WILLIAM ADDISON

Thank you Brian, I appreciate your answer.

Following the usual superb advice from experienced forum members I created a wired points system from a Guagemater Controller accessory section at 16V AC (the rest of my layout is DCC but I did not want the expense of decoders in every point motor).  Because the layout is reasonable sizeable at 12' x 14.5' I followed advice and used a heavier gauge wire from my Seep PM1 Points to the on off on toggle switches pin the layout board diagram I created to house the switches - this was 24.02 gauge wire .  And everything has worked out fine after learning the critical need to slacken off the PM1s slightly and to use a CDU to give the extra oomph needed to power the points .

However I want to tidy up the wiring behind the board and my question is do I need a wire (I use red) as heavy as 24/0.2 connected to the CDU and the central section of each on/off/on toggle switches given that we are talking about only short distances here.  Of course the outer connections of each Seep connecting to the board do use this wire as I have stated.  Certainly a thinner wire would allow me to neaten things up.

I must confess to be very much an electrical ignoramus and have usual gotten things right through the kindness of forum members.  Any advice would be most graciously welcomed.

William

Just now, WILLIAM ADDISON said:

Nothing to apologise for Dave - as I said I'm quite a dullard at times.  Really appreciated your help.

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Glad you didn't go the way sometimes suggested here and disconnected the tender pick ups.

For years they were never supplied and to say rip them out, is a tragic waste!

I quite agree Kevin I was glad the problem was resolved without any drastic action.

William/Mick

16 hours ago, bmb5dnp1 said:

Hello,

  Glad you got the problem sorted. The "tongues" are so easy to bend to create shorts. Sorry my description wasn't clear in the first place. The layout sounds very impressive.

 

Dave

Nothing to apologise for Dave - as I said I'm quite a dullard at times.  Really appreciated your help.

Good News, Good News as Roscoe P. Coltrane would say.  Firstly, I haven't blown the chip.  Secondly I had adjusted the horizontal and vertical "tongues" as instructed above and no shorting as the loco is working fine once more.  So as the kind posters above suggested that was the case of the shorting.  I detached the wire which I thought may have caused the shorting and may reconnect it  so the tender pickups also kick in but I'm in no hurry when the loco is working so well.

Once more I am so grateful to all the posters for their advice.  I have learnt a lot over the past few years via you tube and trial and error in making quite extensive layout with fully electrically controlled Seep Points (38 of them) and now 90% ballasted into an industrial type steam layout (express and good/coal) of the late 50's early 60's based on Sunderland and Newcastle but I will always keep running into problems and that's where the experience and kindness of other posters far more skilled than me is so helpful.

Once more chaps, thank you so much.

William/Mick

In that case Kevin would I just be better off disconnecting the whole loco to tender electrical attachment as in the Forum discussion above (which I refer to) some posters say that the loco alone has enough pickups?  But you are right I need to find the base fault before putting another chip in.

Thank you

Mick

Firstly, thank you so much for the replies above for which I am very grateful.  Just before bed last night I found this older post and replies on the forum: 

Dave, I misinterpreted which tongues you meant and will now follow your advice on what to do with these horizontal tongues.  Dominion you also make this very clear and thank you to you.  I have not tried the loco on its own assuming, as the dullard I am,  it needed the tender to power up as it were.  From the discussion above I realise that a more drastic solution is to cut all of the wires and just run a "dead" tender behind.  But I will follow your advice to narrow things down

RHF9019 when I looked underneath I could only see one unattached wire and assumed it went on to the female brass connector - I need to have a good look at the under and loco to see if any other wires are loose too.

I need to get a bit of shopping with my wife this morning and then I will go up into the loft where my layout is to try these solutions.  But I have one fear in that my last try which shorted once more may have blown the chip as a little smoke came out.  If so, I will get a new chip from my local railway shop today if I get no feedback from my Guagemaster Prodigy controller.

For the moment let me thank you all again for your very kind and constructive replies.  I will keep you all posted for sure.

