62613

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

 

Except that Doncaster designed a series of 4-8-2s after WW2

Just because something is designed doesn't mean it will end up being produced, especially if circumstances change, e.g., nationalisation in this case. I've produced many a concept drawing down the years ("Can you do me a building layout showing the positiions of all the reactors, retorts, etc?")

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

As a parent, with spouse and kids what is the right way in thinking ..?

 

use the car and wait until i’m 60 ?

by that point my kids are fully grown car addicts as well… Plus it’ll probably be me on my solo travelling by then as my other half isnt exactly a fan.

 

more closer to the point, as its £160 for 2 adults,  1 child to Warley this weekend, I wont be taking the train for the weekend break it is.

 

so correct my thinking for me ?

 

at c£30 in fuel, with that saving ive a family meals all weekend and parking all thrown into those savings.

its not just long distance summer holidays the rail has lost, its anything involving parents with kids in leisure time…

please dont tell me the correct thinking is to take WMT for an extra hour.. kids to entertain.. yeah ?

 

in 7 years time 60 year olds will be born in 1970, after the glory days of rail and instilled in the heyday of the car.. it will be a new generation that will have grown up without the train, theres a high probablity there will be a number of seniors having never ridden a train in their life…

 

You want to attract more to the train, a former work colleague, who will hit 60 this year flew upto Newcastle from LHR for a weekend… when I said why didn't you take the train her reply was “TRAIN ? F… that”…. You’ll not see her with a senior railcard anytime soon. Most people I work with only use a train to commute, and they dont do that anymore…its a lost revenue group because the railways chose to lose it, but it is the group that subsidizes it and the group with most money.

Mr. negative strikes again. Many problems, no solutions. Should we then shut down the railway completely?

1 hour ago, DenysW said:

Just for clarity, what was asserted was that:

 

-   The country will not borrow a huge pile of money well after the next election to fund HS2 parts 2A and 2B

-   Instead the country will borrow the same huge pile of money on the same timescale to fund a larger number of smaller capital projects to do with transport

-   One of these will reduce the number of potholes by long-lasting road reconstruction and resurfacing, instead of short-term fiddling-around filling-in of the immediate holes. Thus really capital spend, not something that automatically should come out of revenue.

 

What the truth will be is immaterial at present as all of this is too far into the future to predict - i.e. after the next election. It will also be implementation dependent, possibly making @jjb1970's summary accurate.

But if you watch the Green Signals podcast mentioned earlier you discover that, after the binned Golborne - Crewe leg, part 2A unlocked the most benefits in terms of increased capacity, because it bypasses the significant bottlenecks on the Colwich - Stafford - Basford Hall stretch of the WCML. It's 36 miles, over very easy terrain, and any normal government would have ensured that it was built. 

Their equation of HS2 doing for the railway what the motorway network has done for road travel was insightful

9 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

This quite long Podcast explains the Handsacre problem very well. 

It's fascinating to hear some one who actually knows what he's talking about explaining things.when Professor McNaughton appears. 

 

Jamie

 

 

Ouch! a very good summary

5 hours ago, MarkC said:

I feel your pain. About 25 years ago, my ship's incinerator control panel died, and the maker advised that the unit was obsolete. They offered a different item; this was received on board with no specific instructions for installation.

 

I worked out a suitable scheme, which took a couple of days to do properly, wired it up & tested it. All OK. I sent a copy of my drawing, with details of necessary modifications to the machine & its cabling, to my Superintendent for filing in the Office documentation.

 

2 months later, a circular from the makers was received, advising that the control panel on incinerator Type xxx was now obsolete, but a suitable replacement was available from them, and here was a copy of the modifications you would need to do... yes, my drawing & notes, verbatim...

 

I called the Superintendent. Oh, he says, I just forwarded your stuff to the makers to see if they had any comments to make. Sorry...

 

I was NOT impressed...

 

Mark

That's why we started issuing drawings in .pdf format, complete with all the various title blocks! Much more difficult to substitute another title block in that case (it's happened on CAD!).

23 hours ago, 43110andyb said:

 

one for the ‘when the real thing looks like a model’ page!

