Kev D

Wonderful! I imagine it was gas lit as well? 

Could you let me know where I can get a copy or see a copy  of the article about the Wye Valley with the shot of

the 4 wheelers 

Did they look like this  Dean 4 wheeler at Didcot ?

Could you tell me what BRJ stands for ?

Thank you 

Thank you for the very detailed and helpful responses .

I am new to this so I hope you don’t mind me asking if all the responses so far have referred to Autotrailers and railcars. 
Have we any information about other coaching stock from the the 1930s onwards? Or was the line only worked with the autotrailers/ railcars . Before that date what would have been the coaching stock involved please.

I attach one photo of a metro class from 1912 . Is the attached coach a ‘Toplight’ and we’re the exterior handles made of brass

Thank you

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

1421 was  during the late 40s and early 50s the regular Llantrisant loco on the Cowbridge branch, about as bucolic as South Wales ever got, sister 1471 being the regular on the Penygraig, two branches from the same junction that could hardly have been more different in character!  There is a photo of it in John Lewis' 'Great Western Auto Trailers' at Cowbridge during this period in early 1948 livery with the 'BRITISH RAILWAYS'  on the tanks in GW style Egyptian Serif lettering.

 

Photos in this book at Monmouth taken in the early 50s show 64xx and 14xx with diagram A31 trailers, including an undated, credit R H G Simpson W 207 W in unlined carmine 1948 BR livery , (not applied to auto trailers until mid 1950), with the ventilators plated over and hauled by a 57xx, probably an arrival from Pontypool Road.  There is also one of the same trailer in the same livery credit H.C. Casserley, no less, with another trailer in carmine with ventilators painted over rather than plated; this is almost certainly W 147 W, an A24 photographed by him at Troy, also undated. but sometime between mid 1950 and December 1956 when W 207 W was withdrawn.  6417 at Tintern, and this is definitely Tintern not Tiverton from the canopy on the other platform visible in the background, is hauling an A44 intermediate trailer next the loco and what looks like a 'cyclops' A43 behind it, which were introduced originally in South Wales in 1953, rebuilt from Collett compartment stock, and will still probably be in BR unlined carmine livery, though unlined maroon was used from 1956 onwards.  After 1956, some 14xx and 64xx were given fully lined BR green passenger livery, but 6417 hasn't been done yet.  Probably never was, as BR Database has it allox Ebbw Jc 6/58, which pins the date down a little closer, and withdrawn at end of 4/59.

 

I agree that the Thompson brake 3rd means that the 14xx is at Tiverton Jc on a Hemyock working, but am not convinced that it is a photo of 1421; a very close look at the number plate blown up as far as I can suggests that the last digit is leaning towards the edge of the plate, making this loco 1427.  1421 was at Exeter in the early 60s, according to BR Database, by which time IIRC Hemyock had closed to passneger traffic, though I'm happy to be corrected on that.  BR Database gives no allocations for 1427 until the early 60s at Horton Road, which is where '21 also ended it's days.

 

 

 

This shot, credit L & GRP, is from the footbridge at Troy and dated 29/7/32, but as Monmouth Troy is a junction we cannot state that this is a Wye Valley train, though this is probable as the board is off for the Chepstow route.  The loco is a 517 or a Metro and the livery probably 1920s GW for both loco and trailer.  Trailer might be an A31, Newport Division had a few of those, in which case it will have been fairly recently converted from a steam railmotor, though the roof is dirty enough for it to have been in service for a good while.  A Ross on Wye service is standing over awaiting the Chepstow's departure to occupy the platform but the bracket signal obscures it from view and neither stock nor trailer can be identified

 

 

 

Credit E. Wilmhurst, looking east from the tunnel portal, undated though this is probably the 1950s (but the trailer could be in 1942-5 austerity brown, and the date post 1942 to late 40s).  I think the train is probably setting back into the plaform road to form a Ross-on-Wye service following the departure of a Chepstow train; a Ponypool Road would have a headlamp beneath the central cab window of the trailer.  The tail lamp is not in the usual postion for auto working and the train may be running in a 'normal' loco-hauled condition. It is impossible to identify the loco.  The coach next the loco may therefore not be an auto trailer, but if it is it will be a compartment A43 or A44, making this post 1953. 

