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mark54

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  1. Some interior shots of Booth Car 1106 (& Lounge Buffet 1883) in this Pathe Newsreel. Note that the height of the booth walls is greater than in MJI's photos. Another modification carried out c1971 due to adverse comments from the public. The table lamps went as well. www.britishpathe.com/asset/88824/
  2. There is a photo taken at Greenwood of an empty stock train headed by a V2 on the Up Slow. I don't have copyright so won't post here. Behind the V2 are 7 brand new Mk1 Pullmans with white roofs - 3 Kitchen Firsts, 1 Parlour First, 1 Kitchen Second and 2 Parlour Seconds, With 2 1928 Brake Seconds, this would exactly allow the makeup of the London based set of the 1961 Queen of Scots. Substitutions by 1928 Pullmans were very common in the early to mid-60s. Besides the 12 Brake Seconds that worked with the 44 Mk1 cars, there were also 4 Kitchen Firsts, 1 Parlour First and 1 Parlour Second which were retained as spares for ECML Pullman services.
  3. There are some interior colour footage of a diag 30 Griddle Car in this 1961 Pathe out-takes reel at 1.46. www.britishpathe.com/asset/36346/
  4. The summer 1962 SR Appendix has the following Pullman Cars allocated to the Golden Arrow and annotated as fitted with Electric Heating: Aquila Aries Carina Cygnus Hercules Isle of Thanet Minerva Orion Pegasus Perseus Phoenix 34 36 208 That gives a total of 14. In addition Bulleid FK 7642 & 7643 are also annotated as allocated to the GA but doesn't indicate whether EH.
  5. The Sept 1964 SR Victoria Platform and Carriage Working Programme (available on Robert Carroll’s Coaching Stock Group) show the up train only had the 2FK included in the formation, annotated dates - up to Sept 25th and from 31st May 1965. They were not in the down train. Formation of the up train is shown as: PMV Pullman 2nd Brake Pullman 2nd Car Pullman 1st Car 3 Pullman 1st Cars Pullman 1st Brake 2 FK PMV (NB – Kitchen cars are not identified. The Brake Cars were Guard Brake Parlours) However, the summer 1965 SR Appendix to Carriage Working Notice shows that second class Pullmans had been withdrawn from the Golden Arrow and replaced by Mk1 stock. The following vehicles were allocated some of which would have been spares: Aquila (K) Carina (K) Isle of Thanet (G) Minerva (G) Orion (K) Phoenix (P) SK 25946 SK 25948 SK 25953 TSO 4903 TSO 4916 BSK 34939 So it doesn’t look like the Mk2 FK lasted very long in the formation. Prior to the Mk2’s, the summer 1964 Appendix to Carriage Working Notice had Bulleid FK 7642 & 7643 allocated to the GA.
  6. To make clear, as I didn't word it well, that the withdrawal of the White Rose gave sufficient cars to run a separate Hull Pullman (and an expanded Bradford portion in the Yorkshire Pullman). The Hull Pullman ran as an all Pullman service from May 1967 to October 1968.
  7. Full Brakes began to be rostered (with an extra Mk1 2nd) in 1965 at the north end, with a parlour brake retained at the south end. By 1966 these too were replaced by a Mk1 2nd. The BG was then at the south end for the Tees-Tyne & Master Cutler, middle for the Yorshire, but the White Rose had a BG at both ends. When 2nd class started to be withdrawn, initially in Oct 1968, the Master Cutler was withdrawn completely and the Hull Pullman (with the cars from the White Rose) had a BG at the south end but by late1969/early 1970 had switched to a Mk1 BSO at the north end. The Tees-Tyne and Yorkshire retained a BG at the south end when 2nd class was withdrawn in May 1969 and May 1971 respectively.
  8. The departmental coach looks like a BCK (with 2 first class and 2 second class compartments), and the end second class compartment and toilet compartment have been modified to the arrangement seen.
  9. According to the Hatfield to Hertford book by Peter Paye, Luton Refuse went to the tip at Holwell. This would have to have gone via Hatfield as there was no connection between the Dunstable branch and the main line at Welwyn Garden City. This traffic ceased in 1966. There is a photo of an N7 leaving Welwyn Garden City along the branch in 1960 with a rubbish train on the Cole Green Way photo gallery site: www.hertsmemories.org.uk/content/herts-history/topics/transport/railways/lostrails/cole-green-way-photo-gallery Besides the Asburton Grove traffic, there was also a refuse train from Kings Cross Goods to Blackbridge Sidings. Possibly Camden refuse?
  10. BR did experiment with pre-prepared and pre-cooked frozen food in the mid 1950’s using “Frood” which was a trading name of Lyons Frozen Foods. The idea was that as much preparation as possible was done prior to loading so that the on-board kitchen could be compact and meals could be prepared quickly. Cafeteria Car Type C M675E (CAF) was the prototype. All the Restaurant-Cafeteria Cars (RCAF) were so fitted. The frozen food was loaded into the Cars in trolleys. The Sept 1954 Trains Illustrated article called “British Railways new Cafeteria-Restaurant Cars” describes food available on a St Pancras to Bedford demonstration run in July.
  11. From the windows, seating layout and longitudinal cafeteria, the car featured can be identified as an ex-GE RF conversion to Cafeteria Car Type C. This was a dual-purpose vehicle – for service and excursion trains - with 32 tip-up seats (in 4 bays 2+2 across) at one end and a kitchen at other end which could serve full meals to an adjacent saloon coach. The initial allocation and introduction dates of the conversions were: SC670E 8/8/53 SC671E 13/6/53 SC672E 8/8/53 SC673E 13/6/53 E674E 13/6/53 M675E 13/6/53 I don’t have any withdrawal dates.
