AMac

Hi all, (a bit of radio silence on my part!)

Many thanks to you all for all your advice, information and inspiration!  It's great to have the wealth of experience and knowledge that you all share.

Regarding the original question what freight trains to run, I will look through some of the source material suggested , re-read the information above including the workings already mentioned and think this through a bit more.

In the meantime this is roughly what I'm thinking;

1. MGR (already committed)
2. steel (probably a mixture of 8 - 9 BAA's/BBA's)
3. Speedlink (possibly a mixture OBA's, VBA's, VEA,s and maybe a couple of TTA's)
4. Vacuum braked service (already have a VEV, VVV and an SOV so will add to that)
5. Ballast with Sealions and Catfish (I think catfish were more prevalent on the midland region)
6. Freightliner (already committed)
7. Chemicals
8. Other/s as I get side tracked ...

I have a CCT, couple of full brakes and a Property Board GUV and was thinking about some sort of parcels but I'll see how that goes. I like the idea of a nuclear flask - even as part of another services as appears to have occurred.

I'll provide an update once I've once I've worked out what I want to run. (Still more than happy to receive more advice!)

Cheers

Looks good for replacing the old caps with the super caps.

Following up on my comment from a week ago,  the lights are definitely brighter on the older 2020 version. See below - the TBF on the left is the 2023 version and the TU on the right is the 2020 version   [Edit: Correction - the TU on the left side is the 2020 version and the DTS on the right is the 2023]. It's more obvious in the flesh but the 2020 lights glare more. It would be nice to reduce the glare - has anyone tried that?

On 11/03/2024 at 07:03, E100 said:

Having now looked at both boards it's very clear they are radically different with the 2020 capacitor positioned towards the pickups and the 2022 capacitor is positioned away from the pickups. I've taken photos below. Note that the new capacitors are 0.22F and 5.5V vs 1000uF (0.001F) and 25V.

Hi E100, thanks for the posts - you're a step ahead of me. My 2023 7 car set arrived a couple of weeks ago but I haven't got around to opening them up so many thanks for the photos.

Even though Hornby said the light circuit boards were the same, I had a nagging suspicion that might not be the case. Like you, I'm not experienced with electronics (probably less so!). I was gong to have a good look at the boards and try and work may through the surface mounted components.

Thanks also for your notes on the multi meter readings. Good luck and I'll start thinking about delving in and replacing the 2020 version capacitors. 

On another note I had vague idea that the lights are brighter in the 2020 version - possibly un realistically bright. Has anyone compared this? I'll have a look myself this weekend.

Many thanks again C126. I'll start looking at sourcing a couple or so of those books. 

Thanks for the tip on the working timetables - I'd stumbled on the  "Transport Past Times" site a few months ago ( https://transportpasttimes.co.uk/ ) but have only looked at what they have every now and then. I'll keep a closer eye on this site.  I'll also start looking for other sites for these documents.

Thanks for the follow up eastwestdivide - nice photos and info.

15 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I made a few trips to the North West in the early 1980s, mostly to Warrington, but here is a train passing Lancaster in 1984. 

No. 85026 passes Lancaster northbound (?) with a train of tube wagons, 10/7/84.

Definitely looks northbound to me. I have never been to Lancaster but I've been trawling through online photos of the station as well as google earth/google maps street view.

15 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Sorry I am a bit late to this thread.

As already mentioned most trains were either fully vac braked, or air braked by this time, a mixed freight with a brake van was getting rare.

The traditional vacuum braked wagon load network lasted until the early 1980s, being gradually succeeded by the introduction of the Speedlink network, (most of which were timed at 60 mph running class 6). I think the vacuum braked network was finally closed in April 1983, the last traffics being things like cement in presflos, clay in clayfits to Scotland, scrap in MCVS, some government stores/explosives in VEV vanwides and SOV pipe wagons, and domestic coal traffic in MCV/MXV/HTVs). The vac braked clay to Scotland went over to an interesting selection of air braked types like the PBA clay tigers, PNAs etc.

 

Hi Rivercider,  thanks for the info - all really helpful.  BTW, look through some of your photos on Flickr from time to time as well as your comments on RMWeb but didn't realise it was the same person until a couple of days ago!  Many thanks again.

And thanks for the offer!

23 hours ago, C126 said:

 

How long do you have?  🙂  If you can wait till Sunday, I will photograph some of my book-shelves for you for refs.  Dr Paul Shannon's oeuvre is a good place to start.  There are many inspiring compilations of photographs out there...

 

 

Hi C126. I have a quite a bit of time as I need to put the brakes on spending for a wee while! I can easily wait 'til Sunday.😃

HI eastwestdivide,

many thanks for the photos - great to have some examples.  I'm still a bit (maybe a lot!) ignorant of what Speedlink is other than general/all round freight by BR. Looks to me like a variety with the majority airbraked so they can run at 75 mph - is that about right?   I originally thought it was just VAAs / VBA's / VDA's plus VEAs and the OBA/OCA's but I can see there is quite a variety. 

