CliveM

Okay, I've gone "off piste" with my final two photo's but perhaps the historical interest is worth it.  The first is the old Speyside station.  I took this on holiday back in 2001 and yes, it's still there, in exactly this condition!  The owner was using it to house pigeons and hens!  This was the Elgin to Aberdeen line via the coast.  The second photo is the wonderful and notoriously difficult to find Knockando (pronounced Knock 'n doe).  Set deep in the Speyside hills it was renamed by the distillery that owns it.  For the model maker, notice the platform supports, rails, cut and buttressed up against wooden sleepers!  All original, further, this station had a wonderful, ornate underpass for passengers to access the other platform.  The underpass is now, sadly filled in.

Admittedly we've strayed into the '90,s but just for the fun of it here are two photo's taken by me.  We were camping not far from this location, and could hear the train leaving Oban three miles away!  The first is a regular Timber flow where the wood was loaded between Taynuilt and Dalmally, then forwarded on.  For a while Taynuilt was a very busy siding.  The photo is the (diverted) Euston sleeper, ex Oban.  Obviously some issue going on up at Ft Bill but nice to see a direct sleeper service to/from Euston for Oban!

Class 20's did make the occasional foray to Oban and I recall one heading the first train out of Oban for Q Street, must have been '76 or '77.  So here is 20901, admitedly early 90's now.... this was on the tail end of the weedkiller train. 

Another busy scene in Oban, circa '78.  Two of the original English class 27's spluttering away, awaiting their next thrashing out of Oban.  The odd Class 26 made it up here on one or two occasions too.

Here it is, the very first Deltic arrives in Oban and as you can see, not exactly a huge amount of interest!  In fact there was me, my brother (just along for the 'bike ride) and the platform staff.  The train was packed with day trippers and it was a lovely warm sunny day for them - quite an achievement for Oban!  You'll note the new brickwork on the station building, and freshly painted station in Caledonian Blue (not BR blue).  The staff kept the old station clean, fresh and inviting - all tyo no avail as just four years later the station was closed.   Sorry about the poor quality, taken with my Kodak, but I was there

On 08/04/2021 at 00:04, EddieK said:

Around the mid 1980s, as I recall, the coaching stock used on internal ScR services gained "ScotRail" branding. This was in the form of white lettering, in the same font as the "Inter City" lettering applied to Blue/Grey coaches. 

There were coaches painted into ScotRail livery, but these were typically used on more high profile routes.

I think it all started under Chris Green, he was a far sighted manager and could see the eventual demise of the BR corporate Blue, and let's be honest - drab and boring doesn't even begin to describe that era!  Also, by the early/mid 1980's the new InterCity livery was appearing, all part of a new, fresh marketing approach I guess.  My last journey up the WHL to Oban was Sep 1986 and guess what?  A class 27 with three shabby MKI's... However the loco put in a great performance, adhering to the Class 37 timings throughout, including the obligatory 10 minute refreshment at Crianlarich and a quick chat with the Oban train crew.  I just wish I had kept all my old photo's from that era, poor quality, but they did tell a story of a busy wee station with a mixture of freight and passenger work.

This is the late train, ex 1800 Hrs or thereabouts setting off for Q street.  These trains were often loaded to at least 7 often 8 during the summer months.  The train on the left is a Euston special, load 14, Daytripper.  It had left London the night before, arriving Oban about 12 hours later.  The passengers seemed a jovial lot for such a long journey in MKI's and off they went to Mull, Iona and Easdale.  Four class 27's and a total of 22 MKI's in Oban that day, it was busy!

The Daytripper left Oban 30 minutes after the late train, once it had cleared the first block - Taynuilt.

A bit of a conflab going on here as the leading loco was being typically cantankerous, every time the train crew tried to put the multiple working cables on all hell broke loose!  Fire bells ringing, engines shutting down...mercy me!  It was decided to couple the loco's the other way around, hence the unusual move, which worked.  Confirmed when FULL POWER was applied from a standing start and both loco's rocketed across the points into the middle distance.  Driver Herbert Blaney in the first loco, his mate Ian McKenzie and Neily McDougal, at the points.  All now sadly gone.