Cycled on there a couple of times - now the Sett Valley Trail

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

JJB you missed something out.  Money which hasn't yet been borrowed (so doesn't actually exist) to fund  major infractstructure construction programme is somehow going to be created out of thin air to fill potholes.

 

You might of course very reasonably ask where road maintenance funding was being spent while all these potholes were forming?

It wasn't there either. All local authorities have been subjected to massive cuts in their central government grant.

What about Mill Reef?

8 hours ago, Strathwood said:

The suggestions for names could be far worse if we drifted back towards the likes of Top of the Pops and Jimmy Saville you can see what I mean...

 

The regimental names employed by the LMS, LNER and to a lesser degree by the GWR were inspiring, as were the Squadrons on the SR, along with distinguished Admirals, even BR joined in with some good choices for Britannia names which in turn evolved into a decent selection of names for Peaks, Warships and Deltics. Even regimental names were considered for several Class 37s.

 

This brings me back full circle to suggesting that those who came up with the likes of those two names above around Top of the Pops and many similar "daft" names, perhaps thought that in naming D822 Hercules was after the Warship for sure but by the time they got around to naming 50007 as Hercules in 1978 it was after Albert Steptoe's horse, hence renaming 50007 to Sir Edward Elgar (Edward the green engine)?

 

Kevin

Hercules was a battleship, though; 10 x 12", 4" secondary armament. I think a single - ship class, the last before the Super Dreadnoughts appeared

21 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

My secretary refused to type it !

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I wouldn't dare to have asked my secretary to type a letter to someone with that name - she'd have been incapable due to her laughter!

Perhaps she thought it was a wind - up! I have heard of a referee called Richard Cockhead

C4243; Brrrrrrrr......!

5 hours ago, Niels said:

It is not a poppet valve gear but four low-mass piston valves per cylinder.

Try to find  the drawing in first link.

 

Cossart balance rod

Awful lot of stuff going round and round!

I seem to recall a photo of this train at Preston, in colour, in an around - the - turn - of - the - century issue of Backtrack. Certainly between about 1999 and 2005. The loco was the main subject, but and the leading coach was definitely blue/grey

18 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

Well, that would put me off, if I were a customer. I've got used to the speed and convenience of self-service checkouts - those using hand scanners are even better. Most supermarkets offer both self-service and manned checkouts and I think that's a good idea.

 

Yours, Mike.

As with ticket offices, provided the manual checkouts are manned in sufficient numbers for those of us who have problems with self serve every time we use it.

On 08/11/2023 at 05:17, kevinlms said:

It turned out just as well that BR was slow electrifying out to say Shenfield only, as any further would have meant even more for conversion to the AC system. Something the French and other European railways, still have to provide for as they have extensive 3000V DC systems.

Are we talking about the changeover from 1.5kV d.c. to 25kV a.c.? The LNER started work on the Shenfield electrification in 1938 and because of the delays due to WW2, electric services started in 1949. BR wasn't even thinking of high - voltage a.c. until the mid - 1950s

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Not really…
 

 

Thats £15.65 + afi

those 45p increases do add up though, 12 million would add £4.8mn to tfl revenues… about the same as this consultation and negotiation cost would be my bet, by the time this is done and dusted, taking into accounts discounts etc I bet this is a net zero.

Damage to Khan.. oh yes.

restoration to Tories .. no.

 

politically this hasnt helped anyone.
so both lose.

That reads to me like inflation plus 3%, so 8 - 10%. £16.48 to £16.78 next year! Still a bargain, though.

18 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Trains being assisted in rear were not necessarily coupled to the banking engine - some places banked "loose" which meant that there was no need to stop the train once the train engine was over the summit and coping by itself.  Depended on local practice (local instructions).  It was not completely unknown in this situation for the banker to fall away from the train before reaching the summit if the train engine was up to the job but the banker itself was having problems.  It was then important that the banker did not try to catch up again cause a rear end collision, also that the signalbox should not give train out of section until the banker has also arrived.

One of the causes of the Tyne Dock accident in May 1915, about three weeks after the Quintinshill disaster, was the signalman forgetting he had a banker standing at one of his signals and accepting a passenger train on the same line

14 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Real time generation by type. No waves and tides, some wind (variable), lots of gas etc (also variable).