William/Mick

Dave, I bent the brass "tongues" away from the pin or Tender post but it is still shorting.  For the life of me I cannot fathom why as it wires up the same as Wild Swan and the A3 with the same tender loco connector.  But thanks for your help anyway I do appreciate it.

William/Mick

Thank you Dave I will try this and let you know how I get on.  By the "pin" I assume you mean the "male" end of the tender's connecting "post."

Mick

Hi folks,

I'm not sure if I have this question in the right place but here goes.  After ballasting my layout I have been enjoying playing trains again.  However, yesterday Hornby 60039 "Sandwich" just stopped running.  I looked underneath the loco to see that a wire coming from under the cab  had come away from the "female) brass connector which  to the "male" metal pole in the tender.  So I soldered it back on today expecting everything to be hunky dory but it just keeps shorting.  I have two other Hornby locos with the same tender/loco arrangement: 60021 (A4) and 60047 (A3) and in checking these I have simply soldered the wire back to where it was originally as there is a small solder blob there and replicating exactly where the wire is connected on the other two locos.  They work perfectly (as did Sandwich - all excellent runners) but Sandwich is suggesting I've done something wrong by shorting every time I put it on the line.  I'm not very tech savvy and my electrics knowledge is very basic but for the life of me I cannot see what I have done wrong.  I even soldered it to the outside of the brass "female" attachment and cleaned the brass to ensure a good contact but still I get shorts.  How can this be when 60021 and 60047 have this wire soldered in just this very place - to the right of the female brass connector when looking at the loco on the foam maintenance cradle/upside down.  The short occurs when I create a circuit by attaching loco to tender.  Anyone with these older Hornby Pacifics will understand what I am trying to explain (I hope!)

I would be extremely grateful for any suggestions as to what I have done wrong please.

All three locos are DCC as is everything else on my DCC layout.

William Addison

Thank you so much for the replies.  Of course some of the terms used in your answers are 'Greek' to me but the links you all provide are very helpful.

William

BTW following the excellent analysis of what is likely the problem with this loco from the members who replied to me I found this on eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334101664693?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338364430&customid=334101664693_1&toolid=11000

William

Thank you so much for the replies.  Of course some of the terms used in your answers are 'Greek' to me but the links you all provide are very helpful.

William

Hello there,

Having found the kindness and skill of forum members so helpful when I was constructing my DCC 00 gauge model railway and completing the electrics, I wonder if any forum members could help me with the following problem.

I have the Hornby re-built Patriot, Sir Frederick Harrison.  This has been a superb loco which has run beautifully on my lay out.  However, after taking it our of storage whilst I completed some point motor installation I have found that the engine is "free wheeling" as it were.  I have not used this loco a lot and I am always careful when I put locos in and out of storage.  Clearly, there is something wrong with the drive mechanism even tough I cannot figure what has caused it.  When I use my Gaugemenaster DCC controller nothing happens and I can effectively push the loco with all the wheels turning beautifully BUT not under power.

I would be very grateful for any help that members could offer me.  I could take it into my local MR shop for repair but IF it isn't too complicated to get things right I'm prepared to have a go myself.

Thank You

William Addison

Thank you so much Brian, (and for much of your earlier guidance on such matters which helped me so much when wiring up all the Peco electro frog points and connecting them to Seep PM1s).  I'm shying away from the possible electrofrog conversion and just using it as a simple insulfrog PL90  as I'm not getting any stalling even on my short-base locos.  And a big thank you to all the other kind respondents.  Everything is working wonderfully now.

William

Thanks Robert - will do.

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

There is an existing thread about these which you might want to read ...

 

 

Thank you Michael - there is truly some very useful material there.

William

Thank you so much.

William

Ah sorry - I have an SL 90 Double Slip and going back to my opening post I want to know how to wire it to connect with my Seep PM1s please.

William

Sorry I'm going to check the code again as my "short crossing" (if that's what it is) does have moving parts at either end under which I have installed the Seep PM1s.  I installed this some time ago and have concentrated first on wiring up all the electrofrog points and I'm looking for the original packaging and guidance sheet.  I can use the hand of God (me) to move them but would like to include them to automatic control via my control panel via a toggle switch.