Can't recall the number of the loco, sorry!  The WHL was dominated by Class 27's in those days and the same loco would often turn up day after day!  This loco would do the afternoon shunt, move the two MKi's into the bay, shunt the 5 ton coal mineral empties out of the coal yard and then disapear for an hour down to Connel to collect the Shell tanks.

Here are a few more phot's of Oban circa 1976 whilst on holiday.  Sorry about the quality as I only had a cheap Kodak camera.

A general view of the platforms.  Note how the loco off the first ex Glas Qu Street is berthed over to the left.  The two MK I's on the right were off the 0100 ex Q street.  This train usually consisted of a BG and BSK.  It was usually crammed with mail and parcels with limited passenger space.  However passengers did use it for connections to Colonsay and Barra.  The coach in the bay is a BG which will be added to the late train.

On 05/04/2021 at 13:03, Western Aviator said:

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned it already but weren’t there some excursions to Oban in the early 80s featuring a Deltic and one of the Glasgow-Edinburgh push-pull sets? I don’t know how many times it ran but it fits the OP’s time period and would be an easy train to model; Farish do the DBSO and Deltic, Dapol do blue/grey Mk3s. 

I have some holiday snaps taken on the very first occasion of a Deltic visit to Oban.  Yes, the push/pull MKIII set was used, and looked rather out of place to be honest, obviously the first time such stock had been that far West too!  Edinburgh train crew worked throughout with a Pilot from Eastfield, plus traction inspector.  All photographed as per below, sorry about the quality!  You'll note the Deltic left Oban on one engine!  At about halfway out (Soroba) the other engine burst into life and the train flew up to Glencruiten! 

2 minutes ago, CliveM said:

The stock was shunted onto the old Ballahulish platform at the station, and was added to the late train during the afternoon shunt turn.  In those days there was a mid afternoon booking on turn for men to shunt the carriages, take the daily BR ventilated van from the small goods depot and place it in the goods yard for the return overnight freight, and then they would sometimes run down to Connel light engine to collect the ESSO tanks and be back for 4 pm.  All in all a busy wee shift.  I have some old phot's I'll dig out and post up.

ADDENDUM

Here is a pic from circa 1978.  It shows the two carriages off the 0100 berthed on the left, the set on the right was "probably" the miday as it is a lenghty train.  During the summer months all the WHL trains were stremgthened to 7 coaches.  You'll also note the small goods depot to the left, on this occasion there was no BR van so I guess this must have been a Saturday.

5 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

The 0100 Queen Street to Oban last ran in the WTT year starting May 1981. I am not sure how the stock of the 0100 returned, the booked trailing loads of 245 tonnes indicates 7 vehicles. The 3 daytime trains from Glasgow to Oban were all booked 280 tonnes, the first two trains of the day back from Oban were 280 tonnes whereas the last train was a coach less at 245. In general terms of rolling stock only two rakes were required to cover Oban diagrams, one overnighted in Glasgow and the other at Oban.  

 

It is a mystery to me how the stock returned, it is not clear from the WTT! 

The stock was shunted onto the old Ballahulish platform at the station, and was added to the late train during the afternoon shunt turn.  In those days there was a mid afternoon booking on turn for men to shunt the carriages, take the daily BR ventilated van from the small goods depot and place it in the goods yard for the return overnight freight, and then they would sometimes run down to Connel light engine to collect the ESSO tanks and be back for 4 pm.  All in all a busy wee shift.  I have some old phot's I'll dig out and post up.

On 24/03/2019 at 18:10, caradoc said:

 

bcnPete, something was nagging the back of my mind about that picture so I took another look, and the wagons described in the caption as OBA (wooden-bodied) are actually OCA (steel-bodied) ! I hope you haven't gone and bought a load of OBAs in the meantime.......

"a number of OBA wagons at Oban carrying bagged aggregate"... Dried sea weed from South America, for the alginate factory at Barcaldine.  The contract ran for three or four years and provided a much needed boost to the line.  The alginate factory closed and work went to China and San Diego.

On 24/03/2019 at 11:27, jonny777 said:

On a winters day in 1984, I took this photo at Queen Street. My memory suggests that it was an Oban service, which was one of the reasons for taking the photo. 3 Mk1s and no first class from what I can see. Loco is 37192. It may not be much help, but it gives me a chance to reminisce.

 

Cats eyes and no tail lamp... suggest a shunt move to me.

