45655

In practice the various four coach non-corridor "cross country" sets and the "4½" sets (four 48ft bogie carriages and a six wheel van) would have been pretty much interchangeable.  They had similar amounts of passenger and luggage accommodation.

Keith

Alton.

As was the original Urie version.  The Southern Railway painted them in passenger livery for this reason, although they were basically designed for trunk haul freight traffic between Feltham marshalling yard and Southampton Docks.

I can report that no. 506 at the Watercress Line here in Hampshire is not at all disappointing on hills!  As a heavy freight engine designed to run long distances at 25mph, it is arguably rather more useful to a heritage railway than, say, a Bulleid Pacific.  Hopefully it will not be too long now before its stablemate 499 is back in traffic, in as-built Urie condition.  That will be a sight to see.

Keith

Alton, Hampshire.

On 14/05/2024 at 14:48, uax6 said:

 

What lever does your Bardic have? I've refurbished many of the NR ones and I have discovered at least four different styles of switch lever/knob. The easiest to flick was a cast ally long handle, which I presume was the earliest type. Most Bobbies 4 aspect lamps have a small crucifix style one, which with my sausage fingers is a bit difficult to grip.

 

Andy G

I think the earliest type was a cruciform black plastic knob with four equal sides. (Very early Bardics can be identified by the absence of a cast sleeve around the switch shaft.)  This was succeeded by a version with one longer side.
 

The alternative cast metal finger type came in two versions: a short version for lamps which could show a yellow aspect and a long version for lamps restricted to showing white, red and green aspects.  This last would certainly be easier to flick over.

Keith

Alton.

14 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

And what a pile of carp they are too....

 

I've spent some time changing the West Anglia proper Bardics to take three D cells and also changing out the lamps to LED's. These simple improvements are well worth the effort, and you keep a bomb-proof lamp. These will be the only things left on earth in a million years time!

 

Andy G

Mine are modified to take a LED bulb and 3x AA cells.  In this form they are ridiculously light and (in heritage railway use) still seem to go on for years.  The only issue with LED bulbs is that the green aspect can look a bit washed out.  I'm told that the remedy is stained glass paint although I haven't tried that.

As has been said, pretty much bomb proof and much more robust than the modern alternatives.

Keith

Alton.

On 05/04/2024 at 12:39, Marshall5 said:

According to Charlie Box's book (p44) "From 1905 to 1922 the L.O.R. original channel section conductor rails were left in position and used for traction return current in addition to the running rails".

Hope this helps.

Ray.

Looking at the photos, the centre rail was set rather low so I doubt that it was in contact with the trains.  More likely that it was simply bonded to the running rails to reduce the resistance of the traction current return path (as was done on some heavily-used sections of the Southern Electric in Kent).  If so, the trains would always have been third rail with running rail return.

Keith

Alton.

That's an interesting comment about a distant showing clear indicating that automatic token exchanging equipment was in use.  I wonder whether that was ever the practice in the UK?

Keith

Alton.

That’s the one. It was moved to the opposite platform when the present signal box was installed some years ago. 
 

Keith

Alton. 

There are examples of LSWR lamp huts on the Watercress Line at Ropley and Alton (ex-Itchen Abbas).  These are corrugated iron structures with arched roofs, not unlike the GWR type.  The hut at Ropley is seen in the photo below, which dates from 1922. Note the offset door.  

Medstead has a rendered lamp hut with a rearward-sloping corrugated iron roof, which dates from the 1920s.  This is definitely not a product of Exmouth Junction and I haven't seen another like it.

Image © Watercress Line Archives.

Keith

Alton.

Watch out for those teeth!

Keith

Alton.

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I am very familiar with the concept - but the OP is wishing to use a Pre-war setting, and I dispute they were at all common in them thar days. 

I think "cattle grids" at crossings only really came into use pre-War on third rail electrified lines.  There was particular issue with the Southern's 1938 Mid-Sussex scheme because it ran through a rural area and concern was raised in Parliament about the risk of livestock straying onto the line and being electrocuted.  At the 1937 SR annual meeting the chairman stated that on electrified lines cattle grids were provided at crossings to prevent cattle leaving the crossing.  (The implication being that on non-electrified lines they weren't.)

Incidentally the early cattle grids were arranged with the long side of the triangular section longitudinals facing down.  (This can be seen in contemporary photographs.)  I don't know how effective they were at deterring cattle and sheep but human trespassers could certainly walk over them.  The more recent arrangement, with the long side facing up, is much more effective.

Keith

Alton.

By chance last year I discovered the W H Smith branch in Newtown (Powys).  The sales floor downstairs uses old shop fittings and signage and upstairs is a museum illustrating the history of the company.  Well worth a look if you get the chance.

There was certainly something on station bookstalls, and typography, but I'm not sure about colour schemes.  

Keith

Alton.

I seem to have been pre-empted!

I confess I've never seen a Southern cast iron gents'.  

There is a copy of the BR(S) station painting scheme from 1949 (updated to 1960) in the wild, which is used by a number of heritage railways and which helpfully gives British Standard (BS) shade equivalents for the former Southern Railway station colours.  This shows examples of most structures but not a cast iron urinal.

In the circumstances my best guess is that it would be painted in the appropriate shade of green, i.e. SR no. 3 (BS381c/276 Lincoln Green) pre-War and SR no. 3A (BS381c/221 Brilliant Green) post-War and into BR days.  But I stand to be corrected...

Keith

Alton.

Very sorry to hear this.  I knew Nigel quite well some years ago when he was a fellow signalman at the Watercress Line.  (He looked a bit younger then.)  We worked for the same firm at one time although he was later TUPE'd out.  We had only met occasionally in recent years but it was always good to catch up.  He can't have been that old.

