kirkheath

Been slow to catch up on this. But loving the revised plan. Looks very smooth to operate now

I think the station and goods yard laout works well and is nice.  I think for the design for going into the mill though, what purpose do the two spurs (excluding the mill siding) serve? Is one of them for coal store?

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

It was not at all unusual for main line company/BR engines to be allowed into private sidings or part of of a private siding complex although of necessity tight curvature and various other physical features could limit the types of engine permitted into such places.  For example on the 2 mile long Penarth Harbour freight only branchline in South Wales GWR, and subsequently BR engines were allowed to work into 11 of the 14 private sidings on that branch.  In many cases the railway simply could not be worked in a manner which enabled exchange of traffic with private sidings unless such access was permitted or, as note below, the private sidings engine was authorised to work out onto BR lines.

 

Rather less common, but still far from unusual, was the opposite situation where privately owned engines were permitted to run onto main line company/BR lines in order - usually - to access sidings where traffic was exchanged between the private siding and the main line network.

Ah ok I see, that confuses matters so disregard that then haha. I will use that scenario on my layout though, as I like the idea of the two engines interacting.

Looks like you're getting there and ironing out some issues. I too am trying a similar layout with a station and an industrial "private" business in the background. As I was trying the design phase, I was informed that mainline, and the privately owned locos can't operate on each others' networks. Particularly the heavier mainline engines on the industrial tracks which may have a much lighter loading gauge, and so this lead to a need of exchange sidings being introduced. I am not sure how common this was across the other regions of the network but certainly applies to my design. Which also opens the door to being able to handle passenger workings, general freight, a freight dedicated to the private industry with the need to shunt it into the sidings. And, an industrial engine that handles the in and outbound goods where the mainline engines can pick and drop them off.

On a slight tangent, but seems to work very well looking at your layout design, but to me. The perfect branch terminus of all time for Aesthetics and operational scopes is Ashburton in South Devon,  just so much you can do there. Not sure, how much you may be able to transcribe and incorporate into your ideas, but may help trying to a replicate a prototypical location.

13 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

Thank you

Following this with big interest layout design looks great too. Hours of fun!!

Looking excellent. Love what you’ve done with fencing and crane. Good details!

Ok I think I have something that works, pottery factory with separate sidings and loop so shunter doesn't get stuck. Exchange sidings for things in and out of the pottery site. Goods yard for general goods traffic with road access.

Not fully sure on pottery layout and what could go where, but I think it's workable! Albeit I was thinking that the loop maybe where the finished goods are loaded onto the shocvans, then the other two spurs can either have raw materials with industrial loco shed or separated, but it flows operationally well in my head. 

53 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

The yard would have been laid out when the line was built in the 19th century in the hope of handling just about everything that was produced or consumed locally.  In most areas that would include a lot of domestic coal, but that might have been supplied directly from a nearby colliery in your area and not by rail. Livestock in urban areas would have been inward for local slaughter but that traffic declined rapidly after WW2 so a cattle dock is possible but would probably be out of use. 

 

Small high value items would travel as parcels and be handled on the passenger platform and this traffic continued well after steam.  Most would be carried in the guards van of a passenger train but if there was enough traffic an additional van might be attached to some trains or even a short dedicated parcels train run - still handled in the passenger platform.

 

Yeah indeed Stoke-on-Trent was littered with collieries, so was thinking that’d be catered for already, but because of the kilns only the pottery factory would need open coke wagons due to the amount. And exactly my thoughts on the livestock, so most local goods not serving the factory would be short and only a handful of varied items. I had originally considered adding a CCT to the urban passenger train if it can navigate a 1R curve.  Fresh fish may also be worked into he scene 

Yeah that’s true I’ll have to look again. I did consider the bay to handle goods with a fence halfway across the platform to segregate the goods and passenger traffic. I thought general goods serving the suburb would

mostly be fresh perishable goods like fruit and veg, little amount of livestock and parcels mainly. 

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Maybe, but I'm not sure you have the room - you need to fit in the railway's goods yard between the platform and the exchange sidings.

