shreds

Today's newsletter brings bad news on HSDT project. It has been paused due to the rise in exchange rates causing increased costs

 

Not cancelled by any means but just not coming soon

A very big negative after the build up.

Had been looking forwards to this and this is a h..u..g..e disappointment. Not interested in buses or railbuses at all. 

This is the wear on the decal I was talking about, and the power car has not been overly handledimage.jpeg

Doesn't it to some extent depends what was on your hands at the time?

Using a pair of lint free gloves helps avoid marking.

Do you mean P4?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Actually P4 is not broad gauge, its exactly 4' 8.5" scaled down.

In reality 00 is an incorrect narrow gauge for 4mm scale modelling. ~ compromise for 4mm scale to match the continental 3.5mm to the inch standard of H0. 

Put the two side by side and you will never look at 00 as being correct ever again with 4mm models. 

I know that they were still being sold through to the mid seventies, but wasn't the E Type Jag really of the 1960's, think of Patrick McNee, Bond, Rolling Stones, Beetles, Twiggy, Mary Quant, Brigitte Bardot,  etc etc. I know the roots of the APT-E and HST are also rooted in that earlier era. 

Nevertheless, I do agree it was a golden age of British World class leading design from the UK. 

The point was about passenger comfort, specifically not spilling coffee. Tilt sickness was explained. All this very briefly - it wasn't Open University after all.

 

I wonder how broad gauge would have affected BR's approach to speed and comfort. Presumably lower centre of gravity would be possible allowing for higher cornering speeds at the cost of passenger comfort.

Yeah, but just think of the size of the sofas you could have lounged on, in a broad gauge carriage. 

Pretty much yes, but E-Train was a lot lower than the HSTs and thus the exhaust bulges could be taller without infringing the C1 gauge limits. The bulges helped lift the exhaust flow clear of the E-Train's roof and so it didn't get as dirty as the HST's were.

 

Being a gas turbine exhaust it had different characteristics to a diesel exhaust, perhaps it was hotter so less heavy and dirty combustion products remained?

 

The situation is graphically shown in one of the Swindon August '75 pics below, the 252 set's roof is black whereas E-Train's is only slightly smoky.

 

Diesel particulates always carry more soot, whereas look at an aircraft, yes there will be staining, but it will not be anything like as extreme. 

Plus remember the E Train was cosseted, did relatively short runs and was well looked after, it was not really a working network train.

I am sure Mr Tilt could even name the cleaners that looked after it!

......can't be at York today, but silently thinking about York and the APT-E anniversary today at 10:48

Remarkably similar to the ugly ill fated Gat Ex units too.

That's the one.

 

There's a Youtube vid of it, but all you can see is the rocket exhaust and the impact explosion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5bPu58fSc0

 

Not exactly a thing of beauty, is it?

 

Thunderbird 1 strapped to a ZZA Independent Snowplough perhaps.....

Hi all,

 

While I have enormous respect for the work done at the RTC I think it would be hard to turn back the clock and recreate it.

 

Nowadays, in motoring, railways and aviation, research is done by the vehicle manufacturers, not the customers.  Their incentive is the commercial advantage they have with superior products, in a market place where the customer is free to choose.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

In those days BR was customer, manufacturer and researcher. As you say, the world has moved on (not necessarily for the better). 

How expensive would it have been to open the doors in the buffet/bar coach of the APT-P on a curve and save the country from years of pointless journalistic drivel?

APT-P would now be being exported worldwide, Derby would be the centre of the UK rail transport industry and we would have to address Sir Kit, possibly as 'Your 'tilt-ness' 

Her Majesty would no doubt have said, 'Arise Sir Kit, but only to a 9 degree slant'

At least the "King Arthur" is painted green even if it has become an 2-0-2 and the cab takes up the entire vehicle.

But does it have a concealed tilt mechanism?

Hattons have even listed it as an HST!

http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/3155952/1000588/1000675/0/_/prodlist.aspx

Well, I suppose it is a 'high speed train', it even goes faster than a standard HST. 

Given that Hattons' have misdescribed/photographed a King Arthur class loco, it is forgivable I suppose. 

Plus Sandra might want a pay rise to be inundated with hundreds more crank enquiries.

That will push the costs up significantly. 

I'm hoping if a deposit is needed like with APT-E, then I'm hoping they don't want £50 for every vehicle up front, 8 coaches upfront is a fair wack of cash if they follow the same ordering method as the apt.

I will undoubtedly do the same for the HST as I did for my 'fictional' APT-Es, so bring it on.

But ensure it is as accurate as possible.

Thank you, Good little task to do but I do agree the lighting is the only issue I had, Not that I don't like the lights on, Just a bit to bright for me.

 

 

But if you install reflective windows "JLTRT", then the lights will be barely perceptible from the outside, hopefully.

I once went to a BR talk at Derby given by the Head of Surface Coatings. 

Since that day I have grown to realise that so many factors contribute to what we 'see' that you could question hundreds of people and the perception of the colour would differ. And that is before we get to subjects such as the primer or base coats. 

The APT-P has appeared to have a black/brown/green/grey tinge to the dark coloured window band at different times in its life and so the quality and direction of the light on the surface and its reflectivity will also play a part too. 

Stratford Depot 'silver' roofs may have been on the first couple, but it is widely acknowledged to be 'unfitted wagon grey'.

