Lochinvar

Not quite what the OP had in mind but this creates an opportunity for a grouse about frequent references to Edinburgh (Princess St.),sometimes by those (including journos) who ought to know better. Glad I got that off my chest!

DR

As I understand it - and with the exception of the "Tesco" - DRS have withdrawn from the Anglo-Scottish intermodal market. They ended their long-standing relationship with Malcolms,whose business is now with DB. They also decided - for whatever reason - that they were not interested in renewing their contract with Russells. The latter development might not be too visible at the moment because of the disruption on the WCML in Scotland,but all the ex-DRS Daventry - Coatbridge traffic is now with Freightliner. (This should suit Freightliner nicely since - as already mentioned - they have been quite badly affected by the reduction in the coal business.

DR

I fear that attempting to tie all the workings down may be even more difficult than you imagine,John. Through correspondence with Harry Knox,it has become clear that crew rostering,on the one hand,and loco. rostering,on the other,were not always the same. As you say,Harry lists the 3.XXpm up ex-Perth as a 64B working but it was quite definitely 63A that provided the loco. in the period covered by his book. (And,if I had a fiver for every time I saw 44720 or 44721 on that train,I might have been able to buy one,or both,of them on withdrawal!).

As for the 6.40 up ex-Perth,I suspect that the "Princess" working referred to by our 62C correspondent might not have been a "one-off". Early in 1962 I was commuting daily across the Forth in a service provided by the Admiralty (as it then was) for staff working at Rosyth Dockyard. Our N-bound crossing often co-incided with the 06.40 as it made its way up on to the Forth Bridge. Even from a distance,it was possible to make out the loco. type (though I wasn't close or expert enough to distinguish between a Scot and a Rebuilt Patriot). I can recall seeing a "Princess",but cannot now say whether it was only once.

We've sure breathed some life into this thread!

DR

I don’t have a 1951 timetable but perusal of the 1950 Summer Timetable shows the services to be similar in nature.

 

The Glasgow services ran via the Devon Valley line via Kinross Junction to Alloaa and from there via the "other Forth Bridge" to Larbert.  Being ex NBR / LNER services, they normally ran to and from Glasgow Queen Street, although this was not always the case in BR days.

 

The Inverness services generally divided at Aviemore with one portion going via Carr Bridge and the other via Forres.  Similarly, the up services tended to join at Aviemore and, given that the Forres services left Inverness earlier this translated into four daytime departures from Inverness becoming two arrivals in Edinburgh.

 

I’m not sure of the train formations circa 1951 but in the later 1950s / early 1960s Edinburgh – Inverness trains generally carried three portions in the winter (Inverness via Carr Bridge, Inverness via Forres and a Perth portion) or two in summer (Inverness via Carr Bridge and Inverness via Forres).  The busier trains ran as separate trains for each route.

 

The summer 1950 timetable shows that the 9.25am Edinburgh – Inverness conveyed a restaurant car to Aviemore only.  Similarly, the 3.20pm ex Inverness carried a restaurant car from Aviemore, perhaps the same vehicle.

 

It should also be pointed out that the Inverness – Edinburgh service predated  the formation of the LMS and as such the Highland tended to hand over its Edinburgh portions to the North British at Perth and the Glasgow portions to the Caledonian.  Because of subsequent developments, there seems to be a misconception in some quarters that the Inverness - Edinburgh services ran to Princes Street via the Caledonian / LMS route through Gleneagles and Stirling.

 

The overnight service to and from Inverness ran from both originating points on Mondays to Friday nights only.  On Saturday nights the down train still ran from Edinburgh but only as far as Perth.  Sleeping cars were not introduced onto this service until June 1959.

 

Having grown up in Dunfermline I was lucky enough to travel over this line on a number of occasions as a child and have had a life long interest in it.  Information is sparse or difficult to get hold of.  I can only assume that the dearth of views of DP2 or Deltics working the car carriers in 1966 is due to the competition arising from the use of A4s on the nearby Glasgow – Aberdeen service, perhaps even a total disinterest in diesels.  Similarly the Duchesses and other ex LMS motive power on the morning Perth – Edinburgh service in the early 1960s were probably too early in the morning for anyone to be up in time to get a shot.

 

The Signalling Record Society photographic collection contains a number of views of the signal cabins along the route.  I believe these are available from the Kidderminster Railway Museum but, in spite of four enquiries, I have so far failed to obtain copies of any of these views.  The KRM webpage also features views of Loch Leven, Kelty and Cowdenbeath North Junction.  If you click on the “Mystery Photographs” page there is a link in the sentence “You can see previous pictures for which we now have answers by clicking here”.  Attempts to obtain copies of these views have similarly failed…..     …..in spite of the fact that it was me who identified the locations!  I also wonder if they have any other views that have not yet been identified.

