Robert Scott

4 hours ago, MrTea said:

 

I've always liked ordering from Hattons over the years. I have fond memories of brown paper parcels arriving very promptly from Smithdown Road in the late 80s and early 90s.

 

I don't know if anyone's got the latest Railway Modeller (I haven't had chance to check other mags yet) but I think the answer is hiding in plain sight with regards to Hattons' current relationship with Hornby.

 

They have 2 double pages of advert in the June issue (12a-15a) and out of approx 60 products featured on the first double page spread there are only 4 Hornby products (1 loco, 1 train set and 2 turnouts) featured! Most tellingly, of the upcoming products featured on p12a there are NO new Hornby products, the majority are Dapol or Heljan across 00, N and 0 scales. I seem to remember they've previously featured upcoming Hornby products e.g. A2/3 in this area.

 

The second double page spread covers their second hand/buy back service.

 

Q: Of those who had pre-order with Hattons, did you have to put down a deposit or pay in full? Or was it payment when the goods arrive with the retailer?

I had pre-orders with Hattons, no deposit was required, they would have taken payment upon supply.

2 hours ago, pc3163 said:

Hattons are still listing lots of Hornby items for Pre-order: https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000389/Hornby/advance.aspx

I took a look at what Hattons are still offering pre-order status. These I would suggest are standard stock items (when they are received) rather than the "must to haves" that most people place for pre-orders for.

I could be wrong however.

6 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

Pre-orders don't work like that, payment is only taken when the item is in stock.

That is not true, I placed a pre-order with a retailer and they required me to pay in full up-front. That retailer cancelled the pre-order when the model was released. Then advertised it for sale at a very inflated price.

I had the first part of my pre-order with Hattons (about 14 items) cancelled in February. Today I had another 12 items cancelled. That now accounts for 100% of my Hornby pre-orders cancelled. Last year I had 2 items cancelled just at the time they became available, I decided to cancel the rest and place direct with Hornby.

Whilst I can understand that Hattons may not get their full allocation, I find that for every item to be cancelled in 2 hits very bewildering. Surely I can't be that unlucky. Incidentally I placed these orders on the day of announcement so I was hardly very late.

Personally I think something else is going on that they won't admit to.

Update on my earlier posts. Gareth from Trains4U kindly got in touch with me privately and put aside for me one of his stock, which I have gratefully accepted.

In future I will place my pre-orders with him. I am really excited and looking forward to giving it a run.

10 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Robert,

Did you call them or look online as some are still shown as pre-orders and not sold out ?

 

Yes I called them, just one hope, one of the shops had a spare, but won't be able to let me have it at the moment. I am on the waiting list.

22 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Give Derails, Colletts of Exmouth or the Bure Valley model shop a call.

These outlets recently (this week) had some for pre-order at the normal -10% Hornby price reduction of £134.99 rather than the ridiculously inflated prices we've seen of late.

They are all small businesses who punch well above their weight and provide excellent customer service.

Unfortunately none of these had any stocks. 

My order from Hattons was cancelled today. Too late to get one from Hornby. This is the 3rd time this year that I have been let down on Limited editions. I didn't get the centenary Rocket, the Duchess of Atholl and now Evening Star. It seams to me that when it comes to Limited editions it is pot luck whether you get one or not. I don't think I will bother in future.

Do you still have the Wrenn 2-6-4T spares, I'm in need of a replacement wheel for the rear pony truck. Many thanks

Just as a matter of interest, I believe that if you make up an Excel spreadsheet, you can convert it later to an Access database. Then you can also add photographs etc.

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

As a postscript,Brighton got the better of me.And yes in the end I used PayPal. If Hornby’s preferred method of payment is down that route then why on earth offer the alternative of standard cc or debit cards only to decline them at payment ? Something not quite right here and a questionable practice.Not illegal in any sense,I’m sure but it should simply not be happening in this manner.Please Sandwich apparatchik,sort this one out. If it’s PayPal only,then b****y we’ll say so and be done with it and stop punters getting a sense of unease when their perfectly credit worthy cards are declined . Not clever.

Hornby website do take credit cards. Paypal is just another option.

2 minutes ago, MonsalDan said:

So the guy might have been out of pocket by over £200 because he was trying to help a small business and your reaction is to blame him.  Come on Andy, you're better than that.

Thankyou, I was rather put out by  that reply.

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

A growing number of outlets are working on the prepay model, ive got quite a lot in Accurascale, to the point I’ve self-imposed a credit limit on my pre-delivery spend there until something on prepaid list is delivered... 

 

There are a growing base of retailers requiring either a deposit or larger payment In advance of a models arrival  (including Rails & Locomotion, Kernow ) as well as others requesting larger payments, it is a changing world i’m afraid...

 

Some retailers will guarentee price, often preferential with benefits (savings, points, extra Under table discounts etc), if whole or part payment is made in advance. it may not be always be overt, but some retailers are definitely doing it.

 

I have advanced beans for a GT3, Rails Terrier, D, 18000, NER etc, which aren't always guaranteed to be available if you don't, a pre-order commitment is required.

I certainly was asked / incentivised to prepay for the D600, 102xx requested months ahead of arrival in this country, which also paid off in the speed they sold out.

 

GNR no1 requested upfront payments (and saved those who did a price increase), that too was an interesting birth.

we've seen that on other models through the years.

