k-59

Not real sure on that specific locomotive, but the C&NW used smaller steam engines like that in commuter service out of Chicago in addition to the more common branch line assignments.  

One Canada-USA thing that might be an interasting detail for some operation schemes: Canada use to have a law that if a locomotive built outside Canada was inside Canada for more than x hours (Not sure how many it was, 48 maybe?) then the railroad had to pay duties as if it had been imported permanently. I'm unsure if the USA had an equivalent law. The purpose of the law was of course to protect Canadian locomotive  building. 

So locomotives that did make the border crossing had to get back quick! And railroads like the Wabash bought engines from GMD and others to use in Canada. The N&W, which had no F-units before they bought the Wabash, keep the Canadian Fs into the 70s because of the problem of either having to buy new Canadian replacements or having to pay duties on reassigned older engines. 

I'm not sure when the law was lifted. Either by NAFTA or some time earlier. 

There really wasn't much of a used diesel market until at least the mid 60s. Before that the diesels class ones were getting rid of were early designs that had reached the end of their useful lives. Often the locos would be traded in for new units and some parts might be reused. There were some exceptions to this of course. For example the New Haven sold off a number of their 44 tonners with one ending up in Trinidad of all places. 

There was a bit of a used steam engine market in the 40s and 50s but I don't think many short lines partook. But the Interstate Railroad did buy 2-8-8-2, 2-8-0, and 2-8-2s in this period as one example. http://www.interstaterailroad.net/id66.html

The Interstate then dieselized completely with RS-3s from ALCO. There were good number of short lines who dieselized without EMDs, partly because EMD was over booked with orders from bigger railroads. But also a fair number who were able to secure EMDs like the Aberdeen & Rockfish. Some lines went with one or two types in one order as the Interstate did, or a number of smaller orders and different types like the Aberdeen & Rockfish  (Which even had a cab unit, a rarity for a short line.) Some even had locos from different builders like the MN&S which started with a few FM switchers, then finished dieselizeing with Baldwins including the very rare center cab. They then got EMDs for second generation power. 

I'll put this here, rather than on my layout thread as I think it's a useful US newbie question.

 

Shortlines - do they tend to predominantly use second hand motive power from one manufacturer?

 

i.e  Does one shortline have mostly Alcos, whereas another will have mostly EMD for example?

 

And the second question is:

If the use EMDs, do they lean towards a particular variant? GP9, GP15 etc?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Most short lines and regionals are one builder railroads and most of the time that builder is EMD. EMD's have always been more sought after in the used market. A non EMD short line generally also sticks to one builder which they have the experiences to maintain.

Two exceptions come to mind are: 1) railroads that were non-EMD railroads (often ALCO strongholds) and no longer can meet their needs with just the other builder and they give in and get some EMDs. And end up, for at least a few years, running the two side by side. 2) Recently GE dash 8s have come on to the used market and have proven more popular than previous GEs with short lines. For example Pan Am just got a bunch of old CSX dash 8s after being an almost exclusive EMD railroad for a number of years.

Great video!

For anyone who want to give it a go in N-scale, there is a 3d print available on shapeways of the light weight ex-C&LE car. 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/6QTJD5Y28/160-1002-liberty-bell-limited-lvt-1000-series?optionId=61206711&li=user-wishlist

The slogan was adopted right around the time of the SP merger. It took on a hillarious irony since the Union Pacific was ground to near total halt from the gridlock and confusion the merger caused.   

When you read some of the comments from senior Alco and Baldwin management clinging onto delusions that steam had a long term future as late as the mid 40's it is quite sad in some ways. In the late 30's they genuinely believed that evolutionary advances such as roller bearings, improved metallurgy and increasing superheat etc would keep the steam engine competitive against diesels. It seems laughable today but these were not idiots and a lot of their belief seemed to originate in the much lower initial purchase cost of steam locomotives and the fact that they could generate much higher horse power. They didn't really appreciate the significance of diesel electric locomotive tractive effort and the fact you could run them in multiple easily without the complications of multiple steam loco operation.

