingham, where the layout is clearly divided into separate visible sections - effectively dioramas - which are relatively short and with curves which are now regarded as quite tight.  it works because you sit close to the layout, inside the curves, and the longest trains on Buckingham are a 5-coach express behind a 4-6-0 and a 13-wagon (all short wheelbase) train with 0-6-0.  They both look impressively long and are clearly "the big trains" - because they fill about half the length of track you can see in any view.

It all shows just how much we have to contract things in our models.  In my view (now), a big layout works best "artistically" if it is divided into a series of scenes, each about the width of our visual field when seen from the intended viewing distance. 

When I first drew out the triangle, I thought the space was huge and I could re-create its open parkland feel of flat pasture with a decent river meandering across it, populated by many full-grown specimen trees dotted here and there across its acres.  But my mind was working in modelling mode:  when Ian Smith gifted his lovely specimen trees, modelled to a full natural height of c.70' (and how did you know there was a  Scots pine copse , Ian?) - they triggered the necessary reality check: just a single elm in the middle looked gigantic - as if a 4(or even 7)mm tree had been transplanted onto the 2mm layout.  

So a re-setting of the ambition and concept. Although apparently very spacious in modelling terms, each side of the railway triangle is still only about 1/3 as long as it should be (the 4-track cutting would be in next-door's greenhouse), so this end can't be to scale and has to be "based on".  The views naturally concentrate on 3 areas: Pen Mill junction and shed, the crossings exiting Yeovil Town, and the coming together of the Weymouth and Junction lines.  There are natural copses at the Pen Mill and YT ends : they won't completely stop you seeing YT from the Pen Mill end (or vice versa), but like a theatre in the round, they will frame the view at one end or the other, and keep the focus there.  The hills and cutting at the third corner where the 4 tracks "disappear" will frame the view there.  The River Yeo and its mill stream and tributary brook will still be there across the middle, probably just with some "river-bank planting" to complete the scene and keep things in proportion.  Certainly no room for the parkland acres and specimen oaks! 

Re-reading this, a final point: please don't think I don't equally admire layouts which craft a narrow view of a train passing the end of a street, or between industrial buildings - these are equally ways in which we are see real railways (probably the more usual ones), and equally enjoyable and impressive when modelled.  I like it all!!

This all started out with the intention of simply acknowledging and thanking every one who has expressed an interest in this project, and somehow has morphed into quite something else.  If you've followed so far, the photos and plan below might help.  My apologies for wandering off-piste.

Laurie