Fast forward to today....go and look at Caledonian Sleeper 'Midnight Teal' which varies from blue to black to green dependent upon the weather and light conditions. Sure, it is possible to use a Spectrometer such as this..

https://www.calphoto.co.uk/product/Sekonic-Spectromaster-C-700-Meter/335-538A?gclid=CPyB0NWl0MwCFbYK0wodAcIAFQ

which will give you an accurate reading of the colour of the paint, but thats not to say it will not vary when the weather and environmental pollution have been in play for a year or two, and thats without taking it through the washer, which also has a significant effect on the paintwork. 

These seem to be getting further into fiction territory. I can ignore the fictional liveries, but the buffers were significant. At these prices I do not want to retrofit and would rather have had a slightly more pricey original.

So like some of the funding 'dragons' often say...."I am out".

Martin,

Some interesting and very pertinent points.

I will declare that the quality issue is more important than anything else and heartily congratulate Jason and his team on upping the bar, but keeping prices reasonable.

This drive to quality has actually been a climb upwards over the past 50+ years. There have been some notable slips and the whole output has been a bit of a game of snakes and ladders all be it all generally in an upward direction.

Those manufacturers who dont listen or dont learn, certainly dont get my custom. It is so disapointing that some have produced excellent models and then released a couple of 'dogs'.

So what next? Well with Rapido and some others making very accurate prototype models, the need to tighten up wheel and track standards has to be the next direction, otherwise things like out of scale wheels cause problems with brake block alignment and other matters. I loathe looking at 'narrow guage' looking track against a fine scale model.

There will be those who say it cannot and should not be done. Well just think back to Triang Hornby System Four and Super Six or whatever the marketing mens terms were for coarse scale and slightly finer scale track was in the 1960/70's.

It is high time that 1:76.2 scale was exactly that not just in the models and accessories but also in track guage and wheel standards.

And before anyone says that is too big a task, just look at Jim Smith-Wright's seminal Birmingham New Street in P4 and say you are not impressed.

With Rapido and others making their models ready to accept higher standards, then it is down to the modellers to up their game too, rather than simply playing trains. These are no longer toys, they are masterpieces and deserve much better layouts to run on.

I for one am taking up that challenge and suggest you ask yourself whether your models deserve better standards.

With 8500hp, I think you would've broken the test track.

 

Cheers,

Mick

I thought they tried once getting into Nottingham from Edwalton by driving the E Train into rather a lot of foam, to test its 'stoppability'. 

With that amount of power you might have landed in the middle of Trent Bridge Cricket Ground. 

My two versions of the APT-E were finally delivered this morning by UPS.

What a truly unbelievable model to behold.

One to sit in the display cabinet, the other to be utilised on a purpose built layout, to P4 standards. 

As I investigated creating a scratch built APT-E in the late 1990s, but gave up after studying scale drawings from Paul L at the complexity of the compound body curves. So this is truly a remarkable day.

My huge thanks go out to:-

Locomotion (Sandra, how do you cope with so many cranks?),

Jason & Bill, for having the vision and foresight to go with this particular NCIM as your first venture into the UK market (I will be toasting the APT-E with Blue label Portwood Penderyn), 

Paul Leadley and all the many many others involved in this project,

but a special thanks is reserved for Kit; Mr Tilt, for providing a continuous running commentary and authoritative opinion on all matters to do with the E train, as well as being there in the beginning. 

I am forever in your debt for creating such a thing of beauty. 

Gentlemen and ladies....take a bow.

Don't publishers have "ghost" writers who can translate your words into a volume!

I would order a copy. Now!

Funnily enough I was thinking about this the other week. Was E Train allocated a Class and/or individual car numbers even if not signwrtitten to the vehicle(s)?

As Mr Tilt says (and he should know!) It was just:- APT-E - PC1,TC1, TC2, PC2.

No computerisation of numbers in those days, BR was just getting to grips with the UK variant of the US inspired TOPS. Classification of locos into classes surfaced around 1971 (although it might have been suggested earlier), and came into effect in 1973, with the first classes carrying new numbers in the late spring/early summer of that year.

There wasn't and still isn't a category for gas turbine locos.

And at that time TOPS was largely for wagons, as they were finding stuff from years ago to be either hidden/missing/scrapped or stuck at the end of a disconnected siding.

Interesting reading. 

Lets just say that a new layout is being constructed to accommodate the APT-E in all its glory, rather than trying to fit it on a Hornby circle of track

Hi all,

 

Bill and I are actually meeting with the NRM tomorrow to discuss our options for the HSDT.

 

I would like to be able to offer the coaches as well, but it has to make economic sense for us to do it.

 

My guess is it will be some months before the official announcement with product numbers and pricing, but I may be wrong...  

 

One thing though. We don't make dummies. While I normally say "never say never," I am pretty sure we will never produce a dummy locomotive again. We did it once - what a mistake. They cost us exactly $6 less than a powered locomotive. That's the cost of the motor. All other costs are the same. 

 

So all of our Class 41s will be powered. Sorry if that hurts your bank balance! 

 

-Jason

Don't apologise for not compromising, two powered power cars are what I envisaged anyway. Especially if a full complement of coaches can be assimilated too.

Good luck....can I place my order today?