Matti

Thank you all  this conversation is fascinating! 
 

it all sounds a bit like algebra to me for the first time -but I’m sure after tinkering and having fun, I’ll get a gist for it. 
 

I guess this is what many people spent many hard hours studying - in order to work it in real life. 
 

I’m just very eager to have a playful, colourful and vibrant layout as real as plausible - and all this is invaluable  

14 hours ago, Dave-5-5-7 said:

you can effectively disregard the 03xx numbers. They're track circuits and whilst they help the signalman know where the train is, they mean little to a driver. 

942, 944 and 946 are platform signals. Main 3 aspect signals which show Red, Yellow or Green, in this design of panel, the signalman only sees if the signal is showing stop or proceed, not the full aspect. The white one below it is a position light, a bit like a ground position light (the official term for a colourlight shunt signal) but shows no red. When a move is cleared into either the depot or the down siding, it will show white with a red aspect indicating, as Railwest says, that the route is set, but the line may not be clear to the next signal. 

LOS is as mentioned, a Limit of Shunt Board. In modern terms it is a Ground position light fixed at danger. Older times would have seen an illuminated sign stating "Limit of Shunt" and it is as far as the train can go on that line when shunting on the Up.. On the down it doesn't need one as 940 signal protects the line. 
37 and 39 are shunt signals (ground position lights) but the box with the 4 in it indicates it has a route indicator to tell the driver where they are going. In my case it will show a 1, 2 or 3 for platforms 1,2 and 3 and an S for the siding. 38 is the GPL for shunting out of the siding to the up, down, siding or depot, it's likely to receive a route indicator showing U, M, S and D respectively. 942, 944 and 946 don't have a route indicator because the main aspects only signal to the Down Main. The Position lights should have one, but it's not easily done. 

 

 

Wow, blown away by the detail I love it! Thank you for the help. If I could pinch your knowledge for my layout that would be awesome haha!

The LOS makes a lot of sense now. So this is a ground signal, fixed at danger, that main-line trains will ignore, but a shunter must abide by and never pass (otherwise he/she risks going out onto a piece of track not suitable I'm guessing! That would explain if my understanding is right, the fixed ground signals often found on stations I've been too just outside the station (several hundred yards).

I think im going to incorporate the LOS thinking into my layout. it's super nice. 

Thank you again, going to take lots of learnings from your initial layout here! 

Would love to get any feedback on my proposed customised advert for the Scalemodel scenery kit

Which backing texture should I go with, Cork or ripped paper?

(I have permission from the brand to use this).

Here's a graphical mock-up. I'll add a ladder and maybe (if anyone knows where?) a 3D printed bucket if I can find one haha!

Hi Everyone,

Thought I would update you all! 7 days ago (just before lock-down!!) I sent my PA2 off to Gaugemaster, explaining the problem I was facing. Firstly, their email responses are near-instant. The minute I send the team an email - they are back within 10-15-20 mins. It's incredible.

They, very rightly, mentioned a week ago, that it might take a couple of weeks to inspect before a resolution could be provided. I was more than ok with that - it gave me time to work on scenery. 

That being said, 7 days later, I received a parcel with what appeared to be a brand new base unit inside. With a note that simply said 'Base Unit Replaced'. It was shipped VERY professionally and carefully.

I instantly emailed the Gauagemaster team 'How much do I owe you??' to which they replied to say that it was covered as part of their service. I've traditionally kept my controller and base unit in top condition (haven't even removed screen covers). So it was really nice to see that Gaugemaster acknowledged this and sent me back kit, that was either brand new or gave that impression.

I cannot thank the team enough, what with everything happening in the world, I really did not expect to be top priority. However they have made me a very happy modeller by supporting me in this way.

If there are any Gaugemaster teams on this forums - thank you.

On 25/03/2020 at 22:39, Dave-5-5-7 said:

As previously mentioned,  the points within the yard wouldn't normally be worked by the signal box so would not be signalled by it. hand levers for the ground crew and hand signals would be the norm. Here is a section of my layout signal box diagram. 
It shows where the line from my depot works to the mainline, signal 37 protects the mainline. As you can see the lines within the depot do not show the actual layout of the depot nor any point numbers or signals. All the signalman at the signal box is interested in is things coming off and going onto the depot.  Coming onto the depot, each line that a train can be signalled from, into the depot, has a shunt signal.  So 942/944/946 are all main aspect signals (platform to down main) with position light shunt signals below them (for platforms to depot or platform to down siding), 38 is a ground position light mounted on the floor as all movements out are shunt moves. 

