BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Dave, Yes my intention is to post a pic and quick round up on here whenever I update the main thread .. but i'll also post the odd bit on here that is in my other thread if that makes sense! Its nice to see the 3mm section coming to life! Richie

I agree with @bradfordbuffer, @TT100 Diesels you cant stop - the wargaming can wait :) Lol ... whatever you do enjoy it. I've been pushing on with my J50 build (at the usual snails pace) but its now had its first coat of primer. In an effort to try and encourage more people to look at 3mm, i've asked Andy Y to move my construction thread out of the 3mm section and into the main Kitbuidling / Scratchbuilding thread, so a full update can be found there (or here if you just want to click through!) Not a lot of progress, but a bit (well until I tipped the pot of Humbrol cement over ... I will not be popular if the fumes are still there in the morninig!! Never had the window open at midnight for 30 minutes before in March!) if anyone is interested. Richie

Morning all (he says shortly before heading to bed!) I promises some pictures, so this is where the J50 stands after its first 'waft' with primer... The primer showed up some of the issues with the white metal mouldings, so these have now been dealt with will filler - it now looks grey with pokadotted white spots! The plan is to give it another covering of primer tomorrow, and hopefully it should look quite a bit better. From a distance (ie normal viewing distance) it looks quite good I think. In the background can be seen the growing wagon fleet, one of the rear two has had its roof added tonight as well. So progress, slow progress, but progress all the same. I really want to push on with the J50 chassis however. Richie

Well where did March go to? Its just flying this year ... I need to find which button is the brake! Family life has once again taken over, I have just about got the diorama boards finished in 3D planning, so I am not far off getting them cut now. My current plan is that the CNC cutter can sort out the timbers for the paintwork at the same time. It may have slightly grown to another board that includes the yard throat! The J50 has been through the first stage of 'filler' process and had all the little gaps filled, following which it was given a light initial spray of grey undercoat and now looks very nice. No further on with the chassis, but hopefully soon that will progress. The High Level Kits gearbox and motor are here now, and I have got to have a trip to Lincoln soon, so the DCC (motor only at this stage) decoder and stay-alive will get picked at that point. Wagon wise, I am continuing with the kits, the's now another box van and I am part way through an LNER 20-ton coal wagon (the first of five I have to build). The body was a bit of a s*d to get together with all the angles, but I have got there. Then I lost the instructions, which didnt help as I couldn't work out where all the remaining angled bits went! Now found another instruction set so can get back on with that. Also start on construction of the first DG coupling for them this afternoon. Finally I am about 40% of the way through completing the drawings for a Mk1 SO vehicle, so I am hoping that together with the J50 chassis will go off for etching together and fill a sheet. I have followed the Comet principle of construction, but still need to give through to rolling the brass/nickle silver for the roof .... and more importantly how the roof will attach to the coach. Some pics of the J50 to follow this evening, once I the primer has dried. Richie

If it's any consolation Ian, I have missed my goal of actually getting to Kingsbury! I was hoping to go but family life has got in the way and work has decided to intercept on my hope (or was it expectation) of getting to the East Mids Area Group Bingham meeting in early April :( .... Like Thomas said .. I will get there, I will get there (.. one day soon). In terms of my own 3mm progress, I am still plodding onwards with my 3mm plastic wagon kits .. seems a bit simple after the superb 3D printing, modifiying and brass work on here lately. But hopefully will have some progress on my thread below on the J50 chassis soon. Im reasonably happy with the CAD drawings for the etches now, and the motor and gearbox from High Level Kits has arrived. Richie

@TT100 Diesels Oh my 'roundtuit' seems to change in size depending on workload! I have however made a bit of progress on the J50 chassis. For those of you wondering, yes I am aware that its possible to purchase a chassis from 3SMR for the J50, but I wanted to have a go at designing one myself for two reasons a) to learn and prove I could do it, and b) so that when i want to build a loco for which a chassis isnt available, I know I have the skill. I dont expect to get it right first time, but I am thinking ahead. I have got the rough outline sorted, and I've got a few Mitsumi 12v motors from Cambridge Custom Transfers which are (12mm x 15mm) and the motor fits within the white metal body, so I'm looking at using one of them. They have an 8000rpm, so through gearing I think it should be ok for the J50, especially with a brass flywheel on one end. I need to work out what options there are for gearing. I could use a High Level Kits gearbox, and may well do in the future, but again, I want to build the entire chassis, motor mount etc, so that I know I can design and deal with this. So the thought is that the worm off the motor will mesh with an ideler gear which will mesh with the gear on the rear driving axle. The axles at 1/8" inch on 3mm Society wheels, so I think the 2mm Association (of whom im also a member) gears will work as they are designed for 1/8" outside diameter axle muffs. I just need to establish how I work out what 'toothed' gears I need to give a steady 30mph top speed, which for ECS and shunting work should be ideal. Any advice would be welcomed. It is the first time i've worked with the Sheet Metal features of Fusion360. I'd tried to create this out of one piece of Nickle Silver that is half-etched on the inside fold lines and then folded into a U, but I am thinking as i want to spring the front two axles, that it will need to be two separate pieces with spacers to be solderer together in order to get the springing on the inside. The block on the top represents the motor, which will have to be positioned a bit higher than i expected within the cab, but still remaining out of sight from the cab area. I think the motor mount and gearbox sections will also need to be a separate piece folded together and possibly located using the axle of the rear driving wheels. Richie