 

The North British Railway Study Group have recently put a lot of their archive on line and they have views of all of the stations on the line.  It is my intention to obtain copies of some of these but I have not yet investigated how I go about this.  You need to be a member to view these images online.

 

About a year ago I bid on a photograph on eBay of the yards at Kelty.  Such views are so rate that my bid in excess of £20 failed to secure the said photograph!

 

The National Archives of Scotland hold quite a number of plans and other documentation relating to the line and this has been the source of most of my information.

 

Attached are a few images, from negatives I acquired on eBay.  The station is Glenfarg, obviously after closure of the line.  All of the intermediate stations with the exception of Kinross Junction were closed by Beeching in 1964.  However, closure of the through line was not part of the Beeching cuts.  This has already been covered earlier in this thread.

 

The train is the last V2 special of 5^th November 1966 and the views were supposedly taken somewhere between Mawcarse and Glenfarg.  If anyone can identify the exact locations I would be most grateful.  I suspect they might be two different locations as both lines are laid in flat bottom rail in the top view but the nearest line in the lower view has bullhead rail.  Also, the background in the upper view looks like the North Set to me!  The road vehicles in the first view should help.  I did not travel on this train but my late father did and we met him off the train at Inverkeithing on the return trip.  I remember the occasion well.  How could I not?  Fortunately, it had been such a success that a similar tour was run with 61278 the following month from Edinburgh to Carlisle out via Bathgate and back over the Waverley Route.  I’m glad to say I was on that tour and, when I get around to doing some modelling, both 61278 and 60836 will be traversing the Glenfarg line once again!

 

I don’t have a 1951 timetable but perusal of the 1950 Summer Timetable shows the services to be similar in nature.

 

The Glasgow services ran via the Devon Valley line via Kinross Junction to Alloaa and from there via the "other Forth Bridge" to Larbert.  Being ex NBR / LNER services, they normally ran to and from Glasgow Queen Street, although this was not always the case in BR days.

 

The Inverness services generally divided at Aviemore with one portion going via Carr Bridge and the other via Forres.  Similarly, the up services tended to join at Aviemore and, given that the Forres services left Inverness earlier this translated into four daytime departures from Inverness becoming two arrivals in Edinburgh.

 

I’m not sure of the train formations circa 1951 but in the later 1950s / early 1960s Edinburgh – Inverness trains generally carried three portions in the winter (Inverness via Carr Bridge, Inverness via Forres and a Perth portion) or two in summer (Inverness via Carr Bridge and Inverness via Forres).  The busier trains ran as separate trains for each route.

 

The summer 1950 timetable shows that the 9.25am Edinburgh – Inverness conveyed a restaurant car to Aviemore only.  Similarly, the 3.20pm ex Inverness carried a restaurant car from Aviemore, perhaps the same vehicle.

 

It should also be pointed out that the Inverness – Edinburgh service predated  the formation of the LMS and as such the Highland tended to hand over its Edinburgh portions to the North British at Perth and the Glasgow portions to the Caledonian.  Because of subsequent developments, there seems to be a misconception in some quarters that the Inverness - Edinburgh services ran to Princes Street via the Caledonian / LMS route through Gleneagles and Stirling.

 

The overnight service to and from Inverness ran from both originating points on Mondays to Friday nights only.  On Saturday nights the down train still ran from Edinburgh but only as far as Perth.  Sleeping cars were not introduced onto this service until June 1959.

 

Having grown up in Dunfermline I was lucky enough to travel over this line on a number of occasions as a child and have had a life long interest in it.  Information is sparse or difficult to get hold of.  I can only assume that the dearth of views of DP2 or Deltics working the car carriers in 1966 is due to the competition arising from the use of A4s on the nearby Glasgow – Aberdeen service, perhaps even a total disinterest in diesels.  Similarly the Duchesses and other ex LMS motive power on the morning Perth – Edinburgh service in the early 1960s were probably too early in the morning for anyone to be up in time to get a shot.

 

The Signalling Record Society photographic collection contains a number of views of the signal cabins along the route.  I believe these are available from the Kidderminster Railway Museum but, in spite of four enquiries, I have so far failed to obtain copies of any of these views.  The KRM webpage also features views of Loch Leven, Kelty and Cowdenbeath North Junction.  If you click on the “Mystery Photographs” page there is a link in the sentence “You can see previous pictures for which we now have answers by clicking here”.  Attempts to obtain copies of these views have similarly failed…..     …..in spite of the fact that it was me who identified the locations!  I also wonder if they have any other views that have not yet been identified.