Hey,

Thank you for the detailed response and sharing of your track plans. What a great section of track, I love the complexity yet flexibility that trains can manouver all over the shop. Nice!

In your layout, what are 39, 37 and L.O.S signalling? On 942,944,946 - the shunt signals are currently depicted white - is that coincidence/just to help you plan? What colouring red or white, would they be if they were signalling a train into the depot?

and am I reading it right that 38 is signalling for 0308 and 0310. is 38 giving a train permission to exit the the pieces of track, technically onto he main-line to perform whatever operation needed?

Evening!
 

I ordered some small LEDs, for a 12v power supply in red yellow green, pre wired with an appropriate resistor. 

I’m just a bit concerned because I plugged them in to my 12v DC supply via some wago clips, they light up beautiful (a little too bright maybe). But I noticed the resistors were very hot to touch they almost stung my finger tips a bit. 

I’m worried because these will be in card based buildings and the heat was of concern. I have other LEDs which resistors do not get this hot, is everything ok? Is that normal?

3 hours ago, RailWest said:

In simple terms....

 

1. There needs to be a trap point in the exit from the sidings onto the main line.

2. You would need one shunt signal reading into the sidings and one at the trap reading out.

 

That's all.

 

For a more comprehensive answer, it would be useful to know about (a) the signalling on the main line and (b) the layout of the sidings and what they are used for.

 

Thank you for the reply.

So some context;

The first siding to the left, the bottom half is a maintenance shed and the above half is a piece of track ending in a buffer. The aim is to store wagons / freight in. The second red line from the left, is a second siding where a loco can be stored along with freight also.

Mainline signalling: still TBC I'm working on that with my stations and wether lines are bi-direction or not.

With regard to the shunt signals, how comes you wouldn't necessarily out one over the two sidings to stop a train progressing over a point that's not set for the right direction/could cause a derail? Is it because the yard staff assume that they move things knowing the direction of points?

11 hours ago, jpendle said:

Hi

 

Is it possible that the Prodigy is stuck in program mode?

On my Z21 system there is no output on the main when I am using the programming track output.

 

Regards,

 

John P

On the Prodigy, you can run both main track and program track at the same time usually no problems. The way the program track on it works is; the track is dead unless a command is being written to a decoder. So what you find is, the moment you activate a 'read' or 'write' command on program, then it gives it the juice.

8 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Its possible from the voltage appearing to be halved and DC being indicated by the tester and the buffer stop LEDs that the circuitry in the DCC command station may only be sending out one 'half' of the DCC signal.

 

There is normally there is a transistor bridge circuit that drives the voltage alternately one way (one half) and then the other at a rate of a few kilohertz.

 

It could be the circuit is only driving one way. Normally two signals (PCB tracks) come from the digital controller to the transistor bridge circuit.

 

Possible causes include transistor failure or an interconnection failure. As it appeared to happen overnight I'd guess its an interconnection failure, inside the DCC command station. If its out of warranty and the mains supply is separate try giving it a firm shake and see what happens (only have it connected to a short piece of track and your DCC tester - keep an eye on the colour of the LED on the tester to see if it changes).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Nothing appeared loose on the inside, I didn't shake it aggressively but it turned the unit upside down, left to right. I think he main track has just gone kaput

4 hours ago, Brian said:

I would if testing myself do the following....First power down PA and pull out the rear green connector. Power back up and see if the handset comes to life?  If it does then try the following.... Power down. Remove all wires from the green plug and connect a temporary pair of test wires to the Track pair of terminals on the green plug. Push green plug back in. Connect this TRACK output pair of wires to a piece of totally separate testing track that is not connected to anything else and then power up the PA.  Does it come to life?  If yes, then power down and place a known working loco on the test track, power up again and check all is still working and try to set locos address and test it forward and back. If ok assume PA is working.  Power down and move track wires to the Programming terminals and power back up. Using the loco from before try to read its address - CV1 If the address appears, try altering it to something else. If it works restore the address back to that of before and consider the PA to be working 100%.   