Which is daft IIRC; The UK is on an island, around which tidal flow is constant and predictable (and in some places with quite a tidal range). I suppose that "environmental issues" and cost have scuppered most of the proposals brought forward. On the latter, those that run our country seem to know the price of everything and the vaalue of nothing. Sorry for the diversion, but isn't power generation fundamental to running an electrified railway?

On 02/11/2023 at 16:32, whart57 said:

I was told thirty years ago by my manager, who to be fair was merely passing a message from the Chief Exec down to the minions, that our job was not service to the customer but it was to increase shareholder value. If you want to know the reason why everything is so these days that's it in a sentence.

That's the rules in the UK for publically quoted companies at any rate. It is theur fiduciary duty to do so

5 hours ago, Rowan said:

@KeithMacdonald Many thanks for posting. This is educated guesswork. Looking at the Cynwyd bridge, I think the deck structure fitted within the depth of the lower panels. Bearing in mind the bridge would have been built when this section of the Ruabon/Dolgellau line was constructed (1885ish) I recon the basic structure would have been short span brick arches between riveted iron 'H' or 'T' section beams. I doubt these beams would have spanned abutment to abutment but spanned the shortest span from plate girder to plate girder and would probably have been located at the plate junctions where the girders would have been at their strongest. The roadway above the arches would have been formed of crushed stone in layers, each one getting finer. In 1910, there would have been no macadam surface, just fine gravel.

In the photo, the plate girders appear to be supported on corbeled padstones. These appear to corbel out to increase the width of the abutment rather than reduce the span of the plate girders, which I find a little strange.

To get the required depth of girder, they may have been plates with steel angles rivetted to the upper and lower edges; that would give something for the top and bottom plates to be attached to.

On 28/10/2023 at 10:52, CWJ said:

The Brewery Tap just outside Leeds station is very convenient and always has several ales on. Last time we ordered food it seemed to be an on-site posh-fast-food arrangement in a cardboard tray, but very tasty.

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Head of Steam at Huddersfield station which has a wide range of ales, decent food, and railway memorabilia on the walls of one room. The exit directly onto Platform 1 has saved me missing trains on at least one occasion...

Also, The Kings Head on the other side of the station steps. Further along towards Manchester, over the road from Greenfield station is The Railway. There is, or used to be, a reasonably decent one on Dewsbury station, whose name I can't remember. Another nomination for the Left Luggage Room on Monkseaton Metro station 

10 hours ago, locoholic said:

I haven't really been following this thread and I'm rather intrigued by the recent comments, because no-one seems to have picked up on just what a crisis this represents for the whole rail industry. HS2 is just the highest profile failure in a trend that has been gathering pace for years - how likely is it now that electric trains will ever reach Oxford, or run from Manchester to Leeds, and how likely is it that East-West Rail trains will ever get any nearer to Cambridge than Bedford, or even that passenger trains will run to Portishead?

 

The evidence that is currently emerging regarding HS2 shows an industry that knows it delivers poor value for money, and resorts to deliberately under-estimating costs as the only way to get approval for a project. That's a stunt you can only pull so many times, and it's unlikely to work again. That means that the rail network will gradually atrophy, instead of developing to meet the needs of the country, regardless of the flavour of government we have.

On the first; closer than you think, as the recent work from Manchester to Stalybridge, and the work just started between Huddersfield and Dewsbury shows. That leaves three fairly small gaps in electrifying the entire line between Liverpool and York; unfortunately, two of them are probably the most difficult on the whole route.

On the second, can you point to a major engineering project, private or public, and particularly a railway one, that has ever come in at its original estimate. We've alraedy had the original GWR; several of Brunel's other projects (all three of his ships, for instance) came in way over cost; the original estimate for the Great Northern Railway was £3 million; it turned out at double that, and never reached its prime target, York.

And so on, and son.... 

