stevetreble

While delighted to see Bachmann release these models they all appear to have the same buffers which don't appear to be for correct any of them which seems a shame considering they have gone to the trouble of fitting them with sprung buffers.  On the https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh3062.htm link it says:

The vans all had .... sprung rod (diagram S8) or self-contained (diagram S9-11) buffers.

GWR Goods Wagons by Tourret et al says on pg 345 "The first to be built were 75 BLOATER Diagram S8 vans on carriage Lot 1258 built between Feb 1916 and May 1919 and numbered 2139-2213." Then on pg 346 they go on to say: "The next to be built were 25 BLOATER A Diagram S9 vans ..... numbered 2114-38.   These differed from S8 in being dual braked,  and having self contained buffers."

On that basis Bachmann's model of 2123 is a S9 and should have self contained buffers.  Number 2168 is a S8 and while difficult to make out what type of buffer Bachmann has put on these models it appears to be a ribbed buffer rather than the correct type as seen in the photo of 2207 at https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh3062.htm 

Why take a gamble on a higher cost item for a limited market when there are still many mainstream items to do that follow your 'normal' model? Seems more like good business practice than blinkered.

Because there is probably a lot less chance one of the other manufacturers will duplicate the model ruining your sales prospects as we've seen with the likes of the 4MT and numerous diesels.

Because the approach of releasing a more niche model at a higher price and in a limited run appears to work well for other manufacturers both in the UK and overseas.

Because the time to do it is now, certainly not in 20 years when the market for some of these models is likely to be even more limited.

The truth of the matter is a lot of the people releasing limited run RTR models of less mainstream locos both in the UK and overseas in 7mm or HO are smaller manufacturers not the big players. Not being party to Hornby or Bachmann's business model with regards to development and manufacturing costs, number of sales per model and profit margins I have no way of knowing whether or not there is room in the way their businesses are run to try things a little differently. But, I struggle to believe when I see RTR models in 7mm being released for the Saint, Star, 64xx and 74xx classes, that there isn't a market in 4mm for these locos for some manufacturer to tap into even if it means paying a premium for them.

I suspect you're right though, that if any completely new GWR models are to be produced by Bachmann or Hornby, then Bachmann either alone or in partnership with the likes of NRM is probably more likely to do it than Hornby. Hornby, more than Bachmann have a lot of existing GWR models in their catalogue that would benefit from retooling before they're likely to think about completely new ones. Boring, but understandable. That is why what is happening in 7mm RTR at the moment is in many ways more exciting to me than 4mm.

Bachmann have not just released a City, the NRM has released their model of City of Truro which is made for them by Bachmann. Bachmann may or may not be able to use the tooling from this eventually to do other class members but it was an NRM project to model a popular preserved loco.

 

In that context it is unsurprising that Bachmann are reluctant to model a class that didn't really make it into the most popular period.

 

I would imagine we'll see a new King from Hornby before the earlier 4 cylinder type for the same reason though there is an eventual NRM tie-in with Lode Star.

 

Maybe the Saint model will come with the Didcot one taking to the rails.

 

I don't find it unusual to see more kits in 7mm now, 4mm has always been a more RTR scale and many of the older finescale modellers seem to up scale over time to 7mm. Pete Waterman is probably helping out the larger scale quite a bit here too!

Thanks for clarifying how the City came about. When you say there is an eventual NRM tie-in with Lode Star, does that mean you're aware that NRM plan to release a Star at some stage as well? If they do, I hope it is successful, and if it is successful I hope that prompts someone to take a punt on the Saint. The Stars didn't last any longer than the Saints, and if the Star is a successful release then that would suggest a Saint could be as well.

