davefreight

Is it absolutely certain that loads never go north to Dounreay any more.  At one time they certainly did since the RN had/have a testing facility there.

Sodium tripolyphosphate was loaded by Albright & Wilson at Corkickle, not discharged there.

Davefreight

The Crewe BH to Runcorn Folly Lane trip is still a fairly regular runner and I believe ran today.  Formerly operated by DB it is now a Freightliner job.  The traffic, in tank containers, comprises caustic soda from Runcorn to customers in the Scottish Lowlands.  The Castner-Kellner chemical complex at Runcorn has been producing caustic soda since the nineteenth century.

From old TOPS records known loading points for these grain vans when in main line use were Mistley and Ipswich, both RW Paul at Ipswich Docks and Ipswich Maltings at Ipswich Griffen Wharf, but there could have been other loading points in East Anglia.  I have a notion that by 1976 they were lettered 'To Work Between Eastern Region and Burton-on-Trent'.  In all these flows to Burton they worked alongside similar BR Grain Vans.

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:06, Fat Controller said:

You have to ask; Why was there an Interfrigo van at Peak Forest in mid-winter?

According to TOPS they were carrying "milk products" from the Continent to Buxton Freight Depot.

Apologies if already asked, but would a train be all Nitrogen or Oxygen, or could a trainload consist of both ? (Running empty perhaps ?) or would this be considered a risk ? Seeing the wagons labelled I assume immediately precludes dual use of the wagon (Nitrogen today, Oxygen tomorrow)

 

Apologies for the really stupid question, but i know nothing of gasses, but Oxygen... isnt that just a trainload of fresh air being moved about ? - were these pressure vessels ? (Recognising you can store gas without excess pressure as a container ). Chemistry wasnt my career.

When working to the company's distribution depots the BOC block trains often featured mixed consists, some of the tanks loaded liquid oxygen and others liquid nitrogen.  However, flows for a specific purpose would be confined to one or the other; eg. nitrogen to Falmouth for ship storage tank purging or to Inverness for fruit packaging, while Corby and Sheerness received oxygen.

A few additions to all the above.

By the mid 1980's the Tarmac (ex Amasco) terminal at Pendleton was served by either the 'Super Train' formation (mixed Peakstone, ex Staveley, PGA's and Tarmac 149xx PGA's) or by a shorter rake comprising just TAMC 149xx's.  Prior to that the earlier Tarmac 146xx PGA batch did the job before they left the Peak District for Cliff Hill.

I'm not aware that the few 'Baby Salts' based at Dove Holes Quarry worked in the Salford Hope St. circuit but another type which did were the Cadoux built Tiger PBA's 135xx batch sans top covers.  They would appear in mixed rakes with bogie Tiphook PIA and RMC PHA hoppers, although from memory such mixed rakes didn't last for long.

The replacement PGA's mentioned as taking over from the ICI PHV's were those allocated to the Tunstead to Northwich circuit.  As far as I'm aware they never troubled the Miles Platting to Dean Lane metals.

David

The Ian Allan Locoshed 1976 Edition (with LMR allocations correct to 8/11/1975) lists fourteen class 50s allocated to Crewe Diesel.

Nos 50006 50008 50010 50012 50017 50022 50029 50031 50034 50035 50036 50040 50041 50045.

 

They were all transferred to the WR (Laira) before the next 1977 edition came out, (with allocations correct to 27/11/1976).

 

cheers

I've no idea whether all had officially been transferred but a Class 50 appeared on the early afternoon Manchester Victoria to Preston portion of the Liverpool/Manchester to Glasgow working as late as May 1977.  I recall being hauled by one on my way to an interview in Lancaster that month, and with just four coaches it was a sprightly run.  Unfortunately though it was before I began taking photos.

Thank you but beer keg loaded on VDA ?

Yes, VDA's were used for the Guinness traffic from Park Royal before being replaced by VGA's.

I was given to understand the scaffold board was from Austria - notice it is a finished product and not simply planks of wood. This one has Austrian sheets https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat/e1f7c8f61

 

Other uses amongst these 68 https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat

 

Paul

The scaffolding board photographed at Dallam had originated in Luxembourg but other originating point were available.

