Kenton

 

I emailed him to point out his error, and he replied with saying he didn't know. Fair enough.

 

I guess we can't all be experts.

 

Always nice to help others out. It can be sometimes clearing out the loft/spare room/garage of junk you know little about.

 

so I will have to find another excuse to have an empty coke train going down the S&C, anybody got any bright ideas?

 

Ian

 

 

It is your time machine, fly it any way you like. If it is possible or even plausible, then leave it up to others to prove you wrong.

 

Just remember, it has got a tender behind.

 

I know that there is a weird, irrational phobia about motorised tenders, but they are no dafter than filling the boiler with an electric motor.

 

K

 

Or even motorising a wagon or a coach, has been done and works just as well even if it does look rather surreal seeing a van going LE around a layout.

 

I'm not so sure that the Kitmaster designs are so good a starting point and with all the effort entailed it might be better, even easier, to design a new kit to today's finer standards. At least that way you can proudly call it your own and have no fear from lawyers-r-us.

 

New kit for the N gauge / 2mm modellers... add some ultra detail with scale furniture

 

 

I think I have just lost my sight, and the 2mm signal box interior just confirms it. The photos are so enlarged the detail looks bigger than reality. The 4mm were struggle enough while being very impressive but 2mm ... incredible detail.

 

These gauges all predate the item on sale and I am not aware of the Americans using buffers and screw couplings, apart from vehicles for export.

 

 

So what? I am not aware of tension lock couplings on British stock either. Yet somehow this remains perfectly acceptable for modellers to use in selling British outline models.

 

It is someone's idea of a model - they are all simply toys, who are we to judge. Don't like it then don't buy it. I won't and you probably won't and my decision will not be based on the couplings because I cannot be a hypocrite by purchasing a loco from Hornby et al.

I was there a few weeks ago. The scenery doesn't change much it was still quite spectacular. Still quite a lot of snow around and the waterfalls in full flood as it was an unusually warm week. Main objective was further north but most of the peaks were too dangerous due to avalanches. So had some time to spare for Flaam and Bergen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although railway link is tentative bordering on holiday snaps. The railway truly is quite spectacular especially at the higher part where it loops back on itself inside and on the side of the mountain.

 

If you get to Begen the cable car to the top is worth a trip though on this day the weather had turned and it was windy, wet and a little cooler.

 

 

(Note model railway link)

 

Bucket lists are just like kit stashes completing them before you die is about as unlikely. Too many. Not many of mine are railway related though.

 

I suppose the camera date of 2nd January 2035, just after 11pm, possibly gives us a clue to the fantasy.......?  6 kilos of brass ?

  So? photographer forgot to tun off the date setting.

 

I cannot see anything mad either about the item. Clearly states that they are tarnished. 14 sheets (even with some parts missing) could possibly weight 6Kg - we don't know the size of the sheets or their thickness ... or the accuracy of the scales

 

The starting price could be lower but there is nothing really daft about it.

 

I am curious too as I cannot make out the "carriages". A term often used by "dealers" / non-railway modellers to describe everything fro a locomotive to just about anything model railway related.

 

This one just might end up in the "Good buy from ebay" topic

 

Depends on how you define "quality".

 

New designs may be different in their approach - dependant on the designers preferences - but it doesn't always mean better. Some of the most highly regarded kits on the market were designed twenty or so years ago.

 

Arthur's kits are highly regarded. His approach to certain design aspects are different to mine but whether they are "better" will depend on the builder's experience and preferences.

 

Quality is not a term I would use in this particular comparison.

 

For me it is a matter of

1. ease of build (that is a combination of how long it takes me to complete the kit and how much extra work is required to make the parts fit together (a mixture of good instructions/diagrams/prototype information/available references. and design - remembering I'm not a great fan of tabs)

2. availability and that means the complete kit - for example if one kit comes with the right buffers and the other only informs me of where to get them (possibly out of stock)

2. Prototypical correctness - Much can be forgiven but there are limits.

3. price - that ugly word also comes into the equation of quality. I certainly do not expect to pay a higher price just because a kit is "new" There are some manufacturer's around who rightly expect their kits to have a high price ticket but there are also some excellent kits that have relatively cheap prices.