For 1981/82, would VDA's be more prevalent due to the palletisation making VAA's/VBA's not matching pallet dimensions (I'm sure I read that somewhere)? And would you get both the bauxite/brown wagons and the railfreight red/grey? I'll check some of the photo sites like Paul Bartlett's.

Good to see some vacuum braked trains - I bought some wagons that I thought looked about right and have got a couple of vanwides (VVV and VEV i think) plus a 12T pipe wagon. I may end up with a small vacuum braked rake.

13 hours ago, 25kV said:

I take full responsibility, but none of the financial implications thereof!  :) 

006+002 and 007+001 (both 6+PC+2 formations) were both active around 1981-1982.  006+001 (with 49003 and 49006) in the middle operated the first public service, and my suspicion is that 007+001 were the standby set.  The latter was kicking around in early 1982 for sure, with a single power car (currently unknown number).

006 and 007 ran together as a full length rake (6+2+6 and 6+1+6) in the summer of 1981.

Good luck!!  My 004+001 1980 set is almost done - update coming soon on my thread.

Fair enough for not accepting financial liability - as long as I can blame someone else. In fact I might just make it a Valentine's Day present...

Thanks for the corrections on the 2nd PC and formations. I need to have a look at your site again.  81/82 is the main time window I'm trying to model so that's why I picked the 006/002 & 007/001 sets though I missed that they were 6+1+2 (instead of the 2 PC's).

I'm looking forward to your updates.

On 02/01/2024 at 23:14, 25kV said:

Thanks AMac!  :)   It was a labour of love madness, started when I got the idea to make a model of the unit I rode on in 1984.  I didn't have any vehicle numbers (aside from the driving cars and a recollection that one of the power cars was the named one) so set about trying to figure it out.  And once I was down the rabbit hole ... 

(You should definitely buy another set!  😉 )

HI 25kV. Madness has prevailed - 2nd set duly ordered 🤪. Just waiting for it to be shipped out.

The plan is to create a couple of trains - Mainly 370006 with PC 49003 and 370002 (with 49002?), then another one with 370007 (PC49001) + 370001> something like that anyway. Getting the right 2 car packs will mean minimising the renumbering. I'll check back to your page.  Also means I could run a full 14 car formation with 37006 & 370007. That's the theory anyway.

The bottom line is that it's all your fault that I've bought a second set!

3 hours ago, bazjones1711 said:

Slightly later than your time frame , but here's the TOPS pool for BAA wagons  , I have the pools for West Coast BAA and BBA if your interested 

Hi, that would be great to have the pools for WC BAA's and BBA's

1 hour ago, Taigatrommel said:

 

I've been having a look at flickr as I enjoy having something to research!
 

 

I hear you - I got side tracked myself last night! Thanks for the photos, I'll be looking at a rake of BBA's (or maybe BAA's)

26 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

I might have some detailed notes and the odd photo from some days out at Warrington, early 1980s. Seem to recall a Mossend-Severn Tunnel  Junction Speedlink service that swapped from electric to diesel, and carried a wide variety of air-braked freight. Should I have a rummage?

That would be great if you could. I'll definitely be building up a speedlink freight service now so any notes would be really useful.

On 08/02/2024 at 05:24, Fat Controller said:

Don't forget chemical traffic to and from Whitehaven. Some very colourful wagons on that...

Thanks - showing more ignorance here but do the chemical wagons come in hopper and tank form? I recall seeing examples of ICI wagons in both forms.

On 08/02/2024 at 11:44, stivesnick said:

...

There were a number of quarries around Shap on the WCML that would have sent trainloads of products. The book does not have any pictures of these trains - but likley to be vacumm braked hoppers. Can someone confirm?

 

Hope this helps 

 

Nick 

 

Thanks Nick - some more food for thought.

Hi all,

many thanks for all the advice and info so far. Much appreciated!  

@nigb55009 - thanks for the info on the Class 56's. Good to know when they were used around my location. I guess that will be another instance where I invoke Rule 1!

Gilbert thanks for the youtube link - great to have another video of train services.

On 08/02/2024 at 01:20, Mol_PMB said:

That part of the WCML was and still is a key freight artery with a wide variety of traffic.

 

At Carnforth north of Lancaster the Cumbrian Coast line branches off, so there was and still is nuclear flask traffic to Sellafield. Previously that line also served Workington steelworks which at the time had the UK's main rail rolling mill. So trains of new rails would be legitimate.

 

The Speedlink train is a very good shout, and probably a more likely place to see the TTA tankers than in a train of their own? Need to think about whether each of your trains is vac-braked or air-braked and marshal them accordingly.

Yes, the Nuclear flask traffic sounds interesting. I dismissed that purely on the basis of the Bachmann wagons (and now the accuscales ones) were just a bit late for me. However after looking at the Train formations book plus your comment.

I've also got the online version of "Modelling British Railways - Engineers Wagons" by Hornby Magazine and either in that or one of the P-Way threads on this site refers to being careful with the wagons/trains being vac or air-braked  (or fitted). I need to work my way through that as well.

