JRamsden

OK, so an update... sorry for the slow reply, I haven't had as much time to return to the layout as I would have liked recently. I had a stab at creating the trap points which were so kindly described by contributors to this thread. I used a couple of old points and stole the fine switch blades as they had a nice profile without the need for much modification. The single trap used a more standard piece of track, filed to an angle. The effect isn't as good as the double trap, but looks good enough for my liking. All rails were soldered and cosmetic sleeper extensions were added later, cut from a spare piece of Peco flexitrack. Now I turn my attention back to the point rodding. I have attempted a plan based on the information I have: My understanding is that the amount of push and pull should be equal in a single rodding run. But what about the runs that go to the right of the signal box? They are very short, only around 35 to 40 feet from the 'box. Then again, the RH point switch also has a trap joined to the same rod which, presumably, extends the whole run? I put a compensator in the longest run but not sure if it's in the right place? Any advice on improving this setup would be greatly appreciated! All the best, Jonathan

This is really useful information, thanks! ...and from a modelling point of view, this is also massively useful. Thanks!

Potentially silly question... I understand most signals are placed on the left side of the track. Does this rule always follow for ground signals too? I assume there's an exception somewhere, as usual! Also, for points that are hand operated. Would these be a simple lever that could be operated whenever, or a ground frame connected to the 'box in some way?

Hey folks, thanks for all your thoughts on this. It makes for interesting reading :) I should mention that some of these items are already applied to the board and the space is even more limited than the plan suggests. The starter is already in place and there's just no space to bring it forward as it's one of those motorised ones that requires space above and below the board. Was this ever an issue in real life? Would there have been an inventive solution to accommodate for when a signal could not be placed exactly where it needed to be? Beyond the starter's current position, there's a scale 50ft before it meets the edge of the scenic section and heads into the fiddle yard. I often use Hawkhurst station as a reference point as it was the original terminus of the line I'm modelling. It's design is not too different to my own, albeit with slightly more sidings and a bay platform. I never paid much attention before, but photos clearly show trap points in the loop and the signalling diagram shows them too. Ground signals are present also, based apparently on an SECR design and seem to be common along the line. Picture below from Wizard Models Ltd, not my own sketch! Additionally, from what I can see, the 14 lever signal box operates every set of points on the diagram. But hand operated points means less rodding, so I'm more than happy to go with that! Weighing up the options, it seems that trap points were used in a similar fashion to those described here and I'll probably attempt to replicate them on my layout. Space is definitely confined and mine is certainly a much-condensed approximation of the sort of stations that existed. I guess my next question would be a follow-up on ground signals. Where would they need to be placed? On the Hawkhurst diagram there is one leaving the head shunt (presumably for the loop?) Another from the loop onto the main line (RH end). Would there need to be any signals into or out of the sidings or engine shed? Thanks as always, Jonathan :)

Many thanks for the link and great photo. Nice to know I'm on the right track now... so to speak. That is definitely a nice clear shot and should help me get the look right :)

Yes, it will be mostly steam era; Southern into BR. I did a lot of umming and ahhing over this plan, I must say! The space is very small and there were many things I wanted - a goods shed was on the plan for a while - but in the end I reached a compromise. Much of what is featured is only here because I was using the Hawkhurst Branch as a template. Hawkhurst station itself had more infrastructure than you'd expect (including a two-road engine shed!) purely because they intended to extend in the future. The cattle dock was a last minute addition purely because I acquired some lovely SR cattle wagons and wanted an excuse to run them! :D There are things I'd do differently if I started again (I've already done that once...) but all the buildings arebuilt and the track laid, so I don't plan to make major changes again at this stage. Incidentally, I have come across a photo of what @RailWest has been describing. I've seen it called a "Tandem trap" and the Strathspey Railway's signalling blog has a great set of photos showing the exact setup of such a trap. I couldn't be luckier to have such clear reference material! The blog has several entries which show the pointwork, mostly in May and June for anyone who might be interested: https://signallingstrathspey.blogspot.com/2020/05/morley-project.html

Oops, that photo was an accident. I was going to use it to show how cramped the space is, but seems it was useful anyway. Thanks so much for your help and perseverance. That is much clearer to my brain! This seems like a really specific piece of trackwork. You wouldn't happen to know where I can see a photo of the real thing or anything similar, would you? Jonathan

Thanks for all your help folks :) 1) I had no idea this was a thing! This may be useful knowledge given how little space I have. 2) I didn't consider this. I may be able to modify the signal I have to feature a non operational shunting arm, perhaps? 3) I'm basically copying the setup that was at the real-life terminus, Hawkhurst. I assume they only had a 'box because they were planning on continuing the line later, something that never happened in real life. But it's built and in place now, so I'd rather keep it :) 1) Good to know, thank you for educating me! :) OK, I'm learning about trap points! I hope I have interpreted your instructions correctly; I have revised the plan and include it below. So one trap to protect against anything in the loop, and another against anything in the ES line? I may have to get creative in terms of creating these trap points.