11 hours ago, mac1960 said:

Melmerby

A slight recovery, but it does not address Bonds already issued at different rates. There has been a concept perpetuated that money not spent on HS2 extensions can be used elsewhere. That money has yet to be borrowed it’s not in the bank to be used. What needs to happen is that we don’t draw do that debt. 
Would you be ready for say, the end of the Triple Lock, NHS rationalisation, cut in Defence budget, other infrastructure programs, the list can go on. 

 

13 hours ago, mac1960 said:

I’m not sure some of you  realise but HS2 is paid for by borrowing , not from your taxes directly.

It’s a bit like putting it on your CC and unfortunately going by the interest being levied on UK CC , we are not being looked on in the world money markets as being very credit worthy.

The result is we are paying extremely high interest on our Govt Bonds in comparison with similar economies.

 

As a result , who ever enters N10, and I know this is politics to a degree but it should be considered.
 

However some party will have some very very tough calls to make, and to be honest there will be a lot more sacred Cows to be looked at ,over and above the expensive train set. Buckle up and cross what ever, as I am not sure it’s going to be very comfy for a lot of people. 

Some of us have been pointing this out for a while, now; one of regular contributors pointed it out yesterday.

5 hours ago, APOLLO said:

There is a new(ish) component in UK (world, pick the country) politics, the ever increasingly powerfull but non elected (by you and me) world organisations like The WEF (World Economic Forum), the Davos elite and what they decide, G7 (G insert no.etc),  the money men (IMF, EMF), the worlds interconnected banks, the UN etc etc. These people increasingly run the show. UK (name the country, USA included) politicians, all colours, dance to their tune.

 

A bit of info here.  https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/A-Guide-to-Committees-Groups-and-Clubs

 

These co-ordinate and sort out (or create !!) world problems going forward, They have a good chance of introducing / enforcing their views on all. Climate change / Net Zero etc being just one, They may be right or wrong on this thorny subject (or as I think somewhere in between !!).

 

Like it or lump it, energy is life, energy is transport, energy is home comfort, affordable food, goods etc. The era we all, worldwide, have all taken for granted and enjoyed of cheap energy (oil, gas, coal etc) is coming to an end, globally, and quickly with few practical viable alternatives. Electrification (though do able) is expensive and is neither an affordable or abundant energy source for many . Hence the push to 15 minute cities, expensive EV's that few can afford, work from home, you name it.

 

The political solution to transportation now seems to be to demonise travel and downsize or just plain wreck it (i.e. let the rail strikes continue). The onslaught on the motorist increases relentlesly, and is now turning to the rail traveller, We have just seen what is happening to HS2.

 

Then we have the stupidity and greed of a few in senior positions causing worldwide grief and two serious wars going on at the moment, and a few more simmering. 

 

It doesn't matter who you vote for in the UK (or US) the problems are many and worldwide.

 

I do not know the answers, perhaps they are not solveable on a world scale.

 

Brit15

The age of cheap energy came to an end between October and December 1973, when the price of crude oil increased from $3 per barrel to $11 per barrel. As you may recall, that and the OPEC embargo had a cataclysmic effect on the world economy

5 hours ago, DaveF said:

Photos from trips to Ratcliffe on Soar,which is still between Trent and Loughborough on the Midland.

 

The two photos taken in the snow would have been in the first week of January 1979.  It was a very cold day, on the way from Mum and Dad's where I was staying I passed a number of lorries which had broken down as their diesel had frozen, one had a small fire going under its tank.   At the time I was driving a Citroen Dyane which had an air cooled engine and a starting handle which was useful when it was really cold and the battery became a bit feeble.

 

 

Ratcliffe on Soar Class 45 up June 76 C2825

 

 

Ratcliffe on Soar Class 47 47488 down Nov 77 C3625

 

 

Ratcliffe on Soar Class 45 up Jan 79 C4252

 

 

Ratcliffe on Soar Class 45 down Jan 79 C4254

 

 

Ratcliffe on Soar Class 45 down April 80 C4988

 

David

C4254 just oozes cold!

On 16/10/2023 at 08:55, russ p said:

Morning David, just take it easy.  Hope you are feeling better soon

On 16/10/2023 at 07:56, JeffP said:

Ah, sorry, you're right.

I must have a blind spot towards Ilkeston after the last nine month's goings on at my football club...