Thanks @TT100 Diesels, The whole solebar fiasco was lack of knowledge on my part and i'll openly admit, probably a bit of a well its obvious where everything goes, I'll just build it rather than sitting and reading the instructions!! One of the society members has kindly sent me a couple of spare sprues, which arrived this morning and look at them, it is now blately obvious of the two different solebars. Moral of the story, read the instructions, look at the parts, wear the right glasses, and keep your Specsavers appointments up to date!!! 😉 I shall have a look at fitting the correct cast iron sole bars tonight. I did last night begin wagon kit No. 3, which is a 12-ton BR Vent Van that I had not realised has a similar underframe kit to the Mogo, so i'll be careful not to make the same mistake with that. My usual 20 minutes late evening of modelling is moving things on at a nice steady pace, although I still need some time to look at couplings! Interestly, I ended up with a day off work today - very rare for me on a Tuesday - but with little else needing to be done other than a swim at the local pool, I took two hours out, and opened the 3SMR J50 white metal body kit - another part of my Christmas Box from the family. What started out as this .... ... turned into this .... A few of the parts needed a bit of cleaning of flash, and a couple of areas will need further attention where the castings were pitted - the frame round cab door on one side will need to small plastikard replacement making. But overall i was really impressed with the though that had gone into the design. It was not time consuming or difficult to put together and the representation of a J50 looks very good in my eyes. Anyway at the end of the two hours, after a bit of fettling and several dry runs, the J50 body has been assembled with the help of some epoxy resin, and for a first white metal kit im really please. One minor mistake where i did not get the tank front and front end as neatly aligned as I thought I had, which unfortunatley was not seen until after the Aradite has set, but. its very minor and nothing that a small bit of filler will sort out. The big task now comes in designing the chassis, motor mount and DCC wiring loom for it - but im looking forward to that bit! So some unexpected modelling time and a really positive outcome.

Just to update readers, the issue with the Mogo Van being on an angle was initially traced to a problem with the wheelsets, this showed that the bearings were higher on one side than the other, but oddly the floor was level. A question posed on the 3mm Society Groups.io email list, led us to the answer. It transpieres that the underframe kit comes with both wooden and cast iron solebars. There are two spures for the underframe, both being identical. The aim is to use on solebar from each spure, not both solebars on one sprue, that I had done. Hence the Mogo had one wooden and one cast iron solebar, which was why it was lop-sided! Thanks to a kind member on there a spare sprue is being sent to me so that two cast iron solebars can be fitted (both have currently been removed from my model) to allow the wagon to sit level. My thanks to the Society Member concerned, you know who you are! Baseboard Quick update on the diorama baseboard shown above, hoping the design may go off to the CNC cutters end of this coming week or early the next, so we may be a couple of weeks away from the next update on here.

Michael, Can I ask what you use for making moulds and then what resin do you use for casting? Im going to 3D print some small detail parts, but as they will need cleaning and a bit of work, my idea was to use them as masters (once cleaned up and sorted) and resin cast the ones for the models. So any help would be welcome. Richie

