Dave777

Can I make a small plea with regards to this thread? The photos are superb, and the added information that people post just increases the value & richness, so would it be possible when adding that information to include the date the picture was posted too? For example... where the hell is C6877? Okay, so in this case I know I'm looking for Mallaig so the southern EMUs can be skipped over, but I've got to check each and every photo over the past few days to try and find the one being referred to - in this case it's two pages back. The above post is far from the only example so it's nothing personal '45059'. So, when adding extra info could we say something like '24 Nov - C6877 at Mallaig junction is crying out to be modelled'. Navigating the thread by date is so much easier than checking the C number under each photo. Thanks!

Has a whole year passed since I built this?! It's not my intention to keep adding to this thread, but at the time there were several valid questions around the longevity of a baseboard made out of cardboard (and not exactly top quality cardboard at that). For the past 12 months the layout has been kept in the roof of my garage: As you can see, it's been kept out of the rain, but the gap across the top of the garage doors shows that the wind, humidity and temperature can all get at it. Actual damage to the layout consists of some of the backscene needing a bit of re-gluing, and the road developing a bit of ridge half way down. Structural integrity of the layout? Well, here we go: Bit of a sag in the middle, but I suspect it would have done that even when it had just been built! No doubt the track is helping to keep the thing ridged, but overall it's lasted well.

What's that little loading bank for do we think? Seems to be for emptying stuff into the minerals, but what might that be on such a small scale? Or just coincidence that they are parked next to it?

Is that an arched plate girder bridge in the background? Don't think I've ever seen one of those before.

Just going from the cab door height, I assume it wasn't possible to actually walk through this and you had to stoop or crawl instead?

Mindblowing. Absolute top drawer modelling.

Great, many thanks for the info. I shall purchase/repaint accordingly.

Great, thanks. Actually, now I look again at my own link I've got Karriers not Scarabs. Can I use those?

I'm exploring info for a mid-70s parcel depot layout in London and was wondering about the likely road vehicles used. I've already purchased a couple of Scarabs in yellow... http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/1751_1_106287841.html ...but I'm now thinking that these are too early (thanks to info contained within this thread). Would vehicles in the 'rail express parcels' livery be a better bet? (eg, http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2312569) Or maybe the National Carriers livery would be more or equally suitable? I don't mind doing my own research on the specific vehicles, it's the livery I could do with some assistance with. Thanks for any help you can give me chaps.

Nice job

I trust there's also a pop-up bullet shield and ejector seat?

Strangely that one marked SUB doesn't actually appear to be in that bad condition (from what we can see). There's certainly worse examples in this thread!

Another hoary old modelling cliché there - figure looking out from rear veranda of Airfix brakevan.

BR blue and rusty minerals - perfect photos for me If they had urban housebacks as well they'd be 10/10. Interesting 'strata' effect with the rust in that second photo, and a very clean brakevan too. And in contrast, look at the state of that leading 31!

The telegraph poles on the side of that warehouse are an interesting feature.

Keep 'em coming

Thanks for posting, very useful. Couple of Qs: 1) I assume these wagons were all in service at the time? (I've weathered a wagon before using a photo only to find out later that the wagon hadn't been used or moved for several years!) 2) What is the symbol on the smaller conflat container that looks like a circle with a cross in it? It's also on the 5 plank wagon a couple of photos below. Thanks again. Edit: actually, just looking at that 5 plank wagon again, what's going on with the left hand end of it?! (it's the very first post btw)