4. materials - well everyone knows my distaste of resin or plastic components in a kit. It doesn't stop me building a kit, but given a choice it is a deciding factor in that judgement of quality, white metal castings vs brass, n/s vs brass it all is in that equation.

 

 

I don't understand why Arthur is producing a J25 kit. London Road Models have one in their range and would have already supplied most of the potential market.

 

Now I haven't built the LRM J25 and I doubt if the market has been exhausted. Though if it has then I guess Arthur is not going to sell many (his risk). If it hasn't then I guess LRM will be making a bigger return on sales than Arthur.

 

So, I do not see that there is much of a problem. Customers get a wider range to choose from and if the quality is so different then one or the other will get the major portion of the sales.

 

 

However, I also agree that there must be other prototypes to work on a whole range from other long past out of production prototypes and lesser quality kits that still seem to fetch silly prices s/h simply because no one can be bothered improving and making them available.

niche of a lesser niche market . doomed from the outset. Unless your the first to market with such a narrow market, it is a very uphill struggle. Its agenda, positioned as more anti-steam rather than simply more "modern" focus probably didn't do it any favours. In world where there is much to choose from and a burgeoning internet, well it is hadly going to be missed by many.

 

What happened? Is the UK modeller so wrapped up in the "we have to have our own solution" and "we do it our way" that the idea has died a painful death from analysis paralysis?

 

It's a bit like a political party - not much use without a critical mass of members. A bit like the LibDems the participants can all fit in a taxi (without their modules) and the few vocal enthusiasts seem to have lost their voices.

 

Although the proof of concept meet up worked well the overall RMWeb support seemed to have gone out of the sails.

 

The only good news is that costs have not risen at all for the UK-produced model. In fact, UK production for many industries is now looking much more viable. I'm hoping that the time I'm spending putting together a UK supply chain will have much more value than originally thought.

 

 

I'm sure the problem is only dependent on the exchange rate at this time as possible trade negotiations are very much smoke and mirrors at this time. As the exchange rate is similarly very unpredictable (may yet go up or down) nothing is certain there either and may only affect purchases at this point in time. So regarding UK manufacturing the only known in the unknowns is exchange rate on current stock and in that regard, as I guess that metals are imported, the impact will be potentially on the UK supply chain as well.

 

On second thoughts, how would that work

when you viewed them from the other side,

 

Grub, Dibble, Cuthbert, Barney McGrew, Pugh, Pugh.

 

... but the Fat Controller may have put it in reverse then

Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.

 

You can get this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Impetus-Hunslet-16-Industrial-saddle-tank-4mm-Etched-brass-kit-/262509367608?hash=item3d1ec71138:g:zFoAAOSwzJ5XeTg5 for £125.00 or make an offer or most likely get 2 1/2 of these  http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/judithedge/kit/374 . Yes they might have a added value because of the name but not that much.

 

 

The first one is a chancer trying to make a fast one based on a name that used to be regarded highly.

 

The second one is a reputable trader who is still regarded very highly. Who continues to sell excellent valued kits at well below the rip off prices asked by most ebay sellers (and often go for prices in excess of the BIN direct from the manufacturer.

 

IIRC you are (or have been) an accountant or involved in financial matters so you must understand that what is done with said profits has a potentially large impact on the hobby as a whole. For example, a show makes £1000 profit which goes into someone's pocket vs a show which makes £1000 profit which goes towards subsidising building a new exhibition layout - the motive is different (as does honesty as Phil said). That isn't to judge one as wrong, but it is only fair that people go into such things with their eyes open (whether exhibitor or punter).

 

ex tax accountant (slight difference) but I'm not investigating how the business/charity/individual handles their tax affairs. The "profit" from the show simply goes out of my pocket in exchange for the entertainment. The value entertainment can vary but that is a personal judgement. From an exhibitor's POV I fully understand that one may wish to have nothing to do with a particular club/charity/business - that is very much a personal decision. I can think of a few in each category I would not have anything to do with. But I make that choice with eyes wide open and perfectly capable of asking any questions to gain answers for that choice.

 

The fact that the "profit" or any part of it goes to subsidising a minority group of modellers or to a business simply does not matter to me. This is even more true if the business is also providing a service to the modellers. I would argue that the existence of the profitable business eg. s/h model trains is providing far more to the well being of me and the modelling community that a club ever is. The visitor to these shows is very unlikely to join the club (and even more unlikely to benefit from input into their next funded layout) where as they may well buy their first train set from the trader.

