37505bstp

6N13 at Redcar Bulk Terminal - 14 May 2020

66097 in DB Schenker Red plus 66093 in original EWS - both in multiple hauling 38 MKA's mainly in DB red but a fair few in National Power blue

Taken today at work.

DB Cargo 66021 & 66044 working in multiple as 6N13 departs Redcar for Scunthorpe.

Exiting the Redcar Bulk Terminal loading station - 38 on in a mixture of DB red & de-branded National Power livery

The cabin with the yellow door is one of the rail weighers - max 3mph

Running Tuesday, Thursday & Friday this week arrives as 6N23 at 0641 with booked departure at 1207 - today the service ran approx 90 mins early - fully loaded with coal for British Steel.

quick update.

Paid my £150.00 deposit via Paypal using my credit card.

the card issuer first looked at chargeback but then advised to claimed under S75 - usual drill lots of evidence sent in.

Now received 'ex gratia' credit in full into my account.

CC is a well known store branded type, which is actually operated by one of the big 4 banks.

In an email exchange with Mr Jones at the tail end of 2018 when I'd had enough of his bluster and asked for a refund, the said Mr Jones stated that one of the many reasons I could not have refund was due to him having paid VAT on the deposits I was reclaiming.

Re-reading the emails it is now clear DJM was financially busted at the time I was talking to him then, no doubt the Bank of Wishful Modellers had stopped advancing funds and it was probably becoming apparent to him that a number of longstanding backers were writing off their deposits and not intending to remit future instalments. 

Have monitored this thread throughout, I see it as group therapy given that many others are sharing my modelling disappointment and financial discomfort. I have now registered with CG and sent off my proof to them, Credit Card issuer is next on the list.

hello IMT and thanks for your advice you appear to have more knowledge in the law than most of us on here.

At the present I am calmly resigned to writing off my 'investment' with DJM.

I take on board that if I want to take this to law that the formal letter advice is the soundest way to proceed but I am not at that stage yet and I believe that it will either be ignored or get just more of the same vagueness in reply from DJM. I have considered dropping a line to Trading Standards to see what they think in general as the way this is progressing it seems unreal.

In addition to my earlier DJM extract when asked for a refund see below.

He was still my mate on 31st December when I received this

"Your decision to cancel your order when the model is about to go into tooling is a dissapointing one, and leaves a very large problem in the fact that your crowdfunded monies have been spent on the models development in line with the crowdfunding principal.

for instance, 3d cad/cams, 3d printing, advertising, decoder purchases for testing, field trips to double check measurements etc and dont forget the VAT that has had to be sent to HMRC as well, totalling £30 of your investment total alone.

As you know this is a crowdfunded model, and as such all monies are spent this way, once milestones are reached i ask for second and third deposits to allow for tooling, and production of said models."

Kindest regards

Dave

23 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

 

Speaking generally I would think it entirely reasonable if there are questions, for crowd-funders to be able to ask for a breakdown of expenditure to date on any crowdfunded project they have an interest in, so as to be able to reconcile that to the funds paid in and to validate that the funds used in each case have indeed all been spent appropriately, including any remuneration if that was part of the agreement. Records should be kept by way of a clear audit-trail.

 

This is simply my opinion (as I cannot declare an interest in any DJM project that is currently funded) but for me, simply saying "it's all spent" as above really wouldn't be sufficient - how much has been spent and specifically what on would be my question. 

 

Others may of course differ and others again be satisfied with the answer given, and I respect that.

 

Roy

 

 

 

My email extract is only one of several in getting Mr Jones to respond, initially ignored, then he's my mate, when he finally twigs that a refund is being asked for a somewhat a series of wooly diatribes and justification of what he has had to allocate our cash to but certainly no breakdown of it. It's the usual story the world in against him and he has in no way been responsible for or contributed to this.

I find him to be as I said your best mate if you are praising him or signing up - ask a genuine question that may put him on the spot and the tone soon polarises to brusqueness and evasive answers.

One poster suggested a formal recorded letter, I doubt that even this would elicit a professional response.

He is the only trader I deal with that cannot send emails to my address, they don't just bounce back, apparently my service refuses to accept them, I pointed out that his business is the only one of several that appears to have this issue with a BT address and that it was peculiar that the only emails I did receive were the invoices for the deposit.

to dispell any hopes that refunds will be made against Class 92 N gauge model I offer the following communication from Mr Jones.

"Meanwhile i have to point out that the project is crowdfunded and as such all monies spent have been invested as per the ethos of the crowdfunding operation. Where customers sign up, pay a deposit and that then gets invested in the project. This i have done, and there is currently no monies in the bank until i ask for the tooling monies in a few weeks. I have not hidden away, been quiet on the situations or hat the monies from customers was for. 

I have also updated my web site and , until recently, forums, with updates on the situation, the factory move, cad/cam designs etc, and the press have also had press releases along with DEMU and the N gauge society magazine.

I hope this clarifies where the money has gone, and why, and that you are part of the crowdfunding for the model, which is now very close to tangible, visual progress."