On 08/02/2024 at 00:57, Titan said:

One freight I would include is a speedlink service.  Often a wide variety of wagons in one train, could even be electrically hauled by something like a class 85. Would be ideal for your smaller mixed freight - in the real world could be as short as one wagon!

Hi Titan - thanks I had wondered about some VBA's then went away from that idea but perhaps shouldn't have!

On 08/02/2024 at 01:20, Taigatrommel said:

I strongly associate steel traffic with the northern WCML, especially coils on BAAs (Bachmann) and BBAs (Cavalex).  Trains could be 10 wagons of fewer, often with double headed 86/87s.
 

Hi Taigatromel,

steel sounds like an option. I'll look into that. Would you get a mix of BAA's and BBA's?

On 08/02/2024 at 02:59, Jim Martin said:

As an alternative to the David Ratcliffe book (which is worth having, if you can get hold of it), you could try this: https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/product/5542/source/specoffweb. It's out of stock at that website, but you may be able to find a copy online. As a guide to the sort of subjects covered, see this thread: 

Note that for reasons that probably make sense to the guys behind Rail Express, the magazine ("REx") and the modelling section which has been included in every single issue for years and years (sometimes abbreviated to "REM") have separate number series, so REM144 would not be in REx144. Go figure.

 

The articles in Rail Express cover the whole country over a broad span of time, so I'd doubt that any one article would contain more than one or two formations relevant to you; but most of them would contain something.

 

Jim

Hi Jim,

many thanks for the links. Yes, I had found the "Train Formations Handbook" and already bought an electronic version through PocketMags. I agree - it has some really interesting train types. One includes some nuclear flask "Flatrol" wagons with 6 or 4 wheel plate bogies depending on the type. From my reading and very quick check, the nuclear flasks around my time period appears to be the flatrols that aren't availalbe at RTR (or maybe even kitset?). Maybe something to look at some scratch build if I get that far!

I also found the thread you linked which got me onto the Train Formations book. You can also by some of the REx mags online; backissues as far back as REx 176 though pocketMags (which are really cheap) but before that I've found them only via "ClassicMacazines.co.uk" Not too bad but still £5.25 each.

Hi,

I'm (still) in the process of starting a layout. It's loosely based on Lancaster Station set in very late 70's to early 80's with the main focus being around '81/82. I have some idea of passenger trains but would like some help/advice on freight trains and formations. Rightly or wrongly, I've thought of the following;

1. MGR (too late to change mind on this one - I have a 56 on it's way with 15 HAA's already in my box RTG)
2. Freightliner (again, I have already bought 2 pr of FGA outers plus 3 inners. Going to reduce to 2 blocks of 4 rather than in 5's due to fiddle/storage yard length)
3. Parcels train (I have a CCT, 2 BG's, 1 x GUV but the Property Board version - too late?, thinking about others - just more GUV's? PMV's? Siphon G's?)
4. Engineer's/P-way (I have 5 Seacows - thought about adding some Catfish and/or a Shark/Oyster)
5. Some smaller train of mixed freight? ( I have a couple of vanwides as a starter. Also a 12T pipe wagon - no thought there)
6. 12 -15 small petroleum tankers? (I have none of these yet)

I saw a reference to David Ratcliffe's "Freight-Train Formations" but that is a hard book to find. I'm from NZ and my knowledge is limited to online/youtube, books I can find and, of course, the help through the RMWeb forums which I've found incredibly helpful.

I'm asking a lot of questions I know! Any help on any one of the topics would be greatly appreciated including suggestions of other freight traffic .

For reference my layout will be 5.4m long - essentially an oval. The station will be about 2/3's the scale size of Lancaster with only 1 through line (down line)

On 03/02/2024 at 09:21, AMac said:

 I'm still waiting for mine as well.  I pre-ordered a sound fitted 56008 mid May (different chip if I understand you correctly) . I'm from NZ so waiting for their email confirming postage costs.

 

 

I also emailed  to check I was still on their list as Rails were advertising the Class 56's had arrived.  They replied with "... once this has been worked out we'll be able to contact you."  I think the response you got was a bit odd as a few days ago they were advertising that Sound fitted and DCC ready versions were available in store.

 

Anyway, crossing fingers they'll be sent through soon - they look really good. I just can't wait!

 

 

I ended up phoning Rails this morning to follow up. I had a really helpful person on the line - my understanding is that the loco was ready but confirming postage with me had slipped through the cracks. Anyway he sorted it out right there and then and it will be sent first thing Monday. As I expected and others have mentioned, Rails have had quite a few Class 56's to process and I understand sometimes the odd thing can be overlooked, the main thing for me is Rails have sorted it out and my 56 will be on it's way.

It's a bit of a wait for me still for the overseas shipping (a week or 2) - I'll just have to be patient! 

Great news! Hopefully mine is not too far away.

Happy running in on Sunday afternoon!