StanierBlack5

Hi Ray,

In a nutshell, I changed the feed wires over on point #5 (as suggested earlier) which then allowed the loco to transverse the points until it reached point #6 then a short occurred, so changed the feed wires over on that point so no short when the loco crossed, same thing happened when it arrived at point #7 so changed the wires over on that point  -  no more shorts! It seems so elementary and logical now, but without help from our members, I'd still be pulling my hair out! 

Hope this explanation makes sense ,

Cheers, Roger

What a great day this has become with a great outcome! 

To say thanks to everyone just doesn't seem enough but many thanks to everyone not just to solve my 'short' problem but because I have learned a lot about points & 'shorts', today I have spent around an hour or so solving a 'short' on #5 set of points, fixing that to then get a 'short' on #6 set of points followed by a further 'short' on #7 set! It's my pleasure to announce that I actually solved the problems with knowledge that I have gained from you! I have no doubt that in the future I will be referring to this information (given to me) in time to come.

Thank you all so much, it is very much appreciated.

Cheers, Roger 

Hi Everyone,

It may help (me) if you show me where exactly I need to place my multi meter probes on the point frogs to get the voltage that you are looking for and meanwhile, I will reverse the DCC inputs on the left hand point (tomorrow morning) to see if that has any effect.

Thanks as always, Roger

DavidCBroad,

Thanks for your input, I've now learned another lesson with regards to member's suggestions, initially I had a few answers and instead of acting on each one until the problem was solved, the more I read, the more confused I got.

Back to the present, I've implemented what was suggested early on in the piece temporary linking district #1 'live' to district #2 'live' which caused a short in district #2, so does changing the bus feeds on district #2 literally mean changing the bus wire feeds over ('red' to 'black' and 'black' to 'red')?

Thanks for your input.

Cheers, Roger

Hi Everyone,

Mike, please see the attachment and I hope it's of some help towards solving my problem!

Cheers, Roger

Hi Andymsa & KingEdward11,

Thanks for your input - I'll let you know how I go!

Many thanks, Roger

Hi Mike,

Just checking the PC before shutting down ... although born and bred in Yorkshire, I spent 42 years in Australia and therefor my poison of choice is - 'Hardy's Crest, Cabernet, Shiraz, Merlot', a lovely drop of the red stuff! 

I'll no doubt be having a look at my latest model rail problem tomorrow!

Cheers, Roger

Today I disconnected the power feeds to the short piece of track and added a power feed to each of the two points mentioned - see diagram. 

Switched the power on both districts and run a loco over the points in both directions with the following result - loco running from left to right caused a short on district #1, the reversing along district #2 from right to left caused a short on district #2. Please see diagrams.

This is after taking up the track and points in question including the point motors which rally tried my patience re-installing them, and just when I thought well that's that job done, I now have two shorts to fix, so now it's off down stairs where a glass of red awaits!

Cheers, Roger

Firstly, 'Frog 1' (in District #1) and 'Frog 2' ( in District #2) are both powered by 'iP Digital' point motors.

Secondly, I will disconnect both power feeds to the short piece of track plus add feeds to the both set of points which are both residing in District #2 and report back tomorrow.

Cheers, Roger

To 'Gilbert' .. please see diagram.

To 'andymsa'  ...  All the points have been changed as per several modellers suggestion, small wires across gaps taken out etc., I switched around the power feeds to district #2 but it did not make any difference from what I could see.

To 'long island jack'  ...   Both these sets of points have yet to have power fed to them directly

my whole idea of the small piece of powered track was to power both sets of points in district #2.

As I suggested earlier, would it make a difference if I were to remove the small piece of track altogether and power the points directly?

I must apologise to Members who have offered advice and think that I have totally ignored it, that is not the case! Different approaches to solve my problem have been offered and I obviously have not offered more advice to help solve the problem so PLEASE have a look at the attachments as I need to get this problem sorted...!

'Loco_short' ... shows exactly where the short occurs ( after short piece of track).

'CP6'  ...  showing district 1 & 2 lit up with short.

'District bus wires'  ...  district #1 at the top and district #2 below showing feed to bus wires (district #2 showing left hand side bus wires only). 

Thanks in advance - as always.

Roger

I've done what has been suggested and placed a coin across the rails of the short piece of track which caused a short - the light for district 2 lit up, so what is my next move to rectify my problem?

Thanks in advance,

Roger

Firstly, thanks for all your input.