It sounds like I'm using the wrong code to describe the part so please bear with me whilst I try and locate the original packaging etc. and come back with a more competent description.

William

After receiving much help from forum members I have almost completed my layout control panel where I've successfully wired up many Seep PM1 point motors via a DC auxiliary power supply to power the Peco Electrofrog crossings which dominate my layout.  However, I still have a Peco SL 90 double slip to complete.  In fact, I have connected one point motor on the SL90 the same way as I wired all the electrofrogs WITHOUT any connection from the point motor to the live point frog itself (which is necessary on all the electrofrog crossings to ensure power continuity - the PM1 itself sorting out the polarity switching).  But I'm getting no response from my toggle switch linked to that point motor on the SL90.

Are there some wires from the PM1 (A C D E F B) which do NOT need to connected to the Peco SL90?  On the toggle switch itself I have connected the middle to the live common return, and on the PM1 point motor I have connected terminal D to the negative common return (all linked to my CDU which in turn is linked to the DC power source I use, the rest of my layout operating as a DCC system as I didn't want the complication of using DCC to power the Seep PM1s.

I've got the feeling that less wires need to be connected to get things working and I would be extremely grateful if forum members could advise me on this.  I hope I've clarified the problem but I'm still a relative model railway electrics novice.

Kind regards

Mick

Thank you very much to everyone who responded to my "cry for help" in this thread - so typical of the kindness on the Forum.  I now feel I have enough confidence to pursue a practical solution to any offending Seeps in terms of failed polarity switching on my new layout.

Mick

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

 

There is a downloadable instruction leaflet for the Gaugemaster GM500 here, and a circuit diagram here.  The principle would be the same if you were instead using cheap DPDT latching relays bought off eBay - you would just need to refer to the relay's spec sheet to work out which pins on the relay corresponded to which solder pads on the GM500.

Thank you very much for those references.

Mick

Thanks again Ray that explains a lot.

Mick

8 minutes ago, Ray H said:

We use these micro switches from Rapid Electronics (code  78-0870). The minimum order is 5 at around 46p each plus VAT and P&P on smaller orders. Lay them on their side with the metal "arm" against the end of the tie-bar - that's the bit of plastic that the SEEP pin goes through and to which the two point blades are connected to.

 

It is probably best to fit the switch so that the tiebar has pushed the arm up against the body of the switch and the arm moves away from the switch body when the point direction is changed. The switches are about 12mm wide and 6mm thick and high when laid on the baseboard.

 

You can fix them with panel pins or the like but the pin diameter is often smaller than the two fixing holes which means the switch can move. That isn't necessarily a problem if they're positioned accordingly.

 

We've never used screws but that might be another option as is a Hot Glue Gun, although you have to be careful with adhesives of any sort that you don't apply too much that can spill outside the body of the switch and gum up the arm.

Thanks Ray.

So, from your description, these micro switches are fixed on the TOP of the layout adjacent to each point at the tie bar position?  Unless I'm interpreting this incorrectly .  But some of my Peco points are in very constrained areas, such as near to station platforms etc.  Others have more space which would allow them to be fitted (i.e. with a 12mm gap for the micro switch length sideways on adjacent to the tie bar) - again if I have got this right.

Mick

I've just finished re-centering/aligning the 'faulty' points and on longer wheel base locos they pass over the 'faulty' frogs fine.  Shorter 0-6-0's either stall or struggle.  I will check things with a multi-meter later.

Thank you for your reply ejstubbs, when I was researching this problem I saw this "latching relay" mentioned as a solution in older threads.  TBH, at the moment it's double-Dutch to me.  But would there be some online guide as to how to fit them to the system so it would make sense to a novice like me.  I have one crossing on my layout which I haven't got round to thinking about yet, but at the moment if this (latching relay) would be a reasonably straightforward thing to fit (again physically and electrically) I would certainly be interested.

Mick