I think you missed my point about 7mm as I referenced the availability of both RTR and kits in 7mm which in my opinion have progressed in leaps and bounds in the last 15 years compared to the developments in 4mm. Off the top of my head 7mm RTR steam outline engines can be sourced from Bachmann, DJH, L H Loveless, Golden Age Models, Lionheart, Tower, and Masterpiece Models. I realise that a lot of these are sold as kits, but the kit manufacturers themselves offer them as a finished product, so that counts as RTR as far as I'm concerned. Returning to the Saint as an example there are kits available in 7mm from Slaters, Just Like The Real Thing, and DJH with the DJH one being available RTR. I suspect all three of these kits are of a higher quality than the SE Finecast and dreaded Proscale ones available in 4mm. In fact, I suspect the standard of kits overall is a lot higher for locos, coaches and wagons in 7mm than in 4mm, but that may have more to do with the fact that there has traditionally been less competiton in the past from the RTR sector in 7mm. As well as a RTR Saint in 7mm the prewar GWR modeller has recently been blessed with a 64xx and 74xx pannier, a stunning Castle, and will soon have available a Star and an Autocoach (that looks far superior to the old 4mm Airfix one).

Admittedly we've had a few new models in 4mm RTR recently, but a lot of them have been new toolings or revamps of existing models such as the Collet Goods, 57xx, Hall and the soon to be available 28xx and Castle. As a result, there is a sense of deja vu with recent GWR releases compared to what is going on in the 7mm scene. And when the manufacturers have released completely new models such as the Grange and County, they're unfortunately locos that came too late for a lot of pre-war GWR modellers.

I guess what disappoints me is that there has been nothing truly fresh and exciting in the recent releases from the 4mm RTR manufacturers for the pre-war GWR modeller. When I hear people saying that they think Bachmann aren't keen on doing a Saint because it didn't last into what is now the popular period then I'm left with the feeling that our 4mm manufacturers have blinkers on when it comes to the way they do business. It's about time one of the 4mm manufacturers had the courage to ignore the whingers who complain that they don't want to pay more then xxx for a model and release a model that may have more limited appeal, but do so at a higher price and even in a limited run (to increase demand). I'm not saying it has to be at Masterpiece Models prices or anything close to that, but I would happily pay twice the price for a limited run model that didn't have as wide appeal as say a Castle. This type of approach works in HO in the American market, and would appear to work in 7mm in the UK market, so why not OO? And if someone thinks twice the normal price is too much for a limited appeal 4mm RTR loco, then I have a SE Saint kit in the cupboard awaiting construction which has probably cost me that already. Because, to bring it up to current day RTR standards I've added to the basic kit, a Perseverance chassis, Mashima motor, High Level gearbox, Ultrascale wheels, other casting to improve on the originals, cast name plates and a Mitchell tender. All those bits have cost me nearly GBP 250.00 and I haven't even built it yet! If a RTR manufacturer was to release a Saint at a retail price of GBP 250.00, then I wouldn't quibble at the price. They may even get a few BR WR modellers buying them too. I have a Heljan Hymek and Western in my collection that will never be seen on my layout, but I still bought them because I just like them!

Interestingly I was talking at a show to Graham Hubbard of Bachmann, about a Saint.As they do the Hall it wouldn't take much more to produce the Saint.However he wasn't keen and didn't think there was a call for a loco of that time period ! Perhaps we can now ask Hornby for the Star.

How sad. There is at least a decent kit for a Star available in the Malcolm Mitchell range, but the SE Finecast Saint is definitely showing it's age, and I doubt we'll see another kit in 4mm for a Saint now. For that reason, I would love to see a Saint released by Hornby or Bachmann, even more than a Star.

Bachmann's response seems even more odd considering they've just released the City, as the Saint's were far more numerous and lasted for another 20 years after the Cities disappeared. Perhaps the NRM shared some of the development costs of the City making it more viable for Bachmann.

In many respects there actually seems to be more choice of high quality loco models for the GWR modeller in 7mm scale than 4mm now, when you add up what is available in those respective scales in both the RTR and the kit scene. And that is something I wouldn't have expected a few years ago.