 

The great strength of Alco, Baldwin and Lima was their capability to produce bespoke designs in very small numbers in response to unique customer requirements, and to do it pretty quickly and profitably. Using a tool kit of standardised components they could offer 1000's of possible permutations. They seem to have thought that it would work in a similar way for diesel locomotives but at that stage in the evolutionary development of diesel locomotives the economics only really stacked up if designs were series produced in large numbers based on standard designs. Somewhat ironically the market has pretty much returned to the old approach as manufacturers use a basic platform and tool kit to offer a huge number of possible packages to suit particular needs whilst leveraging streamlined manufacturing efficiencies.

 

Something else EMD did (which GM really helped with after they bought EMC) was innovative financing. They realised that operators needed access to financing and were able to provide it. Of course the old steam builder used financing products but not as innovatively as EMD.

One of the big economies of diesels is there are much less labor intensive to maintain. Even the most modern steam engine would eventually need to have its boiler cleaned for example. This wasn't as much of a problem with pre-war wage levels but after the war saving labor was a chief concern.  

I was under the impression that WW2 was the making of EMD. They seemed to be allowed to continue diesel loco production and hence development, while the trad steam builders were instructed to continue with what they did best. Influences in the War Production Board may have been significant. The result was that in 1945 EMD had a head start on its rivals, just as steam was becoming less attractive, with a catalogue of proven designs, when the railroads were looking to re-invest.

This is generally true, but the reason EMD was allowed to produce mainline diesels through the war was they were the only company that had a proven design before the War Production Board took control. IIRC all locomotive companies, including EMD, were severely restricted in how much resources they could put into design work during the war. 

I'm not exactly an expert on the South but in general a lot will depend on the era. Before trucks came into use starting in 20s basically all milk traffic would go by trains (either steam roads or many cases interurban.) Trucks were able to compete effectively for the short haul and low destiny hauls, the interurban being first to lose out. But it was only in 20s (or maybe some early examples in the teens?) that the glass lined tank railcar came into use. Certainly, the traffic didn't disappear overnight and many contradicting examples can probably be found for how long it lasted in different places. 

I sometimes wonder at quite why KCS has such a low profile. As you say it doesn't help that many of their operations are south of the border, and from an enthusiast perspective their grey livery wasn't the most inspired look but nevertheless it is a big railway company with a lot of trains.

Personally I do forget about them because they are the only class one which doesn't serve Chicago, so I don't see their locos/trains hardly at all. Tho when a Southern Belle does run through it becomes a bit of a event with the local railfans.

KCS is the class 1 the world seems to forget, they're not that small either.

I think part of it is a lot KCS's network is their subsidiary KCS de Mexico and many observers either don't count Mexico as part of the US rail network or forget it exists completely. Which is unfortunate since there is a lot of rail traffic across the southern border, including automotive and intermodal.  

I have made some revision to the plan, I seem to be settling more on a city theme:

 

 

I'd consider making the cross street at the left an overpass and angling it so it's on a diagonal going right as it goes to the black drop. This would cut off the sight line into the staging/lead track.

Sorry to correct you K-59 but there are paper mills in Florida and California. Let's not forget Canada, they do a lot of this to.

A food factory is also a good idea as you point out.

Check out "Mike switches Batory foods in Chicago" on you tube. This is begging to be made into a layout☺

Hmm I suppose there are. I guess I just associate it more as a New England, Midwest, and yes an oversight on my part not to mention Canada.

That's video is a good example of what I mean about having a layout which could fit anywhere.  You could model that scene exactly, run a Pan Am loco instead of the Chicago Terminal one and I don't think anybody could fairly say you weren't accurately modeling somewhere in the Boston area.

This video came up in watch next section for me:

Personally I rather like the encroachment of condo high rises on a light industrial area.  

The Morton Salt facility is reached via switch back:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.90656,-87.6599901,204m/data=!3m1!1e3 

Might I suggest a paper manufacturing plant?