Well I knew this thread would be slow and steady, but didnt quiet expect it to be snails pace! Things in life seem to take over very quickly and in some cases without you realising it. So to start with, here’s quick catchup and overview. Those that have read the thread will recall back in February last year I joined the 3mm Society ( a really good move, and recommended to anyone who has not done so but has a bit of an interest! ) and as part of the membership pack received a free wagon kit - a GWR Mogo in my case. Spurred on, I set about construction one evening, and pretty much built in over the next 90 minutes! I only had three things outstanding, couplings, wheels and replacing a broken buffer, where the moulding on the kit had cracked, nothing major. So we left the Mogo van in this condition.... (although the roof was not fixed on at this stage) For various reasons, things got put on hold last year, although I did start construction of a Gresley coach using Worsley Works etches, which ground to a halt (although I will get back to it), and after somewhat of a delay in them arriving, there is a Mk1 etch here as well, although I have decided that going forward, I am going to look at drawing my own Mk1 etches up for the coaches that I want, as I’ve more control of what happens and when. In mid-December last year, I finally got back into a bit of modelling as life started to calm down a bit, and acquired a 3mm scale LMS Brake Van kit from Cambrian Models. This was about half built but then I needed some wheels, and I did not get round to finishing. Cue Christmas and with the family undecided on what to buy me (read not got a clue!) I suggested some wagon kits from the 3mm Society and gave them a list of options from which they could chose, although being from the Society shop I needed to order them. I was nicely surprised when a list of what to buy came back, covering around 36 kits, together with the majority of wheels for them! Santa is a nice man :) So that brings us to February 2024, January being something of a write off with family health issues and work dominating proceedings. I have got into the habit of enjoy 20-30 minutes modelling each evening around midnight, when the house is quiet everyone else is asleep and I can relax without needing to think about things. A friend of mine recommends the little and often approach and finish each session with a clear idea of what your going to do next time. I have to say it does seem to work and works well. So job one was to put the wheels from Christmas into the Mogo Van. Fairly simple job, although somewhere I have gone slightly off with the van construction as I think the wheel are at a slightly angle. I cannot really see how as the frame sides to the kit seem to line up. But it was the first built, so I can accept the odd cock-up. Learn from it, inwardly digest and move on. I decreed the wagon was a bit on the light side, so I got acquired some led strip from eBay, and cut a piece about two inches long and glued to the inside of the van, before the roof was attached. Its definitely heavier now, but I suspect it didnt need two inches! Then to turn to the damaged buffer - the 3mm Society offer some white metal buffers that look very nice, a little bit of cleaning up and they are very good representations in my view. So a small hole for the shank to pass through and the buffer was fitted. Again, some ignorance on my side as to how the buffers from the kit fit means I think the buffer heads were pushed too far into the shank, with the result that they are all slightly different, and the new white metal one sits out a mm or two further than the plastic ones. As a result, tonight’s job is to remove the remaining three plastic buffers, and replace them with white metal ones, which I think will look better. Net result is the GWR Mogo, which will be outshopped in a 1950s appearance, is now just awaiting couplings before going into traffic. Although with no locos at the moment, that traffic isnt going to move far. Next I moved back to the LMS brake van. Now I am not sure what I did when I built this, but I managed to make a complete pigs ear of it. The sides were bending inwards, and end panels were at very odd angles. So, not being happy to leave it like that I spent quarter-of-an-hour and gently encouraged the various pieces to come apart, which they did fairly cleanly. Another 10 minutes was spent cleaning up the ends and removing the glue where I could before starting the rebuild. That was completed last night, the inner section of the van now looks far better being at 90 degree angles, an inch long piece of led strip was cut for the interior and glued in, the roof attached and yesterday morning, a 10-minute gap in things, allowed the van ends to be properly fixed in place, with the roof and vehicle floor as a guide. The pin-point bearings were then added and last night the sides mounted to the floor. Learning points here as well, as I think at some point the floor has warped ever so slightly (or was not flat to start with) as there is a slight gap between the frames and floor at one end. I am thinking a little bit of filler before painting will fix the ‘draws your eye to it’ problem. Wheels were added and are so free running I can’t quite believe it - running my finger across and letting them spin resulted in both axles revolving without any further interaction from me for around 39 seconds before stopping. Almost perpetual motion, but exactly whats needed at the end of the day. I am going to change the buffers for 3mm Society white metal ones again as I think they look better. So that brings us to where I am. Next task possibly this evening will be to look at how the automatic DG couplings fold up. I’ve acquired an etch and the various parts from Andrew at Wizard Models for 3mm, so some experimenting with mounting and heights will likely be needed next. After this I can pick one of the next kits out of the bag and make a start on that. Loco wise I have a white metal J50 tank body kit from 3SMR here to build. I am currently drawing up the chassis prior to having it etched. 3SMR can provide a chassis etch, but I want to prove to myself I can go it and get it right. The wheels were acquired from the 3mm Society as part of the Christmas Box, so I just need gears and motor to complete. But that construction is a little way ahead as I want to make sure the chassis works before starting on the body. I have also started work on a small A4 sized diorama, nothing complicated, just a couple of sidings set on an embankment, surrounded by trees. Something to be able to test my loco on when built, to run the wagons up and down and see how they ride, and to photograph the stock. Also a chance to try my hand at scenic modelling that I have not really done in many years! More on that coming up, but a sneak peak at the basic track layout and board design is below... As a diorama, it does not get much simpler! This is in essence two boards - Board A is just the double track running through scenary, (left half) while Board B is the double track, point and three sidings. (right hald). The board design (as it currently stands, unfinished) using 9mm birch ply for the outer base of Board B is included below: Hopefully the next update will not be that far off.