Many thanks folks @RailWest, @Michael Hodgson & @TheSignalEngineer Already this is a great help :) I have started my own thread, as suggested.

I have reached the stage of my layout where I'm thinking about signalling and associated infrastructure. But I have to admit it boggles my mind somewhat! I'm attempting to go for as much realism as possible but have to admit I stop somewhere before "rivet-counter" level :D I tentatively put out feelers the other day and got some great feedback very quickly, but soon realised I may have missed a few earlier steps e.g. trap points! Addleford Green is a branch terminus in Kent. It is a fictional 'what-if' scenario where the Hawkhurst branch extended to an equally fictitious town. The setting is around the Southern era, possibly extending into BR Southern Region when it takes my fancy. I assume the extension was built somewhere in the early 1900s. Close to the station is the Addleford Creamery which enjoys its own siding for rail-borne milk tankers. The adjacent siding features a cattle dock and loading crane for miscellaneous goods. There is a single track engine shed nearby. I hope to operate both passenger and freight, with some shunting while a passenger train is in the platform. The plan below shows my current (revised) thinking in terms of point operation from the 'box. I understand that only the loop points actually need operation from the 'box and only the right-hand point requires a facing point lock. All other points are hand-operated? Two trap points should be in the loop, but I have to confess I never gave these any thought before now. I'm reluctant to relay track at this stage and wonder if anyone has had any success creating the look of trap points without using something off the shelf? Could the point to the engine shed siding be used as a trap point? I'd also love some feedback on my current point rodding route. It seems a little convoluted in places because the track layout is quite cramped and leaves little space for the mechanisms required to operate the point work. In particular is the point at the centre of the loop which serves the two sidings. Where would the operating lever be placed for this point? I assume it cannot be between the main and loop lines. Can it be situated across the engine shed siding? All feedback is appreciated! Many thanks in advance :)

I hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread for another point rodding question of my own? I've been reading the thread with great interest as I am about to embark on my own point rodding journey and want to get it as accurate as possible. My layout is a very small branch terminus (trains enter from the right and the left is a very short head shunt) and I'm using the Wills point rodding kit. To be honest, the whole thing blows my mind a little, but I really want to add this level of detail. Below is a diagram of my current thinking. The concrete area centre bottom of the photo is the site of an engine shed. My main questions are: 1) Would the suggested path taken by the rods make sense/be permitted on the prototype? I see the most direct route would be to take most of the rods along the platform edge, but there's very little clearance for what would be 6 rods. What would happen in real life if the only viable route was very narrow? 2) 4 points are served by rodding (the last will be a lever frame as it belongs to a private siding) but do the remaining 4 points all need facing point locks? 3) Am I interpreting compensators correctly, or should there be more? 4) If anyone is feeling particularly kind... where would I need to add ground signals? Thanks! Jonathan

I'm something of an Oxford Diecast collector at this stage(!) and I've been meaning to try out some weathering on them. I'll definitely be following your process to see how it turns out for me. Thanks for all the useful tips Weathering is something I'm a little terrified of, truth be told. Seeing the process here with a logic to each step has really helped make it seem much more approachable. I must say, just giving the whole thing a spray of Dullcote really does make a huge difference. That hyper-shiny look these models have is one of their biggest drawbacks IMO. It's great that they're so easily customised though, so I'm not complaining too much!