These are found in various parts of the USA and take a good variety of different cars.

Gonna watch this, I have a good feeling

Paper is a good choice for an industry that would place the railroad in the either the Northeast or upper Midwest. Not many paper mills in Florida or California. 

There are still many places all over which receive a few car loads at a time and via trains which might only switch that industry at a time or maybe a few others. For example there is candy factory near to where I live in Chicago which receives about four covered hoppers every Thursday. It's the only customer left on a disused mainline, which is now basically a two mile long spur.

At a basic level it's perfectly possible to have a layout which a few generic industries and minimal landscaping which could just as easily be in any part of country depending on which locomotives you use. The trick is to find something like an industry or other feature which narrows it down, but there are an abundance of such things out there. 

Funny, I'm not keen on the WC livery because of its association with EWS

Fair, I'd probably have a worst feeling about it if I lived near the MMA. Tho I will say it just works better on a SD45 than a class 66.

CN doesn't need to do heritage units. Some of their units are still running in their fallen flag schemes (IC and BCRail for sure) and a lot are running in older versions of the black and red schemes.

 

 

Adrian

True. I saw a GTW engine still in red and blue the other week.

CN did repaint at least one of their E8s in their traditional Yellow and Green. 

I think part of the issue with either CP or CN doing a NS/UP style heritage program is they would honor American fallen flags which could cause some national pride issues for the Canadian companies. Also it doesn't help Hunter Harrison was involved with both railroads.  

Well the good thing for manufacturers is they can always sell those older locos to those of us who miss the departed lines. More Dash 9s fewer GEVOs!

Personally the Wisconsin Central is the one I miss most. It had one of the best liveries any modern railroad and its roster was mainly SD45s. But CN has also mothballed the ex-WC line nearest to me, although that didn't happen until they bought the EJ&E 8 years after the WC.  

I do think daylight looked a lot better on the PAs than the Es and Fs. 

The "two flags/CP Rail System" logo is my constant reminder that this signified CP's full takeover of the Soo Line.

I'm too young to remember the Soo being independent. I just have fond memories of new AC4400s and smart looking SD40-2 in two flag mixing in with plenty of unrepainted Soo units. 

Two Flag was always my favorite CP scheme. And the last ALCOs were retried right around the time it was introduced IIRC, so not as wild as some schemes. 

Interestingly the southern broad gauge is the reason that Russia still uses 5' gauge railways. It was a southern American engineer who built their railways.

 

I've contemplated modelling Russian gauge in N scale (1:160) but using 2FS track as it's almost right and standard gauge versions of a lot of diesels were used in East Germany.

 

As far as your problems are concerned, I would use EM standards for everything except the gauge. Being consistent with the standards will result in something that is much more reliable than trying to mix and match things.

Now I kinda want to use this to model a meeting of standard and broad gauge trolleys.  

They never pulled that many cars anyway.

Yeah, the prototype only produced 560 HP. And I can't recall reading about trains much longer than 25 cars ever. So if the model can pull 5 I'd call that about right. 

K 59

 

Very nice indeed.

 

I had heard somewhere that the steeple cab loco chassis had limited pulling power, so would be interested to see how you get on when it's up and running.

 

Regards

 

Nick

Wouldn't be surprised considering it is designed much more for the toy train category. Luckily, being from the midwest I have no interest in grades and I don't plan to have a need for it to pull much more than 5 cars. So it shouldn't be a limiting factor for me at least.

So Shapeways was having a free shipping sale and this was enough inducement for me to buy these two fine models from Damin Keenan. And then since I needed a chassis for the steeplecab, I went and ordered it plus a loop of Tomix track including some tram pieces from Japan. Still waiting on the later order, but the prints came:  

Since the photos I've given them a soak to take the wax off. I"m probably going paint the steeplecab orange with a black roof. Still consider options for the RPO but leaning to Pullman green. 

Well for now I'm just planning to set the track up on my work bench, but hopefully soon I'll have some space for a proper micro, and eventually something bigger.   

That map is really beautiful!