I've had a good look underneath the baseboard this morning and the more I look, the more baffled I get!

Working on the 'KISS'  formula and taking on board what you have said, if I remove the short piece of track in question then power the point instead where it joins to the next point, would that work? Please see my diagram. 

Once again, thanks in advance,

Roger

Please look at image #02 to see my set up and then image #01 to see where I have a problem that I cannot solve.

When a loco leaves district #1 via the points (using iP Digital point motors) to district #2, when in between the two districts a short occurs, this is my first layout build and I'm learning as I go!

Your help in this matter would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Roger

Many thanks John, yet another diagram to add to my collection  -  most helpful.

(Now back in Yorkshire after spending 42 years living in NSW, thought I'd just mention that!)

Cheers, Roger

Hi David, thanks for your reply.

After reading your explanation I am now wiser than before  -  with regards to Single Pole switches, would it be better if I purchased Double Pole switches and if so, how should they be wired?

Many thanks in advance, Roger

Following on from my previous post, would these switches be OK?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ARTGEAR-Universal-Rocker-Toggle-Switch/dp/B07GDCNXKP/ref=pd_vtp_60_13?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07GDCNXKP&pd_rd_r=111e3b0b-8587-4759-a9b3-f66876cce786&pd_rd_w=Q2cBu&pd_rd_wg=kA33J&pf_rd_p=78dd719b-ab64-47e6-8dc1-945f566666b3&pf_rd_r=KZYAEG58TXRW7CX4P43R&psc=1&refRID=KZYAEG58TXRW7CX4P43R

These are rated 240V AC but unless I've read this wrong, the track voltage is approx 15V DC  .....  does this make a difference?

Thanks in advance, Roger

Thanks again for your input.

Mike, yes you're reading the blurb correctly, although more costly than using auto rear light bulbs I think the CP6 looks better.

Thanks John for more diagrams for my collection, I've attached my diagram although not too professionally drawn as my printer/scanner stopped working last week but it shows what I now have in mind for my layout.

Cheers, Roger

As always, thanks for your input.

This is where I am right now; at the Festival of Railway Modelling held at the Doncaster Racecourse a couple of weekends ago, I spoke to Digitrains (Lincoln) where I purchased a CP6 Circuit Protector  -  not a circuit breaker. I intend incorporating this (together with the appropriate switches) into the diagram 2B supplied by 'Johns ks' and am wondering what type of On/Off switches to use.

Many thanks in advance.

Roger

I rather like the look of 'John ks' submission, using the diagram '2b' ... "Fault finding is easiest, just turn off switches until the fault goes away."

My question is a simple one, what kind of switch do I require and does this one fit the bill:

Single Pole Toggle Flick Switch 15A 250V AC ? 

Please excuse my ignorance but it is the very reason why I joined the forum, to obtain expert advice and help.

Many thanks,

Roger

Many thanks for all your replies and advice, I now have a lot more to think about before I go any further.

Thanks also to the internet and top forums like this one now that the digital age is truely with us, back in the day with DC, I'm sure that building a layout was not as complicated for beginners like me.

Than you all and Cheers,

Roger 

Hi bigP,

Yes, in the diagram District #1 would be the top line and District #2 would be the bottom one.

Yes, I have one command centre (NCE Power cab) and no power booster.

Thanks for the digital Cobalt info and it now looks like it's going to cost heaps for 24 points!

bigP, many thanks for your input.

Roger

Thank you both for your quick replies.

Talltim, trying to keep my question simple is the reason for mentioning two separate ovals, my layout will have two main lines (one up and one down), two goods lines (up and down) plus a six road carriage sidings and a smaller five road wagon sidings, all together I'll be using 28 sets of points at this point in time! Later I will be adding a turntable, shed and coaling plant etc., the layout base is 9' x 8'.

Joseph, I too am a beginner and am loving building my layout which at the moment has stalled as I am awaiting stock of the iP Cobalt Digital point motors coming in to stock, meanwhile I'm still mentally building it and getting help from this very good forum.

Thanks again fellas!

The more that I'm learning about building my first layout, the more confused I become, I would really appreciate your guidance with regards to the following:  Theoretically, if I had two oval tracks one inside the other, each having their own separate bus wire and connected together via two sets of electrofrog points (to enable a loco to change from one track to the other), to keep the two districts separate would I need to use nylon insulating rail joiners between the two sets of points? I forgot to mention that my layout will be DCC.

Please see the attachment and many thanks in advance.

Roger

Once again many thanks!