I do think its a bit of a slippery slope! Logically not that hard tho :) I've been thinking very hard about what I would like to achieve, as well as the time and space available .. I have to say personally im still sitting on the fence. Its something i'd love to have a go at, but i dont know if im trying to bite too much off. More time in the darkened room is required i think!

@drduncan Thanks. B2B and roller gauges shouldn’t be an issue. While I don’t have a lathe, I have access to a friends, so could run some gauges off. The more thought I put into this, the more I am perhaps coming down on the 4mm side. I need to try and fine some measurement details for bridge rail, but talking to a friend about this mad idea last night, he has around 100 metres of used but in very good condition Code 100 Oo gauge metre lengths that he no longer wants and says I am welcome to them. I have been wondering this morning if it may be feasible to strip the rail from the Peco sleepers, and then I think I could create a CAD design which I could get a local printing firm to 3D print for the baulk longitudinal sleepers, which fits around and hides most of the rail, just leaving the required top of the rail visible to resemble bridge rail. Some people would say you can’t do that as the rail head is the wrong shape, but I think it would be close enough to give the right impression from normal viewing distance. The other option may be to 3D print the rail and sleeper as one, and have the locomotives battery powered and fitted with radio controlled DCC, thereby not needing pickups, but still maintaining the constant control. I am just not sure 3D printing can yet give a good enough quality to look right and give smooth running - the other question is would it wear? As ever, much to mull over! Richie

@garethashenden Gareth, thanks for the push - i wouldnt have been so forward to ask!! @drduncan No, possibly not 100% set on 3mm. 7mm is out for me (I'd love to build a Finney7 Rover!) because of space, and diameter of curves etc. 4mm EM or P4 could well be an option, although I think the tollerances on P4 are OTT for my modelling, so if I went 4mm, most likely to EM. Im assuming 7' 1/4" works out at 28mm track width in broad gauge? I'll go back and look at Ian Smith's layout - Modbury is superb, I have been fortunate enough to see it and it is just wonderful. But i'll go back and read his thread on here. I certainly wouldnt want to put anyone to any trouble. I guess the first point of call is working out whether this whole mind wandering process is purely aspirational, or whether I could actually achieve something with it. Then if its the latter, is it a fictional location or a real one. Having watched the Canon's Road 7mm layout on YouTube, there is something rather attractive about a fictional London termini - but im off into my fantasy land again! I might just have to see if I can put the CAD plans together for a loco first, then decide on everything else later. I seem to recall somebody once modelle the inside of a roundhouse - the layout was almost a 'window into the world' kind of thing, just looking to the interior of the roundhouse. There was also a Gauge 1 layout that did the same kind of thing but looking into a diesel shed. Something like that would maybe, be different, attractive and location independent, especially in Broad Gauge? I can just imagine a couple of 'Rovers' sat around a turntable awaiting their next workings!! Food for thought anyway - thanks to everyone for their input, especailly to Duncan who has spurred me on (and possibly brought about a gauge change!). If I did decide to progress anything, would it be possible to get a wagon or two printed that you have already designed and produced Duncan? I'd happily reimburse you your resin/fillament costs and your time, but wouldnt want to detract from what your doing with your layout. Richie

Well this link answers my query about pits - yes they did exist! Also the turntable inwhat we would call a roundhouse had a timber covering, according to information from the 21st Century Crossrail project - https://www.thisispaddington.com/article/brunels-great-western-railway-revealed Richie

@corneliuslundie @MikeOxon Chaps, thanks. Yes I am aware of the BGS - as I mentioned, I am a former member and have (somewhere) a physical copy of their drawings book/collection of papers. If I presume this thought at all, I really must renew my membership as I always found the Broadsheet magazine very interesting. @drduncan Thanks also for your response. It is one of the things I am coming to really like about rmWeb and Western Thunder - the sharing of information and advice/thoughts from people. It’s one reason I posted this thread, the different viewpoints are invaluable in shaping knowledge and skills. Ive sat and read your thread this morning, fascinating. I also love the work that your friend @garethashenden has done on that Buffalo tank. Superb. It makes me wonder whether stepping to one of the finescale scales maybe the way forward. I must admit the Buffalo and 2-4-0T Metro style tanks in Broad Gauge look as nice as the Iron Duke and Rover Class locos! I am full of admiration for your mixed gauge trackwork - that could be one step too far for me lol! All of this makes me think about having a go at some initial small diorama, perhaps something loosely based around Westbourne Park Engine House could be interesting and would give a suitable backdrop to photograph the models against, while not being extravagant in relation to baulk road trackwork, although I wonder if the trackwork was different in shed areas where the fires would be dropped … did they have pits in the late 1880s? I am thinking the later period of Broad Gauge would for me be best, offering a little more variety.