Keith

Alton.

20 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

The beige paint and screw holes match a BR mirror* that walked out of ( probably ) a 2HAP with me many yonks ago.

 

* reversed 'B' type

The frame is of the  type found latterly in Bulleid-type 4 Sub and EPB units with Formica decor.

Keith

Alton.

On 12/12/2023 at 17:12, The Johnster said:

I don't think Cromwell's act was much more than a tidying up of a status quo that had been in existence since the Edwardian Conquest in 1282

That's a fair point.  With the English dominant in Wales since the Edwardian conquest, naturally English would have become the de facto language of the ruling elite. However the 1535 Act codified this and formally imposed English law on Wales (and was deeply resented by the Welsh in consequence).  It did a number of other things as well, including giving the Welsh representation in the English Parliament.

Incidentally the term "Acts of Union" is a modern non-Statutory description of the Acts of 1535 and 1542.  (The latter wasn't Cromwell's as by that time he was no longer the man he used to be.)

Anyway, perhaps we should get back to the subject of the Central Wales line...

Keith

Alton (and sometimes Tywyn)

16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The language became stigmatised, by circumstances rather than by policy...

Actually, it was stigmatised by policy.  This goes back to Thomas Cromwell's Laws in Wales Act of 1535, which imposed English as the administrative and legal language of Wales. 

Keith

Alton.

Shade no. 2 isn't specified in the painting guide (white is white, I guess) but shade no. 3A (the post-War building green) is BS 381c shade 221 ("brilliant green").

Keith

Alton.

5 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

** I before E except after C unless its a loco designer...

And K!

Keith

Alton.

4 minutes ago, MarkC said:

It's actually the Glaisdale-Whitby section. Also, not only can Platform 2 be locked out, as you say, the sidings & associated loop are now only accessed from P2 as well.

 

It all seems to work quite well; sadly the cost of modifying the branch operation further, by splitting Glaisdale-Whitby into Glaisdale-Grosmont and Grosmont-Whitby, was too high to be justified.

 

Mark

Thanks.  I had forgotten that the section was from Glaisdale.

As you say, it seems to work well enough as it stands, and the cost will have been a whole lot less than the £3m I believe it cost for the signalling alterations needed to get Swanage Railway trains into Wareham.

Keith 

Alton.

20 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

On this point, does anyone know the specifics of the signalling changes needed for the NYMR to operate to Whitby? Also, I’m sure I read somewhere about a time when engineering work between Grosmont and Middlesbrough somewhere had closed the Esk Valley line, but the NYMR still ran to Whitby as that specific bit was OK.

The last time I visited the NR Whitby line was train crew operated Electric Key Token (from Nunthorpe I think) with an intermediate instrument at Grosmont in the Battersby-Whitby section and a ground frame unlocked by the token to allow NYMR trains to access the Whitby line. At Whitby the NYMR now has its own platform which allows its trains to "lock out" of the section.  This is accessed by another token-released ground frame.  Simple but effective.

Keith

Alton.

25 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

Unless I imagined it, there was a 'trailer' between programmes on the Beeb the other night saying that they're releasing a number of Classic Who series on iPlayer at around the same time as the 60th anniversary specials.  IIRC there was a Tom Baker one and a Peter Davidson, plus at least one other.  Or maybe I read it somewhere?  There is a brief mention of it in Digital Spy's announcement of the 60th anniversary specials (starting 1st November) so it seems it's not a complete figment of my imagination.

 

The whole of the "classic" series (already available to BritBox subscribers) is going onto iPlayer from 1st November, together with the "Doctor Who Confidential" programmes which accompanied early series of the rebooted version.  At the same time a lot of archive material will be going up on the BBC website. Sounds like fun!

Keith

Alton.

On 24/10/2023 at 20:37, Mallard60022 said:

Ages  ago someone was asking what the sign was on the east end of the Roof Canopy  of the Up Platform at Exeter Central in the 60s.

I found this on an Auction site today.

Apologies that it's years late!

Phil

 

So much for a "standard Southern Railway typeface".  The lettering styles are all over the place!

Keith

Alton.

11 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Lots of discussion about the prototype here - but am I the only one fitting Kadees, and puzzled to be finding that 18s are too short? They fit fine on other recent Rapido wagons, the SR opens and vans, for example, and the GW 4-plank open, but are too short on this. 19s might work - I don't haver any to hand - otherwise it's 20s. An odd thing to have changed. 

I have found that the Kernow LSWR road vans and the Rapido SR 8 plank Merchandise wagons (not the earlier SECR wagons), as well as the LMS D1666 opens, require Kadee no. 19s rather than my usual no. 18s.  So there does seem to be a trend emerging here.

The recent EFE LSWR vans (an excellent model, up there with the exquisite Rapido Iron Minks) go one step further as these require no. 20s and height adjustment, because they use stepped tension locks.  Fortunately I have a supply of 3D printed adapter pockets intended for earlier Bachmann wagons using stepped couplings, although these need to be cut down as the couplings supplied with the LSWR vans have a shallower step.

Keith

Alton.

11 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

You should look to history for inspiration, Dave.

At one point in British history (the early Georgian period if I recall correctly), bathing or washing oneself was considered to be deleterious to one’s health. Cleanliness came from wearing fresh linen (clothes) at least once or twice a day.

 

So, assuming that your washing machine is still working, all you need to do is change your clothes five times a day and you will be clean!

Wasn't it Queen Elizabeth the First who insisted on having a bath twice a year, whether she needed one or not?

Keith

Alton.