On 04/05/2020 at 16:51, PenrithBeacon said:

I can't help but think that the reputation of the Type 4 Sulzers has suffered over time because of later reliability issues.

In steam days cruising at 60mph was considered to be the gold standard and this these engines did day in day out on the Midland mainline out of St Pancreas. I vividly remember returning to Manchester in 1965 or so and the locomotive just hit a mile a minute for tens and tens  of miles to Derby. At the time I thought this was extraordinary but in truth they were doing it all the time which made it even more special.

Yes, steam loco's were slower to get started, but their ability to consistently maintain line speeds was in their favour.  I know a lot of older BR drivers who went onto the diesels were surprised at how the power handle was left wide open for mile upon mile.  That was a new experience to them.  Of course the diesels could really lay down the tractive effort at low speeds, but the tractive curve dropped away quite dramatically at mid range speeds.  The much larger steam loco's wheels would of course be an overwhelming advantage at that point. 

The diesels are often mention in rather disparaging terms relative to the steamers.  However these folk are often viewing the world through rose tinted sentimental spectacles.  The diesels saved the railway in this country, they worked day in, day out, and were often in appalling condition, clocking up astronomical mileages that no steamer ever could.  When BR ordered the class 45's, that single class of loco was brilliant for passenger/heavy freight use.  Upgrading the engine to a 47 output was a mistake, and they were all derated to the same HP as a 45.  The weak link for the 47 was the daft serck radiator system which required constant checking/topping up.

17 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Probably because the EE4s only delivered around 1600 HP at the rail whereas a transient effort from a Duchess - which they were to replace - could get somewhere nearer 2900 rhp when climbing the Northern fells with 13 coaches or more - a challenge the Peaks were less likely to encounter.

All correct although we have to remember that whilst both types of loco were designated Type 4, they way they delivered that power (tractive effort) was very different indeed.  The old Class 40's were a dependable and well proven engine, but had a fixed radiator and limited amperage per hour rating.  The Class 44's broke that barrier, with an electric fan, and higher tractive rating, all from a 12 cylinder intercooled engine.  Class 40's were okay for load 9 on Class 1 trips, and they put in some very good performances on the Highland Mainline circa 1970's from the Scottish crews.  The big Sulzers reigned supreme in my opinion, the 45's being the best of the bunch.  (We seem to have strayed off the point a wee bit again!)

22 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

Evening Clive and welcome to this chat.

 

Would be nice if it were that simple .Peaks had OHLE flashes when built see https://www.derbysulzers.com/45122.html - but they probably did acquire a few more.  Any 45/46 was likely to work under the wires from 67 onwards when Birmingham New Street was electrified - but prior to that there was Woodhead of course....

 

Take a look at the attached database for details of the locos we have modelled - BFYE livery no certainty and even getting air brakes was no guarantee that the bodyside footsteps would be plated - see 78. Makes for interesting modelling!

 

Cheers

Loco details.xlsx 16.25 kB · 7 downloads

Yes I do agree with your comments and in fairness I mentioned the addition of flashes circa mid 60's as the peaks were just about everywhere on the Midland (LMR) by then.  Strictly speaking of course, I'm now refering to all 44/45/46's and not just the original batch.  However BR in their usual calamitous methods would have loco's plated when/if called to works.  So although there was consistency in their approach, i.e., all loco's to be altered by a certain date, the actual implementation of said policy was often left to operating managers/engineers.  So it was not unusual to see some loco's plated over several years  after their stable mates.  The class 47 boiler filler was similarly treated,some being done years after authorisation.  Given the sheer number of loco's and availability you can understand why the operating department were reluctant to take a good loco out of traffic for something as trivial as the boiler plating etc. 

Usually when passing through Works, or other remedial attention.  BR wanted all boiler fitted locos with ladders/steps etc blanked off when electrification really got going - mid 1960's typically.  If a loco - any boiler fitted loco - went through works and came out in BR Blue then all plating work and electrification flashes would have been added.  Quite a few men lost their lives in the 60's on the Peaks climbing above cab level.  I would probably check when the loco was in for a heavy general overhaul and guess that's when plating took place.  Hope this helps.