  12. Thanks Keefer. Yes correct. It is the distinctive windows that identify it. If you look through the counter, you can see to the other end of the car which was a mirror image of what can be seen.
  13. These 6 cars were Cafeteria Type B and were designed for excursion trains, serving cold food and hot and cold drinks. They were double ended with a small central kitchen flanked by 2 transverse counters. At each end was a central scalloped table with 11 stools. Passengers would take a tray and select food items from the display cases. The attendants would serve drinks and take payment. An interior shot can be found in Paul Bartletts's site: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/interior The initial allocation and introduction dates of the conversions were: M30001M 11/7/53 M30003M 11/7/53 M30006M 5/9/53 E30007M 5/9/53 W30017M 5/9/53 SC30018M 5/9/53 At some point 30007 was transferred to the LMR. I don’t know if there were any other transfers. Withdrawal was I believe from 1962 to 1965.
  14. The 13th coach leaving Kings Cross was an RU for dinner service, marshalled at the front of the train and detached at York. This would have been transferred from the back of the 15:30 Leeds on arrival at Kings Cross.
  15. The ECML Carriage Working Notices always have the seating capacity as 62 for a TSO on trains with air-conditioned stock. Likewise always 31 for a BSO. The total 2nd class for the Hull Pullman at this time is shown as 307 seats (which includes 28 seats in the RMB). I assume if an Mk2f TSO or BSO was included in the formation, the extra 2 or 1 seat respectively, would not have been reservable.
  16. The final Hull Pullman was noted by Simon Lee with 55014 for the up and 47410 for the down working. On the up working, the extra TSO was for a party booking: E317E PFK E328E PFP E313E PFK E1986 RU E1671 RBR E5731 TSO 2d E6158 TSO 2f E5908 TSO 2f E5724 TSO 2d E9510 BSO 2f E5916 TSO 2f It is interesting to note the substitution of an RBR for the usual RMB. I suspect this is in anticipation of the train become the Hull Executive the following Monday when the formation according to the May 1978 ECML Carriage Working Notice was BG 2FO RU RBR 6TSO.
  17. Here are 2 actual formations of the Hull Pullman set as noted by Peter Mallaband: From June 1975 at Kings Cross E320E PFK E330E PFP E319E PFK E1968 RU E1874 RMB E6151 TSO 2f E5922 TSO 2f E5624 TSO 2d E5938 TSO 2f E9490 BSO 2d On Saturday 3rd Sept 1977 at Craigentinny on a weekend special working for the Edinburgh Festival. Note there are 2 extra TSO for the special. E318E PFK E327E PFP E313E PFK E1986 RU E1879 RMB E5917 TSO 2f E5627 TSO 2d E5707 TSO 2d E6151 TSO 2f E9493 BSO 2d E5660 TSO 2d E5671 TSO 2d
  18. I doubt in maroon. They would most likely been on the East Coast Mainline and as front line stock would have been given blue/grey livery pretty quickly. I would think from 1971 some were transferred to work on East Anglian services. Ditto for Mk1 Parlour Seconds.
  19. The other give away that it is not the prototype is the roof vents. The protype had a double line and the production batch had a single offset line. The prototype also didn’t have externally fitted windows. The fitting looks similar to the final batch of Mk1 FK with a seal round the main body-light. Other interesting points from the original photo are that the Pullman (I believe E351E) has it’s grey panel extended over the doors while all the other Parlour Seconds had blue doors. Also the Mk2 FK has a non-standard grey panel that doesn’t align with Pullman’s. It is right up under the windows, rather like Bachmann’s original incorrect rendition of the Mk2/Mk2a livery, corrected on their later batches.
  20. There is a photo of the sorting side of M30204M (Diag 1908) on page 88 of An Illustrated History of the Travelling Post Office by Peter Johnson.
  21. The 6 H30/H31/H32 Triplet dining sets were built in 1925 and, as you say, were separated and lengthened in 1936. The H31 Kitchen Cars became Diagram H49 9657-9662. In 1955 they were further converted to Cafeteria Cars. I have never heard of a diagram number for the Cafeteria Cars. 4 of the H30 First Class Dining Cars became Diagram 50 9645-9648 4 of the H32 Third Class Dining Cars became Diagram 51 9649-9652 2 each of H30 & H32 became Diagram H52 Dining Cars 9653-9656. These had a Third Class layout, but 1 seating bay less and the addition of a toilet and cupboard.
  22. Am I missing something here? There are no Mk2b's in this photo. The BSO is a Mk2c (there being no Mk2b BSO's)
  23. According to the "British Railways Lettering and Numbering of Coaching Stock" they were labelled BUFFET RESTAURANT CAR. David Faulkner's PDF states you were the source of the original document.
  24. The formation of the 1968 non-stop was: BSK (CW) FO (CW) FO (BR1) RK (B5) TSO (BR1) TSO (CW) RMB (CW) It appears to be ER stock except the Kitchen Car must be an LMR one as the ER didn't have any with B5 bogies. The FO with CW bogies is one of the 1956 batch E3076-80 with trial bogies.
  25. Phil, the other thing you should be aware of is that The Hadrian Bar was converted from a Third Class car whereas the Hornby car is a model of a first class car conversion, therefore there are differences in the window layout. Also internally the toilet is on the side, there is no coupe and it has 2+1 seating. Robert Carroll's photo shows the corridor side in green livery. https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/28912968487/in/album-72157603653607671/
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