The OP might also find my short article 'Cargowaggon's versatile flats',  which appeared in Rail Express February 2018, of interest.

I think the yoghurt was loaded in Bartholomews Depot at Portfield on the outskirts of Chichester, they also used to receive the odd ferrywagon loaded with fertiliser (from Norsk Hydro?).

Yes, and also from Ince & Elton.  From memory the yoghurt went to Young's at Glengarnock, one of the most under utilized private terminals I can think of, on a par with the Cory McGregor place at Warrington Dallam.

I don't know whether it is possible to get a mobile signal in Hellifield but I have found it useful to write the RTT S&C timetable down on a scrap of paper before venturing out, there aren't many trains and there are longish gaps in between.

Mobile signal and excellent fish and chips all to be had in Hellifield !

Thanks chaps.   I will hopefully post pictures taken from those very spots.

 

Bill

Is this the last flow of fuel between a refinery and a railway fuelling point, or do any others still exist?

Neville Hill still supplied on a Wednesday but in bogie tank wagons.

 

Simon,

 

Thank you for your comments back. ........

 

Train formations

 

What I would find really helpful is more information on Speedlink formations. Looking at pictures some trains seemed to have quite changed over time.  I am not sure that you covered Network Coal formations which would be helpful.

 

Hope this all helps.

 

Best Wishes

 

David

 

As the author of the Rail Express guide to Network Coal trains I can direct you to that article which you will find, complete with formations, in the July 2008 issue.

The government proposal does not outlaw IC engines, range extender arrangements such as PHEVs will still be allowed. A 300 mile+ range is already practical from pure batteries and it is going up. The recharge times are coming down. Energy is increasingly moving away from large centralised generation towards distributed power and more localised distribution. I think that very soon most of us will become "prosumers". I really don't see the high profile recently announced target as being particularly ambitious and see no real technical arguments against it.

While there may be no technical arguments against it the ambition to switch entirely from oil to electric vehicles is probably a complete nonsense.  It would appear to fall down when one considers the impracticality of charging electric vehicles, both in terms of the time taken to do so and the availability of charging points.

Recharging times may come down but not until they are reduced to the equivalent of a petrol/diesel stop can I envisage the electric car being a practical proposition for the many.

 

I have seen MTVs mentioned in relation to shipments out of Oakamoor. Any ideas on when they began to be used and where they were destined for?

MTV's carried sand from Oakamoor to the CWS Glassworks in Wigan

Hi

 

Does anyone know what the numbers were for the two BOC barrier wagons? 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/8096483790/in/photolist-cBcirb-cGzqsA-cFez87-dkzgxR-dksAy7-cJsUxG-cB9KGL-cJsEos-cBbitC-cBcoHE-cGzmnC-cBbbdw-cBcmiN-cEJmJs-cFetxA-cBbf3s-cB9xCC-cJsXxU-cBarLj-cFUSLm-cDCF7y-bFLsxM-cB9oiu-cFeBFj-cFVoJJ-cBbW5G-cBca3W-cBaDTY-cJswb1-7mZqLv-cHf1mu-cEdF19-cBbHn1-cEdkzb-cBc2J5-cGzADJ-cB92yj-cJsNsq-cFeg8E-cFee1A-cJtaTs-cDCCjA-cFej3G-cBa1Py-cFUPE5-cJsRBb-cBavij-cBacTm-cDCVuY-cB9ABj/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/8097785643/in/photolist-cBcirb-cGzqsA-cFez87-dkzgxR-dksAy7-cJsUxG-cB9KGL-cJsEos-cBbitC-cBcoHE-cGzmnC-cBbbdw-cBcmiN-cEJmJs-cFetxA-cBbf3s-cB9xCC-cJsXxU-cBarLj-cFUSLm-cDCF7y-bFLsxM-cB9oiu-cFeBFj-cFVoJJ-cBbW5G-cBca3W-cBaDTY-cJswb1-7mZqLv-cHf1mu-cEdF19-cBbHn1-cEdkzb-cBc2J5-cGzADJ-cB92yj-cJsNsq-cFeg8E-cFee1A-cJtaTs-cDCCjA-cFej3G-cBa1Py-cFUPE5-cJsRBb-cBavij-cBacTm-cDCVuY-cB9ABj

 

The description of the image above gives it as a VAA van marked as Van AB

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Air-braked vans numbers 200291-93 were painted in BOC livery in October 1970 while 200314/15 were similarly painted in July 1971.