 

 

Credit Lens of Sutton, undated, northbound auto at Tintern with steel bodied trailers, A27, 28, or 30, in what is almost certainly BR unlined carmine or possibly unlined 1956-9 maroon.  From mid 1948 to 1950, BR Western Region painted auto trailers in the lined carmine and cream 'blood and custard' livery, but the story goes that Mr Riddles, the CME, saw one at Paddington one day and wrote a strongly worded letter to the region demanding an explanation of what his best main line passenger livery was doing on a humble auto trailer.  Coaches were overhauled and repainted roughly every 7 years or so, so this must be be after 1950 at the earliest, but could still be 1959 when the branch closed to passenger traffic.

 

 

This one's dated, 21/6/51, and can be fairly accurately timed, it's the 14.30 Chepstow-Monmouth so this is about quarter to three in the pm, credit W.A.Camwell.  Wouldn't swear to the livery and this railcar is not identified, they were introduced in 1940, and the last of the single cars built in 1941, but not GWR shirtbutton which would show on the cab front; possibly 1945-48 GW chocolate and cream, especially with the very dark roof colour, or even early 1948 BR(W) chocolate and cream, but statistically most likely mid 1948-56 BR carmine and cream.  It is difficult to be certain in the contrasty lighting.

 

Hoping that some of this stuff about dates and liveries is of some use to you, Kev!

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

1421 was  during the late 40s and early 50s the regular Llantrisant loco on the Cowbridge branch, about as bucolic as South Wales ever got, sister 1471 being the regular on the Penygraig, two branches from the same junction that could hardly have been more different in character!  There is a photo of it in John Lewis' 'Great Western Auto Trailers' at Cowbridge during this period in early 1948 livery with the 'BRITISH RAILWAYS'  on the tanks in GW style Egyptian Serif lettering.

 

Photos in this book at Monmouth taken in the early 50s show 64xx and 14xx with diagram A31 trailers, including an undated, credit R H G Simpson W 207 W in unlined carmine 1948 BR livery , (not applied to auto trailers until mid 1950), with the ventilators plated over and hauled by a 57xx, probably an arrival from Pontypool Road.  There is also one of the same trailer in the same livery credit H.C. Casserley, no less, with another trailer in carmine with ventilators painted over rather than plated; this is almost certainly W 147 W, an A24 photographed by him at Troy, also undated. but sometime between mid 1950 and December 1956 when W 207 W was withdrawn.  6417 at Tintern, and this is definitely Tintern not Tiverton from the canopy on the other platform visible in the background, is hauling an A44 intermediate trailer next the loco and what looks like a 'cyclops' A43 behind it, which were introduced originally in South Wales in 1953, rebuilt from Collett compartment stock, and will still probably be in BR unlined carmine livery, though unlined maroon was used from 1956 onwards.  After 1956, some 14xx and 64xx were given fully lined BR green passenger livery, but 6417 hasn't been done yet.  Probably never was, as BR Database has it allox Ebbw Jc 6/58, which pins the date down a little closer, and withdrawn at end of 4/59.

 

I agree that the Thompson brake 3rd means that the 14xx is at Tiverton Jc on a Hemyock working, but am not convinced that it is a photo of 1421; a very close look at the number plate blown up as far as I can suggests that the last digit is leaning towards the edge of the plate, making this loco 1427.  1421 was at Exeter in the early 60s, according to BR Database, by which time IIRC Hemyock had closed to passneger traffic, though I'm happy to be corrected on that.  BR Database gives no allocations for 1427 until the early 60s at Horton Road, which is where '21 also ended it's days.