Ah, I was thinking that the bay platform was sufficient for that. Or is it more the case the ground space for road vehicles?

Thank you for that! Yes I had read what they added and was trying to think best way to incorporate it. I think a simplistic approach as you sketched, is probably the best method. Maybe two roads for exchange sidings, one for the wagons coming in, and one for the loaded vans with the finished goods. That works well for the works at the back too. Now it just begs the question how do I layout the factory, do I separate the kilns and finished goods at another end, or try lump them all together in one area

Or maybe the idea of a single road with a loop to act as a reversing siding. Have 2 or 3 curved sidings on the left. And have the branch to pottery factory back right maybe? 

Progress so far, not sure if this is any better, that single spur going to the left would be the branch to the factory. Maybe trying to cram a lot into the small space there, perhaps I will try another version where the sidings are to the left of the station. 

Not sure if I need all those sidings and that loop. If I did it the way was suggested having an “exchange siding” and LMS engine doing the shunting into the sidings then industrial takes wagons to and from pottery site. 

I may may be able to do it so goods is routed to platform, engine runs around dumps brakevan into the headshunt of passenger loop. Then it’s a case of the engine couples to freight again, moves back and propels wagons into a siding or two if they need to be split. Picks up shocvans and pulls them back move forward and recouple brakevan, passenger train arrives. Goods is then clear to leave. Then industrial can take wagons.

There could be a point whereas, the LMS engine backs to the spur by platform ramp. Then industrial can bring loaded vans into sidings and take away the wagons. Just trying get the right design to handle the drop off haha. 

Indeed it is Sir! Some assistance maybe required for sure. 

Cheers,

I’m in Audley (by Alsager) but do commute to cheddleton as a volunteer there

I’m quite late to the layout party. Wanted one for near on 10years now probably. Now I have my own place I think it’s time haha. Advantage now for sure is the technology you can use to help plan and learn things. 

But, I’ve definitely learned that books with archive photos are still a primary resource. Glad I managed to get those books of Stoke in the LMS days. 

This is all new to me in honesty. But after watching a couple of videos, the plastic was causing an issue with locos that have less contact points. Which can cause suttering and the sound to mess up with engines. After that, I was indeed thinking electrofrogs. Especially if I decide to be lazy have minimal contact with the layout and use contact points

It’s nice that this is getting more reception than I anticipated. Yes, she’s a nice engine and will be nice to see her steaming. More than likely after the 8F and class 20 are finished. 

Funnily enough I was thinking about that to get a view into the layout and how best to adapt the layout design to be more useable or realistic.  And local history and dialect is indeed sometimes comical! 

Wow this is certainly the place to learn things!! And to give more options and great to get other insights on best way to operate the layout.  Thank you guys! Regarding the shunting engine I have been looking at Hattons 040 Bagnall, as we have one in the restoration queue at Cheddleton - Katie, which funnily enough, is one of the options. 

I see what you're saying about the mileage siding now John, what you think could I incorporate that into the Bay platform if it was both sides of the bay spur with a loading ramp? Maybe move the MPD for a little access road. 

Thanks too David, this will give me a lot more to think about. Maybe I can swap them around with John’s suggestions and also adapt yours as well. I was thinking Id need another loop somewhere in the sidings. Maybe a 3 way junction to link them all up at the top end and a small headshunt. I’d love to have a 5MT or 8F if they’ll get round the 1R curve. Why I thought a stanier mogul or ivatt 2 be a perfect stand in. 

Ive also managed to acquire a couple of books of steam around the potteries area too. So this will be great to get a feeling of the local area and research. 

Thank you John, that's a very good insight, and also adds more realism to it further, with the politics of Sub contracting etc. 

Are you considering the goods yard being the three sidings that head to the right back corner of the layout? If so, would you possibly have the goods yard either straight, and move the MPD to where the coal heap is?  Then use a single straight track where the MPD currently is, as a means to reverse the wagons into the needed sidings. Then all the Pottery sidings can be in the top right corner as you suggested.