On 03/05/2019 at 19:45, Max Legroom said:

Page 80 of Seventies Spotting Days Around the Scottish Region (Strathwood) has a picture of 27011 at Queen Street on the 0100 to Oban in 1979. Train is made up of a CCT, CK and ( I think) a BSO. Would make a great train for a smallish layout!

Very few people have mentioned this service, probably one of the least well known in the entire UK!  I do recall it, having travelled once up to Oban.  The train was always 2 coaches, a BG and a BSK.  I honestly don't think BR wanted people to know this ervice ran as it was a mail/parcel service with a few passengers tagging along for the Colonsay ferry in the morning.  Arrival at Oban was often early!!  Well before 4 am... Lots of hanging around in a cold wet Oban harbour.   A very good modelling opportunity.

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I'm certain I saw 56s at Rugby in 1975,

Definately not. 47601 was the test bed loco in the mid 70's.  56's were built later and has been well documented.  The first 20 from Romania and were dreadful quality.  had to go straight into works for remedial. 

Nice to see 47 365 in BR green and I wonder if that was one I saw on a Trans Pennine job at about this time? 

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The only thing I remember was that 40106 was the last 40 in green in 1978.  She became something of a celebrity and I believe kept her green livery and was never repainted blue . Certainly model railways of the period in BR Blue always had a version of 40106 , the only green loco around. 

106 was repainted BR Blue at Crewe until the 'phone rang and someone politely pointed out the error of their ways!  I have, rather sadly, seen a 'photo of said loco in BR blue, followed two days later by BR Green.  quite how they achieved that (wet paint etc) is anybodies guess.  Upon being repainted they forgot (?) to remove the works plate and if you look very, very closely at good hi-def pics you can see the blue surrounding the plate.  For the sake of completeness I've also seem a photo of 106 prior to the works plate being reattached and the area beneath was blue.

I also recall seeing the odd Class 47 in shabby BR Green on Trans Pennine jobs in 1976.  Quite common to see loco classses in the North West still in green.

Am I the only one who thinks its a bit odd that the ETH generator is more powerful than the train engine?

Yes I realise the ETHELs didnt run at full power.

Possibly, although in my photo the Class 20 is merely the station pilot and not the train loco.  That would have been a 37/0.  The ETHEL's were really just a stop gap until BR had a rebuilt and tested a reliable fleet of 37/4.  I did not like the ETHEL's as they ran at about 2/3 power from the moment they were started, and tying them inside the train on the sleeper services was a bad idea for obvious reasons.  I also remember them being tied in behind various steam excursions for a while, needless to say I didn't waste any film on them in service!

Certainly in my time at Coalville as a 2nd man a fully fitted train with a pair(never mind a single) of 20's reqiured a brakevan, so that makes it post April '83 before the rules were changed. I seem to remember the Scunthorpe/Frodingham area being a haunt of the single 20. There was also spells of the services to Matlock being class 20 top and tail(yes it's not really a single) but you could use your imagination or crop the photo!

Not strictley single, but interesting. Loaded MGR trains traveling east out of Coalville were rare so I'm assuming this a diverted Didcot bound service, up through Baron Hill to Bagworth was a bit of roller coaster so I'm guessing 20174 is helping give bit of extra hp and was split from another non airbrake 20. Oct '78 must have been very close to going to Derby for repaint. Linkyhttp://www.nigeltout.com/Railway-Photo-Galleries/Britain/britain.html

314_02_Coalville_19781017_s.jpg

If you look closely the Serck radiators are shut and given the load you would expect both loco's to be rather hot with that load on.  A (not uncommon) class 47 failure perhaps?  The Serck radiators were the achilles heals on the 47's, always needing topped every day otherwise the engine would shut down with a blue light status (overheating). Just a guess

 

47704 in large logo must have been after overhaul. 704 was the first loco released after conversion and was used for all the testing out of Derby, including on the Old Dalby test track and the Birmingham main line. It was in standard small logo blue at that time. I have a feeling (Bob-65b might be able to verify) that 711 and 712 were the first locos delivered in large logo livery.

Yes, very sorry about the confusion gentlemen.  704 was outshopped in BR Blue, silver roof with the (then) new style headlight as shown in this photo (photographer unkown).  I definately remember 704 circa 82/83 fresh out of works, on the depot (Edge Hill) and working to Newcastle, perhaps not conversion but major overhaul.