 

As said I just do not like the tone suggesting dishonesty of an individual or that there is something intrinsically wrong with this individual. I really do not like the undercurrent that seems to imply that clubs are the only people who should organise, take part in and benefit from all shows.

No need to waterboard anyone.

 

 

So when the exhibition manager says he is from "Random Town MRC" we are to conclude what? That they have made that club up?

 

 

I guess I'm stupid or something. But if I was asked to exhibit/demonstrate by someone I didn't already know (and even more so from a club I had never heard of) I would be asking lots of questions of the individual. Just the same as with any transaction. A similar and probably broader set of questions (a civilised form of interrogation) would ensue if the invite came from a club I had never heard of. I would also be asking a wider group of folk, I actually knew (rather than just simply a forum) for supporting judgements.

 

 

All I am saying, repeatedly, is that it's not unreasonable for the organiser of the show to be honest about who they are and not pretend to be something or someone else.

 

I know what you are asking, but you are also implying that this individual is being dishonest. I have seen nothing to that effect. If he is claiming to be a club then ask him how many members he has in that club and make your decision based on the answer. If he says he has 100 club members then perhaps make your views on his honesty based on that.

 

As I have already indicated I have no issue with him making a profit, no problem with his business behind the promotion as I see all club/society/hobby/venue/charity shows making profit. As far as I am concerned there is no difference in motive.

 

But the motivation of some on this topic seems to be to deny the public (that is me) from having a local show organised by an enthusiastic individual. A sort of ganging up by clubs and organisations to say they must be the only show in town.

 

The valve gear was a nightmare and took forever to get running. The white metal crossheads and slide bars refuted to glide and ended up scratch building them. Some other castings where also unusable and again resorted to scratch building them The axle holes did not match the coupling rods and the right and left frame axle holes did not match either.

 

 

Oh dear! I wonder how many of us would have simply given up, how many of these Oakville kits ever made it through the build process. A kit that may have put many off of building another.

 

It is good to see that in the right hands it is possible as the prototype is surely worth the effort. Well done for perseverance.

 

Of course you may be the lucky one and actually get your goods.

 

On the other hand ..... can you afford the time, effort and shear frustration ... and ever the remote risk even Paypal gets fed up with this guy?

 

The point I was making, if you read the quote, is that exhibitors may well be happy to give up time and money to take a layout to a show, if the profits go to a club. They are likely to be less keen if the profits go to a commecial operation. If it's clear what is happening, as it is with magazine run shows, then they can make their minds up. Hence, transparency is desirable.

 

Not missing the point at all.

 

But perhaps not making it clear enough. Exhibitors are not being forced to exhibit. Presumably they do it for the pleasure of entertaining the public; or the the I want to show off my skills; or for the small return on their expenses. We know the last to be very unlikely.

 

Are we seriously believing that they are not adult/competent enough to ask where the proceeds of the exhibition are going? Then make the decision to attend by free choice?

 

So exhibitors are attending with eyes wide open and in full knowledge.

 

As to where that "profit" goes as I said AFAIC it makes no difference if it is a charity, a model railway club, an orphanage, a big public listed company, or the pocket of the individual show manager - it is all the same and I am thankful for the entertainment.

 

Also perhaps I am atypical of the man in the street visitor to shows. But I believe most individuals are intelligent enough to understand the difference between the 5 layouts for £5 show and the 20+ layout 20+ traders (often impersonal and overcrowded show. (which from a beginner's perspective are almost always made up of very large layouts built and exclusively operated to a skill level that is/certain seems beyond my meagre train set.

 

That small venue 5 simple friendly layouts for £5 show with reasonable low priced s/h trade support with no fancy detailing culture shock is very appealing and far more encouraging to the beginner. They may then progress to a bigger show and may even join a club. But joining club is not for everyone, I seriously doubt if even 1% of RMWeb are members of a club or would even consider joining one.

 

No value.

 

It did not explain why the company has totally failed to respond to any customer enquiries of any type for a very long time.

 

It also did not explain why it is still advertising the full product range on the web and seemingly still accepting money while apparently not delivering goods.