If any of these fail on a totally separate piece of track or when the green plug is completely removed, then and only then consider the PA to be defective.  

Assuming its a Gaugemaster branded PA, call them directly and arrange for a return.  Or at least speak to them.   Gaugemaster offer one of the very best repair/servicing departments I have come across.  Even if the PA is out of warranty I would still return it to them. I'm not saying they will, but often they will repair their branded electronic items for a small fee or sometimes even for free with you just paying the postage. 

I would not recommend that you open it or send it elsewhere until you have spoken to GM, if its one of their branded PA's.

The handset did come to life yes, in the pictures above you'll see I did just that in your first suggestion. I got a spare bit of track, hooked it up to the main track output and it still gives the issue. A known working loco on that test bit of track also gave the same problems. I removed the track altogether and measured voltage across two wires coming out of the power unit, same thing  

My program output, works totally fine. DCC commands can be sent and received. [I've put a final comment below :)]

2 hours ago, ELTEL said:

I suggest sending it back to Gaugemaster (phoning there technical team first) as I have found that Gaugemaster will no doubt repair it under warranty 

 

Terry 

Thank you very much to this community, who all help out of kindness of the hobby.

Today, I sent the unit to the wonderful GM team (who got back to me within minutes), and they are going to take a look at it. I know there are bigger things happening in the world right now, than my train set- so I'm ever so grateful for anything they can do.

thank you all!

I'm not really sure even after tons of googling how ground signals should really be deployed. It seems largely open to interpretation depending on the siding/situation. So, I've got one example (see pics below) of a siding that comes off of my mainline, and I wondered if I could get your thoughts on whether what im thinking is total overkill.

Then, I also don't know, does double red mean don't go? or does double red mean, you can't go straight, so at the turnout you're turning off? (So to speak).

Then I've got some questions if I may?

1. Some parts of my layout, I just can't fit a ground signal on the left-hand side. Is it ok to place it on the right?
2. Should I mix between these new modern ground signals and BR Diesel ground signals? (I'm just modelling a modern-ish era) no specific time-frame in mind.
3. The BR diesel signals only have three lights; 1 red, 2 white. What does it mean when the 1x red and the 1x adjacent white lights are on?
4. Would ground signalling work for a three-way point in my depot area? or, for the main routes to the fiddle yard lines, should I use main signalling?
5. Could a signal be used outside of a shed, to signal DONT COME IN! haha?
6. What's more common in the modern era, the signal heads below or the 3-aspect ground signals?

I realise, these are a lot of questions, so I wanted to reference some places I'd google'd just so you don't think my first port of call was being lazy.

Wikipedia

Google Images

Network Rail

Hornby

(Don't ask why) Dorman's official technical data sheets for ground signals

Signal questions on RMweb

Big thank you in advance

34 minutes ago, NIK said:

 

Hi,

 

It may depend on whether  your command station is still in warranty.

 

If not it may depend if you are experienced in repairing electronics.

 

Hopefully others can advise when they have time.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Thank you - massively welcome anyone else if you have any thoughts? I've reached out to Gaugemaster too :( Might give the rails team a call tomorrow if anyone here doesn't have any other suggestions :)!

25 minutes ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

A possible but basic explanation is that the main output from your DCC command station is malfunctioning.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Is there anything I can do about this?

Update test 2: my program track and my test track, when plugged into the program terminal and I fire the “read” command. All work DCC fine. 
 

first pic is programmed track isolation. Second pic (which I’ve never done before is main track in the protean terminal). 
 

what is up with my main track output?

Hello thanks for the quick reply. Good thoughts! So, first pic below is the voltage on the track with nothing plugged in, is that normal? Am I even using the right setting. 
 

the second picture is what’s usually my program track unplugged from the program terminal and wired into the main track terminal. So this is just regular red and black wire directly soldered to a piece of track. Nothing else. 
 

I’m still Getting this green light / no dcc command :( 

why/what would cause the unit to do this overnight :( 

Hello

my title is probably incorrect because it’s probably not doing that, hence why I’m stuck.

ive tried searching for a variety of things including the voltage I’m seeing on the rails but nothing seems to have the help I’m looking for. So I would super appreciate anyone’s better knowledge on this than mine trying to help me figure this out

today I receive some new coaches for my test train IEP class 800. Very excited to see the full train running, I put it into my development layout (which is pretty big) and to my avail, the whole set of trains started whizzing off in any direction. 
 