 

The North British Railway Study Group have recently put a lot of their archive on line and they have views of all of the stations on the line.  It is my intention to obtain copies of some of these but I have not yet investigated how I go about this.  You need to be a member to view these images online.

 

About a year ago I bid on a photograph on eBay of the yards at Kelty.  Such views are so rate that my bid in excess of £20 failed to secure the said photograph!

 

The National Archives of Scotland hold quite a number of plans and other documentation relating to the line and this has been the source of most of my information.

 

Attached are a few images, from negatives I acquired on eBay.  The station is Glenfarg, obviously after closure of the line.  All of the intermediate stations with the exception of Kinross Junction were closed by Beeching in 1964.  However, closure of the through line was not part of the Beeching cuts.  This has already been covered earlier in this thread.

 

The train is the last V2 special of 5^th November 1966 and the views were supposedly taken somewhere between Mawcarse and Glenfarg.  If anyone can identify the exact locations I would be most grateful.  I suspect they might be two different locations as both lines are laid in flat bottom rail in the top view but the nearest line in the lower view has bullhead rail.  Also, the background in the upper view looks like the North Set to me!  The road vehicles in the first view should help.  I did not travel on this train but my late father did and we met him off the train at Inverkeithing on the return trip.  I remember the occasion well.  How could I not?  Fortunately, it had been such a success that a similar tour was run with 61278 the following month from Edinburgh to Carlisle out via Bathgate and back over the Waverley Route.  I’m glad to say I was on that tour and, when I get around to doing some modelling, both 61278 and 60836 will be traversing the Glenfarg line once again!

 I think you're right to have your doubts about the first of the V2 shots. The location bears a remarkable resemblance to the stretch S of Aberdeen - Cove,perhaps?

The morning Perth - Edinburgh train had been firmly in the grip of 63A Black 5s (and Jubilees) until the arrival of the Kingmoor Duchesses etc around 1960. The train would have been through Dunfermline (Lower) about 0730,I guess,with the loco generally returning with the 1012 ex-Wav (TC for I'ness).

DR

I've just noticed that the total contribution to this thread in 2015 was 1 post.  This line, along with probably the Strathmore route, must have be the most ignored main lines on the whole of the BR network. I have long suspected that most photographs taken in Scotland during the steam era were taken by tourists who did "the circuit"; Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness, Perth, Glasgow, home. Its amazing that there seems to be enough information and photos of some obscure branch line elsewhere to write books, in fact there is enough stuff on certain 'celebrity' lines like the S&D to fill a library, yet our basic main line system has large elements that are barely noticed. I'm sure that if it wasn't for the A4's in their last couple of years, that most people wouldn't know the Strathmore line even existed. In fact many of the photographs taken of trains for this route were actually taken beyond either end, which though does at least gives us some clues about the trains. There doesn't seem to be even that level of information on the Glenfarg route.

 

I have attached a file with what I believe was the passenger services for the early 50's. I'm happy to receive any feedback, corrections or further details. In fact any further information at all on this line would, I suspect, be welcomed by those with an interest.

 

J

No shortage of photographs of the Glenfarg route by WJVA. Judging by the volume of published stuff,you could be forgiven for thinking that he was almost permanently resident in the Mawcarse area in particular. Beyond his esteemed efforts,I can't think immediately of others,I have to admit.

DR

IMG_4182 might be the Eden Valley loop,S of Penrith -  or perhaps Plumpton Loop,N of Penrith?

DR

Yes,agree. Aviemore South,with the old A9 running along on the left.

DR

It's being reported on a couple of gen sites that Colas has ordered a further 7 new class 70s.

That Colas might have a need to augment their loco. pool is no surprise. They have been adding to their portfolio of haulage contracts  - recently displacing DB on most of the Inneos (ex-BP) work out of Grangemouth,for example. And they are being tipped widely to be on the point of taking over from FHH on the cement traffic out of Oxwellmains (typically 2 trains a day).

 DR

Newtonmore,at a guess.

DR

This is splendid news for those who have been so persistent in arguing the case for the Q6. Hopefully, all them Geordies,Mackems and other adherents of NER stuff will buy this in the quantities required for commercial success. My motives in wishing the Q6 well are partly ulterior. If - if - this announcement has been influenced by wish-list polling,and the sales do well, it offers some encouragement to those of us who wish to see some attention being given to Scottish pre-grouping types. But,as I have commented before, we first have to agree on which particular loco. we want as a first step. Continuing to spraying our votes around a whole host of desirable classes will only lead to disappointment.  So,is it the J36 or the 812 class??