The cattle dock build continues... A concrete 'apron' was created out of some mount card painted a concrete kind of colour. This was then simply stuck to the outside edge of the track, sloping slightly away to allow for drainage. Care was taken to ensure it didn't foul any wheels and that it sat just below rail height so the rail heads could still be cleaned. Constant testing with a spare wagon is essential. A buffer stop was made out of some coffee stirrers painted white and red, then weathered slightly with a dirty acrylic wash. The concreate apron was also weathered in the same way but the camera hasn't really picked it up. With all posts and rails added and secured, I took the final leap of faith and glued the whole assembly in place. A final piece of plastikard was cut to finish off the landing area of the dock. This will be painted and weathered in time, much of the area behind the buffer stop will likely be bushes and weeds. Water troughs were added. These came from the Langley Models range and just required painting. I added a thin layer of realistic water too. I may top this up in future; the poor animals haven't got a lot to drink! Finally, two SR cattle wagons were offered up and (thankfully) they still lined up perfectly with the gates, phew. Looks like it's good to go! All for now, Jonathan

Thanks Mikkel I have been very impressed with the Treemedus powder; it produces a very convincing effect. I had mostly chosen to use it on the farm area where I figured the ground would be a little more on the uneven/loose side. I agree about your comment regarding the camera; when I saw that very bottom close-up photo I thought it looked quite convincing. However I'm more likely to spend time viewing it from a distance, so it's hard to say which way to go! I haven't tried pigments and also mean to look into weathering powders too. Perhaps they could have worked well here.

From my research it seems that a great deal of rural lines (perhaps some major ones too) would not have used proper ballast for sidings and smaller lines. Instead the substrate would be ash or just compacted earth, probably mixed with whatever was cheap and easily to hand. I really wanted to achieve this effect on Addleford Green and have been thinking about how I would do it for a long time. Images of Hawkhurst's yard show that a lot of the sidings, particularly around the goods shed, were surrounded (almost buried in some cases!) in compacted earth. I decided to start by covering the existing ballast with a thin layer of Das Clay. I love this stuff! It's so easy to work with and doesn't stick to everything quite as badly as plaster or filler. I started around the engine shed area, pushing small amounts of clay onto the board which had been treated with a thin layer of ordinary PVA. The aim was to just cover the sleepers and also to blend in the piece of card I had placed previously as the engine shed interior. Happy with how this looked, I moved onto the sidings and carried out the same process. Das Clay dries reasonably quickly but remains workable for some time too. I found it useful to wet pieces of the clay in a pot of water, making them much easier to smooth down with a finger. Having ballast already laid made the clay go much further as it only had to coat the top. In my infinite wisdom I decided that the surface of this "compacted" earth would have some texture. So I sprinkled on some sand with a mind to paint the whole thing once it had dried. This would be my undoing! I popped along to B&Q and selected a few match posts of emulsion paint which looked like close facsimiles of dull earth tones. I picked out some darker colours for the engine yard and some greys for the road. Then I gave the whole thing a coat of each of the colours, starting with the darkest for each. Doesn't look too bad, huh? Maybe a little dark on the earth colour, but that would soon be solved with another coat of a lighter brown dry brushed over the top. Good heavens! That didn't work quite as I had planned. There were several issues: 1. The sand made dry brushing with emulsion paint quite difficult and didn't produce the effect I expected. 2. The second brown wasn't just a lighter version of the first, it was a completely different shade entirely and the two didn't look natural together. The road had fared better but now looked almost white. 3. The overall texture didn't look right at all, for the road or the sidings. Scenic modelling guru Chris Nevard once said (and probably more often than that!) that modellers often concern themselves too much with texture when it's actually colour that really aids the look of realism. This project proves that theory. In fact, every time I've aimed to add some kind of texture to anything, it's always looked massively wrong somehow. What to do now? I had two options: 1. Apply more Das Clay to eradicate the texture. 2. Apply some finely sieved earth powder over the top. As my poor points had already endured clay, glue and paint, I felt even more clay and paint could spell disaster. So I went with option 2. Treemendus earth powder, finely sieved and sprinkled over dilute PVA. Removal from the rail heads and areas where wheel flanges passed through was essential. It looks better when dry! I put some of the buildings in place to see what the overall effect would be and I was pleased enough. The texture was better, although I think this was a case of it not needing to be simulated at all. The earth powder gave a pleasing earth colour and there was some natural variation which I'd have struggled to achieve with paints. In my usual backwards fashion, I attempted a test piece of track after I had made my blunder! Half Das Clay and half earth powder, it showed that the Das Clay alone actually provided a nice enough looking random earth appearance and that the colour was in fact key. The colour I used has not shown up well on the photos below; it's a closer match than the pots I originally bought but much too pale. The earth powder received a coat of matt sealer which definitely affects the colour and makes it darker. I didn't repeat this step on the actual layout. Next time I want this effect I will likely use only Das Clay and be more careful to mix up a more convincing earth colour, as I feel this will go a long way to solving the issue. I suspect that once buildings, weeds and details are added, much of the effect will be hidden anyway! All for now, Jonathan