I immediately cut the power and removed every train and wagon from the track. Switched it on again and noticed that my buffer lights were only showing one LED. I quickly put the track tester on the rails and it showed green. Whilst this indicates a DC layout, why on earth is my prodigy advance 2 only spitting this out?

i measured the voltage across the rails and it measured circa 6volts. 
 

I have some dcc concept point controls under the baseboard. These fired up ok and switch just fine. 
 

What’s weird is a few trains didn’t immediately race off when the power was on. 
 

ive hoovered the track, checked for any shorts usually the system would flash and the whole layout / buffer lights would flash whilst a horrendous zap noise takes place on and off. 
 

so I can’t see this as a short. 
 

what’s weird, the system worked fine last night. And as if by magic, having turns it on today - boom

help much appreciated as I currently feel like I have a complete waste of a train set that I can’t fix

thanks

matt

Hi, I wonder if anyone could possibly help me understand if this is something I can fix easily or if it needs returning

I recently received my brand new, class 158 with sound. Cost a lot so I’m a little puzzled if this is common or just shoddy   

the wheels on one of the bogies seems to be really sku-wiffy and misaligned. To the extend naturally where the loco just doesn’t sit on the rails. 
 

I had a quick feel of the wheels to see if I could possibly slot them into a holding position but, without being fearful I might damage this really expensive model (to me) I thought I’d pop on here first to make sure I don’t damage it further. 
 

any help is really appreciated :)

thanks!

And here’s some newer stock. 
 

So - I think my options are to replace the track. do you think this will throw out an entire rings connections and so id need to re-do the whole loop? Or could I just cut the track at the curves and try to make it tighter.

is there a preference on track, outer or inner? 

And then how I had to come back to peco’s distance. But obviously too close right  

Here’s an example of where I had to expand to hornbys track distance for the older points. 

Hey everyone. Thank you very much for the quick replies! 
 

I wanted to upload a video but couldn’t I’ll try to add some more helpful facts

im using peco flexitrack, code 100.

Where you see the hornet track distance it’s because I’ve tried to make use of old points I had (but maybe I’d be better off replacing with peco?)

so the majority of track is set at peco’s streamlined distance. With the exception of one set of points and one Hornby crossing. 
 

what’s confusing is new stock makes it round fine, it’s my older C3 virgin east coast and really old intercity stock that doesn’t. But as you say, I want to be able in the future to run anything. So this does need resolving as much as prototypical running conditions would be fun! I’d love to just leave trains going around. 
 

I have been using peco’s track gauge it’s just annoying that at some points of the curve it doesn’t line up and that’s why I wondered if the driving in of my pins did it. 
 

what I can’t get flex I track to do is stay in a curve / position whilst I test something. That’s why I pinned it down. 

Hi, this is my first post (newly signed up) as I’ve hit a bit of a road-block with my layout development.

Firstly, I feel massively under-skilled but do have huge ambitions. So forgive me as I’ve probably made every rookie mistake. 
 

Tonight I finished my third loop to my layout, it’s been painful but so pleasure able to see the third loop in place. Only to notice (and I tried to prevent this) that my larger coaches brush against each other at the corners when navigating my curves. 
 

ive used tracksetta’s 24” and 21” for the outer and inner curve respectively. I even used Peco’s gauge red plastic thing to make sure my curves are somewhat equal distances. 
 

but to no avail the brushing of coaches happens and it’s quite noticeable. Could even derail a train I feel. Not to mention damage the paint. 
 

other than ripping it all up and starting again (he’s me hoping that’s not the case) does anyone have any fantastic tips / tricks to give the parralell tracks a little bit more wiggle room to allow coaches to navigate? 
 

I think as I’ve driven track pins in it has moved the rails from their perfect alignment with the cork but I didn’t realise at the time it was significant enough to cause this :(. 
 

also, I bet there’s many topics on this but I couldn’t find something specific to recovering the problem. More topics on preventing :( but link me if you know of something better !

finally. Thank you in advance, I hope I’m in the right place and following the right rules of engagement :(

matti 

included some snaps of the layout tonight