Although not mentioning the vans an informative article about the introduction of the BOC bogie tank wagon fleet appeared in the May 1970 issue of 'Modern Railways'.

86005 120584.jpg

 

86005 departs Hardendale Quarry with a train of empty tanks for Runcorn, 12 May 1984. Not sure what the tanks would have conveyed, maybe CO2?

Lovely shot.

The tanks conveyed butane to the quarry where it was used to fire the lime kilns.  This came from Shell's Stanlow refinery which is where the discharged (empty) tanks would have been returning to.

Hi Dave

 

Diesel.......class B fuel owing to its high flash point but is a "clean" product so can be transported in class A tanks without a barrier wagon.

Exactly.  For example the one time regular working from Port Clarence to Weaste was always composed of Class A tanks but the commodities they carried were Derv and kerosene.

Worth bearing in mind that just because its a Class A tank it isn't necessarily loaded with a highly inflammable product.

DR

Thanks for the help Gents! So some of the VAA/VBA's had the Lovat Spring livery - any photo's on the web?

Apologies if my somewhat badly phrased previous post gave the impression that any VAA's or VBA's were repainted in Lovat Spring livery.  As far as I'm aware they weren't, only two or perhaps three of the VGA's used for the traffic were done.  However, also noted in the mineral water traffic in addition to VGA's in plain livery were some that had received other, non related liveries, such as the one that had a large 'Gi' painted on the side and one that was lettered for 'Iggesund Paper Board', as illustrated in my IA book BR Air-braked Wagons in Colour.

There's a picture of one in Rail Express No 165 Feb 2010, but sadly it was taken in 1980, by which time it's not much different to the grey/bauxite/dirt colour that they all seemed to degenerate into..

 

The issue has about 4 pages of drawings, history, and photo's, and mentions their uses beyond cement, covering, salt, slate powder, fly-ash alumina, Fullers Earth, lime, sodium sulphate, and Pulverised coal. There are photo's of several different Cement liveries covering the main producers, Rugby, Tunnel, Ketton, APCM and Blue Circle.

 

If anyone wants a scan PM me and I will run them off.

 

 

Peter

My understanding is that the prior permission of the magazine publisher is required before reproducing or transmitting such material.

In reply to the various questions/points raised by Dava, stovepipe, and woodenhead....

Yes the WTT also includes parcels trains that originated and terminated at Manchester Piccadilly without calling at Mayfield.  The only service that did that was the one I included in the earlier table.

In the WTT Mayfield is listed either immediately above or below Piccadilly dependent upon the direction of travel.  There is no signal reference number.

While not discounting the headshunt theory there is also the possibility (and in my opinion the very strong probability) that the outside platform road at Mayfield was electrified for its full length to accommodate arrivals.

It certainly looks like there was some knitting but not any further than the canopy which would make arrivals difficult but fit in with the comment that electric services arrived into Piccadilly and were shunted back to Mayfield but would allow departures under the wires.

Sorry to labour the point but the Working Timetable shows no trains arriving at Piccadilly and then being shunted back to Mayfield.

For instance in May 1976 4H12, the 01.25 Parcels from Stafford to Manchester Mayfield, called at Stockport from 02.50 to 03.40.  While there it was overtaken by 4H05, the 02.34 Parcels from Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly which arrived at Piccadilly at 03.24 with 4H12 following it down the slow line arriving at Mayfield at 03.39.  The WTT then shows the electric locomotive from 4H12 leaving Mayfield light engine at 04.05 for Longsight.