I kinda realised that pottery traffic would indeed be covered open clay wagons as you said and also open wagons from nearby colliers, which luckily enough I have found a website that are branded as various colleries around Stoke, which will add a nice touch of locality.

Can you explain a little further how the transition of wagons between private to the LMS metals would occur? So would the industrial shunter, be allowed to traverse from the sidings to the goods yard, and leave/collect wagons from there back into the factory grounds, or do I need an extra "exchange" siding as such? With that, does that also possibly mean, I would need a little shed solely for the shunter? Also, can I just ask what is the purpose of a mileage siding?

A good point about the signal box and shall take that into account. Regarding traction, given the area, I was thinking mainly for locos to be older pre grouping engines, with a couple of "new" engines.

As such

I have been looking at; L&Y Class 5 2-4-2T, LNWR coal tank, MR 1F,3F,4F, Ivatt 2, Fairburn tank, possibly either a Crab or a Stanier mogul. 

Many thanks,

Hello guys,

Been scratching my head on best way to approach this and came up with an initial design with help from a friend. I'd like it to be kind of an all in one - not external fiddle yard (The track behind the black dashed line).  I may help ease of operation with outer track of the fiddle yard being a cassette piece. I have a single baseboard  available of 8x3 Feet. I was thinking that the layout would be sub level, the approach to the fiddle yard may either be a tunnel, or narrow cutting with retaining walls similar to the attached photo (can't think of the correct term). Basically the layout will have a terminus station with goods unloading platform and a goods yard with sidings. I'm also thinking DCC control to help with the operations mentioned below. The buildings may vary it was just a very rough placer to get an idea of the geography of the layout.

So to give a bit of a scenario.

The aim of a layout is to portray a theme of a very busy urban suburb of a town/city based around the potteries area in Staffordshire in the 40's-60's era.

As such, I've tried to cater the needs in the layout

- Sidings on the left are for raw materials, so a coal heap for the kilns, and a siding with storehouse for the clay required for making pottery.

- The kilns and warehouses are the buildings clumped by the coal heap

- A factory with loading platforms that finished goods can be exported by rail serve the siding towards the rear of the layout on the right hand side. Also a couple of holding sidings to aid in train marshalling, and to contain either wagons that are empty or full.

- The station would be a terminus with steps going upto road level at the end, and the idea is to serve it as both passenger and freight. I am not sure whether to have a fence half of the width platform to segregate passengers from goods operations within the station, with possibility of a gate to allow access for a 1st gen DMU, in peak seasons.

Operating;

- Passenger trains would be of medium size for workers and commuters maybe 3-4 coaches non corridor stock with possibility of adding a CCT for parcels or luggage. Most likely to be worked by a tank of an Ivatt 2 size or maybe a 2-6-4T at most Stanier mogul (given that these engines can negotiate a 1st radius track. and chance of DMU when in busy months.

- For freight traffic, I'm thinking I'd like two separate consists. One that may be a short mixed goods to serve the town and a longer one that would meet the needs of the pottery factory. I'm not fully sure how I would handle these operationally. In my head, I like the idea of the freight trains arriving, but having the requirement of an industrial engine to act as station pilot/shunter to move the consist which would then relieve the engine off the freight, to then allow it to move to the MPD for servicing/waiting between duties. Any advice on this?

I was thinking that maybe the short mixed goods would simply be routed to the passenger loop, run the brakevan around the train and store it into the headshunt on the passenger loop line, run back round and shuttle the mixed goods into the bay platform for unloading (without need for shunter). Possibly have some empty wagons in the holding sidings or the headshunt in the goods yard to head back out.

For the second freight, it's purpose is primarily serve the pottery factory, this may typically be longer and mainly consist of open wagons for the raw materials needed in the factory. What would be best for this kind?

Do I again route this train to passenger loop and have the shunter to then shunt it to the sidings required, or route the goods to either the bay, or sidings at the top and then shunt. 

EDIT: I think as typing this I realised I need a loop somewhere in the goods yard, to allow the industrial engine to be able to transfer wagons between the coal sidings to the main holding sidings. Also, ignore the "SL-E" track pieces, it will be flat