1165Valour

Given Huddersfield would be relatively close to Gorton, you might see some more experimental types, with the works not too far away - the Robinson Compound Atlantics (LNER C5), for example. 

From the 1920s until the end of steam, the various iterations of LMS and BR 2-6-4Ts were frequently used as bankers up Shap summit. The BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0s would also be allocated to Shap - was there any particular reason they were used for this work?

In the comment section of a YouTube video on D0280 Falcon, a former BR employee stationed at Ebbw described seeing the engine, and mentioned that the engine spent more time under repair than working. The implication seems to be that this was due to the difficulty of obtaining spares for the one-off engine, rather than it being a poor design. 

That leads me to wonder: compared with the other Type 4 locomotives, how did Falcon compare?

On 10/01/2024 at 14:02, Poggy1165 said:

I believe I am right in saying that the Immingham engines were green for only a very short time - indeed having one in green would fix your layout period exactly.

 

Confusingly, the very similar 8C pair (B1) were always green.

 

There is no rhyme or reason to GCR loco liveries. At least one 9N (A5) was in lined black in GC days! They were never goods engines by any definition. And the variations in green livery are legion. A study of photos shows the little 2-4-0T Sacre engines in two distinct variations. 

The Staveley Basher linked in your signature seems to be wearing GC unlined black, like many GC goods and shunting locos...yet the 9J Pom-Poms received lined black, to the best of my knowledge, so I assume the GC considered them mixed traffic engines, which they were.

Of course, you can always make up a load of companies for PO wagons if you must.

Thank you, this is quite helpful.

@Nearholmer, do you still have some of the images for this thread (especially the maps) that were lost in the great image purge?

Looking at my junctions with foreign roads:

Manchester London Road: LNWR

Ardwick: L&Y

Ashburys: MR

Guide Bridge: LNWR

Stalybridge: L&Y (I don't think there would be much need for the LNWR line to Stalybridge to be built here)

Huddersfield: L&Y, MR

Heaton Lodge to Dewsbury Junction: use L&Y main line

Dewsbury: possible junction with MR West Riding lines?

Batley: GNR

Holbeck: GNR (Holbeck station may include the line to Huddersfield here)

Leeds: GNR, NER, probably somewhat less traffic from MR and L&Y

11 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Can I ask the OP, why is your user name @GWRSwindon when your focus has always been the GCR?

 

I made this account several years ago, when I was still a GWR fanboy, and I'm now unable to change it.

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I do think the poster should be encouraged to seek out previous topics on this subject on the forum rather than starting a new topic. With a little bit of effort, there is plenty of information already available.

I apologize, I wanted to get information related to this specific question, and saw no harm in creating a new topic.

I'm continuing to plan my c. 1907 GCR what-if West Yorkshire line, and I'm wondering: what proportion of my rolling stock should be "native" - that is, Great Central - and how much should be "foreign" - everything else? 

Obviously, this will all depend on location, type of traffic, and time period, but I'd be interested in finding out some general guidelines.

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

http://www.gcrsociety.co.uk/

 

I'm no expert but I suppose those 4-6-0s intended for passenger work were green, and those for goods engines, black. These seems to be confirmed by a quick Google image search on "great central railway 4-6-0" which turns up both period photos and photos of, one supposes, correctly-painted models, as well as some less informative works grey official photos.

An interesting case is the 8F (B4) class, as I've seen models in both green and black.

https://gladiatormodels.com/product/lner-b4-gcr-8f-immingham-4-6-0/

I'm trying to figure out liveries on the Great Central, and while some are fairly easy to figure out, I would love to get confirmation on some classes, especially the 4-6-0s. Which GCR 4-6-0s carried the green livery in GC days, and which carried the black?

For reference, here are the gradient profiles for the Talyllyn and Corris Railways. Did they have trouble with trains sticking on some of these flatter portions?

Famously, the Ffestiniog Railway used gravity working on their slate trains, as did the Corris and Penrhyn railways. However, what was the minimum gradient necessary to keep a slate train of the average length and weight rolling?

Does anyone know of any Class 52 'Westerns' that were scrapped, despite efforts or plans to preserve them?

18 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Lovely!

Better still, modelling in 2mm allows one to fit more railway in the same amount of space.

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

If you like building models, the lack of RTR for your chosen period is an advantage, rather than a problem.