DR

...with patches cleaned enough to show the important bits of the lettering, and chalk markings all over with mis-spelled place names like Lester and Gloster.

It was 'edinboro' that caused maximum offence in these parts.!

Perhaps Bachmann are exploring the point at which consumer price resistance sets in. From the comments so far,they're about to find out!

This episode underlines yet again the utter nonsense of manufacturers attempting to attach a price to items which,with the best will in the world, are not going to see the light of day for yonks ahead. There are simply too many "known unknows"  for that practice to have credibility.

DR

My BTK has arrived. Following the insertion of bogie spacers "a la coachman" it has now been coupled up to a similarly-modified CK. Using Roco 40270 close-couplers on both brings the gangways more or less into contact,while allowing negotiation of the curved area of a  Peco double-slip without buffer-lock. (The close-couplers supplied by Bachmann - which produce satisfactory results on their Mk 1s - are quite useless with the "Portholes",since they leave the gangways miles apart).

DR

No sir.....I was referring to the recently released 39-460 Brake 3rds. ( I assumed that, since I had hit the "Reply quoting this post" button on "rembrow"s posting above,that would have been clear. Seemingly not. Sorry to have unintentionally raised your hopes.

DR

A large retailer based in So. Yorks has just got some in too.

DR

Ah,the powerful influence of RMWeb! Only a few days after a few grumbles about timescales,some long-awaited items reach our shores. Not a coincidence,surely?!

Looking forward to receiving my "Porthole" Bk 3rd - assuming,of course, that it's free of the faults that caused Bachmann's two previous rejections. I already have the bogie spacers ready to correct the assumed ride height problem. The intention was (and almost certainly still is) that it should replace a Bachmann Mk 1  - though the formation in question does look quite convincing the way it is.

DR

Dave

I thought that this would have generated more by way of comment,as I'm sure other members are better qualified to advise. But I might have added that unless there is some evidence to the contrary,a reasonable assumption would be that 72008 did not run with AWS in the old-emblem era. So you would need to remove the AWS battery-box fitted to the RH side of the running plate (itiris this came already fitted rather than as part of the accessory kit).

Sorry,can't help with the speedo. But,again,we tend to associate these with the Clans in the later part of their (grievously short) lives.

hth

DR

And I see from the Bachmann website that release of the elusive "porthole" Bk 3rd coach seems to be slipping again.  What until recently was shown as April/May has now changed to May/June. But shouldn't be far away now...should it??

DR

Dave

As ever,and assuming that you wish to retain the present 72008 identity,you need to search for photos. of the loco at your chosen point in time. I'm reasonably sure,however,that you will need to remove (or not fit) the AWS "bang-plate".

DR

My trio (3rd/Comp/Bk.3rd) has now been formed up into a permanent set using close-couplers. The use of a Roco 40270/Hornby combination between the 3rd and the Comp. achieves buffer-to-buffer contact,without any hint of buffer-lock as they pass over the curved section of a Peco double-slip, the tightest radius on the layout. A different story between the Comp. and the Bk.3rd,however. To eliminate buffer-lock,it has been necessary to fit Hornbys to both those coaches,at the expense of a modest separation between the buffers. The overall result is still pretty satisfactory,methinks.

DR

We seem to veered off-topic a tad here. Suggest,Mods,either dropping "Hornby" from the heading of this thread,or creating one separately for discussing the merits,or otherwise,of the Airfix/Dapol offerings.

DR

Thanks indeed for sharing these images with us,Robert.  Despite Hornby's use of the description "maroon" (and the quite heavy maroon depicted on their web-site) the colour shade is more or less what I expected when I took the plunge with a pre-order.  As has already been remarked here,it should suit those of us who set their layouts in the 50s.

I'll be looking out for the postie bearing goodies ex-Sheffield (although the retailer in question doesn't seem to have them in stock yet......if their web-site is to be relied on).

DR

The arrival of these entirely-new coaches so soon after they were first revealed last November is an astonishing departure from what we have come to expect in recent years. Really looking forward to receiving those that I had ordered in the belief that we wouldn't be seeing them until Sept. They should "look the part" behind a Fairburn or Standard 2-6-4T (or a whole number of other locos,for that matter).

DR

The Hornby web-site "expected" date for both LMS and BR versions has now been advanced from 1 Sept to 18 June.

DR

Hornby had what were presumably pre-production samples of both LMS and BR versions on display on their stand at the AMRSS show this weekend - and jolly attractive they looked,too. It is beginning to look as if we might be seeing a release earlier than the present official date of 1 Sept.  Some retailers are now quoting prices (RRP=£40.25). And Model Railways Direct are now saying 21 Jun. The Hornby guys on the stand said that it could even be as early as March.

DR