 

Some smaller outlets wont sell unlessyou do, i’m awaiting since April for my prepaid Narrow Planet order for instance, its progressing, but they wont make it without up front payment.

Admittedly ive only heard of one manufactuer/retail taking upfront and not delivering... weve had reams of history from him, but for “known and trusted” retailers this should be ok.

I don't think it unreasonable for some of Hornbys more limited releases this year that payment in advance should secure yours, though it would appear from suggestions above, that Maybe it doesn't.

 

I will add, I can see how “over selling” may occur with a retailer, and that some retailers it is possible to by-pass there “sold out” window and still purchase, which could inadvertently create that oversold situation for them.
 

I don't yet know if I secured my R3819, I didn't pre-pay, but i’m hoping my prior spend buys loyalty, otherwise i’m out of luck.

 

 

 

 

 

If the case of the Hornby Rocket is anything to go by, spending loyalty means nothing. I had spent several thousand pounds in the previous six months with a major supplier, I still did not get one because they "oversold".

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

You may not be to blame for that part, if a shortfall is proven in that specific instance but I can't believe you were daft enough to shell out £250ish up front. I don't believe any other retailers were asking for that.

 

I've got some magic beans if you want some?

Lol yes please. But seriously, I decided to order from one of the smaller retailers in the belief (wrongly or rightly) that I would get the model even though I was less happy to pay in full in advance.  But I am sure that they were protecting their interests as I have heard of people placing orders and then cancelling them later.

20 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

That's unacceptable, I can only hope you had the sensibility to pay by credit card so you stand a chance of recovering your money. I'd blame myself and the shop before Hornby if I was you.

Why should I blame myself if there is a shortfall of the item?

Actually I paid by paypal so I am fully protected. I had a look at their website just now and they are showing a one available.

Well after being disappointed with the "over-selling" of The Rocket earlier this year, it look as though I am unlucky again, even though I pad for my model in January, as the shop demanded full payment in advance.

If I do not get mine I shall be very angry! Whatever the cause and on this occasion it would appear to be Hornby at fault, this is unacceptable.

1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Rails was my personal choice for years before Hattons offered PayPal as a payment method.  I always received excellent service from Rails but find the unknown shipping cost until checkout and the cumbersome search software enough of a turnoff to not make me return.  I used Kernows several times and would continue to use them only if they offered PayPal.  The credit card imposes an additional cost around $10.00 Aud which to me is an unnecessary cost.  That said the service from the store was exceptional and I do regularly look at their limited edition commissioned stock and their bargains but that credit card burden turns me back to Hattons.  I am growing old and comfortable with Hattons and find it like an old sweater that is not perfect but fits so comfortably and is always my personal choice.

Rails of Sheffield also take Paypal.

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Try suggesting rather than adopting a demanding tone please.

Point taken.

Dave,

Whether it was intentional or not, you still accepted pre-orders in excess of the confirmed allocation from Hornby.

What you need to do is, when you have sold your initial allocation and you are unsure of additional stock being available, stop taking orders and ask customers to express interest (via your wish list). If you are then able to get additional stock, or a customer cancels his order you can then offer to a customer from the wish list. This seems a fairer way of doing things.

You must also realise that when these situations arise, you inevitably damage your reputation.  I must also add that I have walked away from using your shop as my first choice and will only use you now as a shop of last resort.

I have cancelled my outstanding pre-orders with you.

36 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

Good Afternoon Robert,

 

First of all I’d like to sincerely apologise for having let you down in this situation. I’d also like to address a couple of your points if I may.

 

Accepting pre-orders beyond allocated stock levels is a questionable business ethic.

I would agree if this had been done intentionally due to malice or greed. However, this certainly wasn’t the case. We never deliberately look to have more pre-orders taken than we have stock.

 

This wouldn’t have happened if Hattons cared about their customers.

We certainly do care about our customers and we’re taking steps to ensure they do not face this situation again in future.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

14 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Do you KNOW at what point Hattons became aware they would not be receiving their full order? 

I doubt you do. So attributing blame to a company without knowing the full story is rather pathetic, but sadly an all too common state of affairs in what is otherwise a fine hobby.

The whole point is that Hattons continued to take orders beyond their known allocation. 

I was one of the unlucky ones who had their pre-order cancelled by Hattons.

Accepting pre-orders beyond the stock that was due to be allocated is a questionable business ethic.

I have re-acted by cancelling all my pre-orders and placing them with other suppliers which I hope they will be able to supply. I will no longer be shopping with Hattons as my first shop of call and will only now use them as a last resort, and have told them so. Not that I think they will take any notice or care.

If they cared about their customers they would not allow this to happen in the first case.

I was also one of the unlucky ones who had entrusted Hattons with my pre-order. The pre-order was placed on 8th January. Obviously by then their known stock must have been all sold.

They could have informed me that the likelyhood of being able to get further stock was unlikey and cancelled the pre-order then and there. The fact they did not brings into question their business ethic.

In the last 6 months I have spent in excess of £2.6K as I have always used Hattons as a first stop shop. Resulting from this fiasco I have decided to only use Hattons as a shop of last resort. I have cancelled all my pre-orders with Hattons and transferred them to other suppliers, who I hope will act more ethically.

So by acting the way they have they have lost a lot of future business from me. Although I doubt if they would care or even notice.