Presumably this applies to the OO version as well due to the fact it also has been through the 'factory' saga.

To clarify I received this 1st January with to quote "now very closet tangible, visual progress" it's now May - 4 months have elapsed and even allowing for Chinese New Year - no advised progress, he hasn't even called for the second instalment. An out an out mis-statement as per usual.

APT wise I do not know the refund situation as the N version failed to gain the numbers but even if it had I was not going to commit, but all he has done is CAD which he has repeatedly stated is cheap so I would summise that he would have to prove that it was all gone and where.

Yes I have lost deposits for a few of these models, I am grown up enough to have known the risk, that risk has gone bad so no more funds will be going to Mr Jones I have written my deposits off to experience.

Does this put me off crowdfunding - overall no but it does make me more careful - I supported the Pendolino and IZA's, for the former it was a long wait but communication was good and I have at the end of the day received many real and excellent models from the crowd-funder - I now await Sturgeons, KFA's, HOAs and car carriers yes its still a risk but one I am comfortable with as they have a proven history of delivering on what they say they will.

The n gauge market is small, crowdfunding is only supported by some of the n gauge market proven by the fact that all crowd-funders have sometimes struggled for sponsors to get projects going .

Over the last 2 days DJM's behaviour appears to have alienated a fair proportion of his existing customers including me, god knows how many potential customers he has put off, or how  the retailers that have arrangements with DJM now perceive this farce, he may survive this or he may not but he has undoubtably just made it a whole lot harder for himself.

Like others have commented I decided before Christmas that any further monies requested by DJM will be declined due to lack of progress, little in the way on communication and updates, many broken intentions and milestones, the factory change, supplier disagreements, the web site, the Companies House embarrassment and my email bounced back - strange how the deposit invoice email didn't, nor does any other business, individual or group trying to email me!

I totally agree in that I consider any further payments as throwing good money after bad.

I was in for more than 1 - even so after 2 years although I don't like losing money I have written it off as it was paid so long ago. and what have I paid £30/model this is less than 30% of the full price so do I really want to throw another £75-85 at this with no faith left in either the project or manufacturer.

Prior to the New Year and after several unanswered emails, (no news letter received - apparently I bounced back), I finally had an email conversation with DJM in early January- and no you cannot have any deposit money back as it's all been spent on the 'work' so far - CADS, 3d Prints marketing, field trips to measure up, DCC chip testing, even the VAT was mentioned on the deposits.

So any of us who do decide like me not to go any further with this pantomime it's adios to any deposits paid.

Some may say I am wasting my investment I look at this way - I could invest a further 70% and still have a very prolonged wait, or not get a model at all, or I can bow out - yes losing my deposit.

Or I can wait until any model of a class 92 arrives, if it's DJM then it's the retailer option - safe and no risk, if it's Accurrascale then I will see how they progress and maybe commit if I see positive progress down the line or even wait until the model is in manufacturing if the order process is still open.

If they both come on stream and the market is awash then I can see plenty of retailer sales happening with the DJM version for sure, and probably a fair amount of eBay sales as well.

We all have to make our choice - some will see it out and some like me will not, how that pans out for DJM with project cashflow I do not know but in my professional experience given the woes we all know about with this project any cash contingency he may have built in has likely also been eaten up and I would be surprised if he doesn't either ask for a price increase or cheapen the product. 

various 66's on mostly coal for Drax & Fiddlers Ferry plus a couple of iron ore trains for Port Talbot

more of 66504 departing Redcar Bulk Terminal as 6H53 for Drax departing the site at 0943hrs.

Should be on this service for remainder of the week.

66504 departs Redcar Bulk Terminal for Drax Power Station - Thursday 3rd January 2019

The pre-order page is still active for both N and OO gauge Class 92, which logically suggests that it is still possible to order.  So if it were myself and I wanted one then I think I would simply place an order via the DJM website and await a response.  I'm pretty sure that Dave mentioned that it was still possible to order anytime up to when he next needed to collect payments.  The worst that happen is a response that says, "Sorry, too late"... but if you don't try...

 

Anyway, here is the link... http://djmodels.co.uk/?page_id=47

Thanks for above, already tried this and an email but no acknowlegement, hoping Dave will provide a straight forward yes/no answer.

tried looking for the answer through the many pages of this & the n gauge version but cannot see a clear answer as the closing dates were put back several times.

so is the sign up for these now closed to new subscribers, if not how do you subscribe now? or is to a case of order the retail versions? (interest is n gauge).

Is this project for an N gauge class 92 still alive?

I ask as I have in recent weeks expressed an interest in 3 models using the DJM web site, twice sent and no reply.

Sent an email to the address as per the web page - ditto response - i.e nothing.

Now joined RMWeb as this forum seems at times to elicit a response on what the position is.

Strange as DJM want crowd funders and repeatedly ask for support, all I want to know is am I wasting my time? dependant on this response is my willingness to place a further order for a rule 1 King.