 

 

 

This shot, credit L & GRP, is from the footbridge at Troy and dated 29/7/32, but as Monmouth Troy is a junction we cannot state that this is a Wye Valley train, though this is probable as the board is off for the Chepstow route.  The loco is a 517 or a Metro and the livery probably 1920s GW for both loco and trailer.  Trailer might be an A31, Newport Division had a few of those, in which case it will have been fairly recently converted from a steam railmotor, though the roof is dirty enough for it to have been in service for a good while.  A Ross on Wye service is standing over awaiting the Chepstow's departure to occupy the platform but the bracket signal obscures it from view and neither stock nor trailer can be identified

 

 

 

Credit E. Wilmhurst, looking east from the tunnel portal, undated though this is probably the 1950s (but the trailer could be in 1942-5 austerity brown, and the date post 1942 to late 40s).  I think the train is probably setting back into the plaform road to form a Ross-on-Wye service following the departure of a Chepstow train; a Ponypool Road would have a headlamp beneath the central cab window of the trailer.  The tail lamp is not in the usual postion for auto working and the train may be running in a 'normal' loco-hauled condition. It is impossible to identify the loco.  The coach next the loco may therefore not be an auto trailer, but if it is it will be a compartment A43 or A44, making this post 1953. 

 

 

Credit Lens of Sutton, undated, northbound auto at Tintern with steel bodied trailers, A27, 28, or 30, in what is almost certainly BR unlined carmine or possibly unlined 1956-9 maroon.  From mid 1948 to 1950, BR Western Region painted auto trailers in the lined carmine and cream 'blood and custard' livery, but the story goes that Mr Riddles, the CME, saw one at Paddington one day and wrote a strongly worded letter to the region demanding an explanation of what his best main line passenger livery was doing on a humble auto trailer.  Coaches were overhauled and repainted roughly every 7 years or so, so this must be be after 1950 at the earliest, but could still be 1959 when the branch closed to passenger traffic.

 

 

This one's dated, 21/6/51, and can be fairly accurately timed, it's the 14.30 Chepstow-Monmouth so this is about quarter to three in the pm, credit W.A.Camwell.  Wouldn't swear to the livery and this railcar is not identified, they were introduced in 1940, and the last of the single cars built in 1941, but not GWR shirtbutton which would show on the cab front; possibly 1945-48 GW chocolate and cream, especially with the very dark roof colour, or even early 1948 BR(W) chocolate and cream, but statistically most likely mid 1948-56 BR carmine and cream.  It is difficult to be certain in the contrasty lighting.

 

Hoping that some of this stuff about dates and liveries is of some use to you, Kev!

Thank you - good detective work about the Thompson brake third ! 

Thank you for Michael  your helpful comments 

I do have the Oakwood Press book . I really should have included the photos on my post . I cannot identify the coaches but I realise that modellers probably can . So I have attached the two main examples hoping they can be identified . 

I also have the guide book you mention which Peter Jones of the Great Western Trust kindly sent to me .

The western route did require a substantial bridge downstream which is shown in the plan under the web site section ‘Investigation  into the change of route ‘. There was also a high viaduct about 150 yards long connecting two tunnels. The conclusion on the web site is that western route was probably more expensive. It also refers to local opposition but does not make such a clear point as you do about company directors being inclined to choose a route with less opposition . I think we may amend the conclusion accordingly .

Many thanks 

Kev 

I hope it is ok to submit this request. I volunteer for a charity, Greenways and cycleroutes, which has recently created a walking and cycle route from partof the WyeValley Railway. One of my tasks with others is to create web pages of the history of the line. This is the latest edition: https://www.wyevalleygreenway.org/history

The next task is to write up an illustrated history of the coaching stock.

Can anyone help or point me in the right direction for say 4/5 examples of passenger train formations from opening 1876 through to closure in 1959. I have information on the diesel railcars and autotrailers which I understand both worked the line from around 1935 to closure. However I cannot find authorative information on the coaching stock which I assume would have been, for example one brake third and a compartment third or just  a brake third. I would like to put together formations from the same era eg two Collett coaches. 

Specific interests include clerestory coaches, gas lit coaches, Mk 1 stock and the earliest examples - perhaps Dean 4 wheeled carriages. In addition I am interested in any coaches operating at the same time as the autotrailers

It would be most helpful if the suggestions can be illustrated by free-to-use images eg from Creative Commons or from models

Many thanks