 

 

Thanks. Some of us are, as ever, vainly hopeful

 

Very true. But if the show is marketed and booked as "Random Town MRC" then it's not obvious that it's a commerical show unless you know the man concerned. All anyone really wants is transparency.

 

True in this case as with so much in life. But getting it is not a requirement.

 

I just cannot see what all the fuss is about. If this guy puts on a show and exhibitors bring their layouts I cannot see the difference between this and the other shows. I am not a member of a club and therefore have no allegiance to them, this is no different that any other commercial show (I define all club shows as commercial as the club is taking my money in exchange for providing me with entertainment). If that entertainment is good then I'll support it by attending anything else is just petty squabbling IMO.

 

I blame evolution myself....

 

and we can blame Darwin for that (and perhaps the application of democracy) as was it not he who came up with the concept of evolution and natural selection.

 

Doesn't matter; we're all Europeans.

 

 

Even the Russians, apparently ( never quite understood that one )

 

 

DB. Danish Bacon.!

 

Ummmm! BACON

 

 

Irrelevant now, but I bet we'd still lose in that situation!

 

Irrelevant? Did we lose? I thought we were still stuck in with a chance.

 

We even gain the occasional new member as a result.

 

Good to know that some good will emerge from the whole debacle.

 

Our polling station ( can I use that word legitimately here? ) is also in a church hall, though there might be quite a bit of debate about the word 'church' as well as the 'hall' also serves the local community as a coffee shop, library, MUGA, and all sorts of other less useful services - though sadly not model railway club.

 

Yesterdays MRE mag has a couple of potential comments regarding Craftsman Models including one possible explanation.

 

I wonder if they were of any value to the overall discussion, or is that just more speculation?

I agree that a trader should know what they're selling.

 

An established trader in model railways, perhaps. But then can anyone be expected to know everything about everything ever produced, especially when they are probably just selling off job lots and house clearances? There is a big difference between poorly describing something, mistakenly describing something and deliberately attempting to mislead the seller.

 

The same vendor advertises locos being painted by Larry Goddard, but there is no signature.

IMHO this is misleading advertising,

 

perfect example

 

but Ebay do nothing about it.

 

They don't have the resources or the time to intervene (or more likely, simply are unaware of such specifics and a.n.other 3rd party's word is worthless in such disputes) it is down to caveat emptor again.

 

 

 

I bought a loco from another dealer advertised as "professionally built and painted", but the vendor didn't know which professional built it, and it was obviously painted with a professional shovel. The professional also erred in the assembly of the valve gear

 

And just why should the vendor know the name of the "professional" builder? The seller (presumably the same trader) probably did not commission the build. Not every professional signs or stick a brass plate on the outside of the build or engraves their name somewhere. I don't. Not every professional builder paints their builds. I don't. The build usually goes back to the commissioner for them to paint or to have painted. I rarely see the end result and care little of the result once job done. I know of several others with a similar view and you will find that builders and painters are frequently different.

 

 

I have seen some so called locos built by persons who do it for a living or to make a few quid on the side and call themselves professionals

All I can say is that if it was me they had make the model for, they would be taken to the small claims court.

...

but I hate people pretending to be something that they are not.

 

We have had this mud slinging before.

 

The simple fact is that someone who receives payment for work done on commission is a professional and is entitled to call themselves that.

 

Whether you like the end result of that professional build or not only matters if you are the commissioning client and the end result fails to meet the agreed specification with the builder / painter. As you are such an expert you are unlikely to require the services of a professional builder and your specification could well exceed the capabilities of many.

 

It sometimes surprises me just how basic most build requests are. I build kits, simple as that, no frills and nothing added unless it is supplied in the box. A loco, if built motorised (and it might shock you haw many are requested build for showcase with no motor or gearbox) then they leave the WB as a running model.

 

So the valve gear may be wrong (if it was wrong in the kit) but working. However, I guess that it did not come with a history saying if the model was damaged by the owner (or trader).

 

Presumably the photos of the item (including those requested of the seller for the valve gear) indicated the in-correctness or damage? So you were fully aware of the purchase before bidding? Presumably if it had been of superior build and condition it would have attracted higher bids and you wouldn't have won such a bargain.