 

I see little point in building models of locos that are covered, often very well indeed, by RTR manufacturers.

 

So choosing a date that isn't well covered by the RTR firms is a good way to go as far as I am concerned. 

It can also be helpful for modelling in scales such as EM, P4, or 2mm.

On 20/10/2023 at 10:33, 62613 said:

Remember that in any case, the MS&L had a line from Guide Bridge to Stalybridge. Stalybridge Station was "Joint" between the them and the LNWR. Both companies shared the rebuilding costs in the 1880s when the Micklehurst loop was built. The LNWR trains from Manchester ran to there courtesy of the LYR branch from Miles Platting. They also ran from Stockport. At one time, the MS&L were going to build a line further up the Tame Valley from Stalybridge, I don't know what stopped them. Exchange yard at Diggle, anyone?😁

Of course, if the Huddersfield & Manchester Railway (& Canal Company!) had gone to the MS&L along with the Leeds, Dewsbury & Manchester, there would have been little real need for the line from Guide Bridge to Stalybridge. I suspect you may see the MS&L and LNWR collaborating on trains to Huddersfield and Leeds. Historically, their relationship soured in the 1850s and tended to stay that way, so perhaps the LNWR will attempt their own line to Leeds in a fit of pique. Alternatively, they may be sensible and work with the MS&L/GC on Leeds traffic.

The GNR would be interesting. The MS&L could be a helpful ally in the West Riding, and the lines around Bradford, Queensbury, and Halifax may be joint MS&L/GN, much as the West Riding & Grimsby was historically. Of course, once the GCR builds the London Extension, they'll surely want to start running Bradford-Marylebone and Leeds-Marylebone trains, competing with the GNR trains to King's Cross.

On 12/08/2018 at 18:10, Killian keane said:

We might as well have a photo if our man, the late I W Boulton, here standing next to the earthly remains of Python no. 1

Hi Killian, do you still have this image somewhere? I've been looking for photos of Python for ages.

21 hours ago, AMJ said:

Knowing the the GCR and GNR also ran a joint line in West Yorkshire I think that you could feasibly run GNR stock in your world  All the northern based companies are so interlinked on both sides of the Pennines that nearly anything could be run on these services.  

 

Often looking at the photos of private owner wagons can be interesting in determining things like that as they often are empty to ... full to... and each as a registration plate for the company tracks that it can run over.

 

The LNWR proposed to extend their Birstall branch to Bradford in the 1860s, but the GNR's proposal via Adwalton won out. As the MS&LR/GCR will probably still enjoy good relations with the GNR, perhaps the GNR's West Riding lines are constructed as a joint GNR/GCR concern here? 

Liverpool to Leeds trains could use the Stockport, Timperley & Altrincham Junction Railway, possibly with a connecting line to Stalybridge. 

12 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

It's your alt history. If you decide that the LNWR reasoned that cooperation was necessary and that more than limited interchange at Guide Bridge etc was needed, then why not? Alternatively assume that in a fit of pique they built some sort of expanded Spen Valley line scheme and had a competing route throughout!

 

Simon

True, though following Peter Denny and others, I would prefer that my alternate history not be too implausible.

It would be nice to include fish trains from Grimsby bound for Leeds or Huddersfield. The West Riding & Grimsby Joint would be the fastest route to Leeds, but maybe some could use the Huddersfield & Sheffield Junction. The H&SJ will be even busier than they were historically, as it would likely be the route that trains would use from the West Riding to Marylebone. 

Would the GCR and LNWR cooperate on running trains? I wouldn't mind having the LNWR appear at Guide Bridge.

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I liked the big, warm, quiet, comfortable cab and the superb ride, but they were a waste of time in other respects.  Their use on the WR as replacements for the pocket-rocket Hymeks (anyone who has watched a 'mek dig in and lift 900tons plus up the precipitous climb out of Aberthaw Cement Works will have enormous respect for the design) was never going to make them friends; it was basically replacing a good type 3 with an indifferent type 2.  The Hymeks were scrapped because of a policy decision, but had little future anyway as air brake equipment could not be fitted to them; it was my view that there was enough vacuum work to keep them on for another five years, but my view didn't count.

What was the reason air braking couldn't be fitted to the Hymeks? 

I've also read that D1200 Falcon could not be dual-fitted.

How often were the Hymeks used on heavy (over 10 coach) express passenger trains, and how well did they perform?