Following several enquires in this thread about the weathering on the minerals wagons, I've put together this little demo of the two techniques I used. Before we start, I must just say that I've been completely taken aback by the amount of interest that this thread has generated. I hoped it might gather a few followers, but no way did I anticipate all this fuss! I've found it all a little bewildering if I'm honest. Was it the 'one post a day' format, the challenge of the £100 limit, or the finished layout... or all three? Or something else? Who knows. But whatever it is, just a big thank you for all the comments! Inexplicable and totally unexpected. I never thought there would be a Part 10, so since we're into the realms of 'DVD extras', here's a couple of photos to lead us in. One aspect of this project that I apply to all my layouts is to only model what you can see (or which you're likely to photograph). For plank layouts, where you're only viewing the action from one side, there's no need to model the other sides of bridge walls for example... ...and on this layout, I didn't even paint the other side of the rolling stock But as it happens, that provides us with the perfect blank canvas on which to carry out Part 10. Part 10 - Basic weathering For the first wagon I've used a mixture of two of our eBay Humbrol enamels. I've gone with a more grey mix on this side as opposed to the original repaints which leant more towards the brown. No real attempt to mix them up, just a rough mix and application onto the wagon using a paintbrush. Once it's dry, you need to scrape away this layer of enamel to reveal the original grey underneath (in this case, our original coat of primer). I use this metal spatula, but a flat headed screwdriver will work equally as well. It will need a fair amount of work to take the enamel off, but eventually you'll be left with the effect shown here. This is, I confess, a pretty extreme way to weather wagons. For this project I didn't have to worry too much about abusing the wagons since they were so inexpensive, and you can see in the close up with the spatula that in a couple of places I've accidently scratched down through the primer underneath (personally I think it just adds to the overall battered look, but others may not agree). Applying this sort of approach to your £6 or £7 Bachmann or Farish mineral may be seen as a bit risky, but people did enquire about the techniques I had used and... well... that's what I did But what about something 'softer', something that doesn't involve scraping away and possibly damaging a lovely RTR, factory-applied livery? Watercolours are a gentle way of weathering many things on a layout, including ballast and buildings. Again I'm using the exact same technique that was shown in Part 6 of this thread where we tackled the rolling stock. Burnt Umber is my colour of choice here because I could only afford a single one as part of the £100, and it's a decent all round choice for dirt and rust. Just a reminder that the £1.70 I quoted won't net you the 21ml tube shown here - that's nearer £3. As it happens, my £1.70 for a 14ml tube in Part 6 of the thread was almost certainly an error as that will only get you an 8ml tube I believe (I think I got confused with my tube sizes). Either way, it doesn't matter - 8ml is more than enough as you really do only use a tiny amount each time. My 21ml tube has lasted me 3 years so far and it must still be 90% full or thereabouts. In much the same way as the enamel technique, we're just painting the neat stuff on in a fairly haphazard way (although unlike the enamels there's no need to cover the whole of each panel on the wagon). Using the same paintbrush and some water (I use a £1 Ikea ashtray as my waterholder which, as a non-smoker, I bought for this very purpose, but a plastic cup will do equally as well), wet the paintbrush and 'paint' over the wagon sides to move the watercolour around. As you can see from this closeup, you really do just splash the water on fairly liberally. Leave it to dry/evaporate (which depending on the room temperature can be 15 minutes or several hours), and you'll be left with a reasonable impression of all over dirt and/or rust. To further the effect, once it's dry you can then apply some more water onto the wagon sides and then dot or stipple some watercolour from the tube. You can see at top right of the wagon that it's pretty wet. Again leave to dry and you'll have something nearer to rust patches. Note also how it runs into the crevices (and how I missed a stanchion in the middle). If you want to try a different or additional effect, blob on some neat watercolour onto the dry wagon sides to create some additional marks of darker colour. Watercolours come in a variety of colours - here's some of the ones I use (I've a white colour somewhere as well). Remember that you can mix and match these in just the same way as you can with enamels or acrylics. At the end of the session - if you've been using the same paintbrush - your water will be looking pretty murky (as will your tissue for dabbing on). Ideal for further washes or touching up here and there. And the best bit about using watercolours? If you don't like it, simply wipe it off again. Couple of additional comments. I used seperate techniques on each wagon just as a demonstration, but of course there's nothing to stop you combining enamels and watercolours on the same wagon - that's what I did on the minerals in Post 6. As any good weatherer will tell you, there really isn't one single method suitable for all instances. Always work from photos. It's very easy to fall into the trap of modelling what you think something should look like and not what it actually does. Fortunately when it comes to wagons, there are numerous books that provide suitable photos, but even better (and free), Paul Bartlett's website provides plenty of reference material to work from. I didn't use photos for this exercise, mainly because the wagons themselves are non-prototypical anyway, but my own weathering techniques leapt forward when I started working from photos. It really is a case of just copying what you see - some grey there, some brown there, a darker brown on that bit. It's almost painting by numbers. Finally, I consider myself a long way from being an expert weatherer. There are others who are way better than me at this, so please take a look at their techniques. I do! I just think with watercolours it really is a case of 'anyone can do it', because you're safe in the knowledge that if you get it wrong or you don't like the finished article you can easily remove it... and then try again of course. Thanks again for everyone's kind comments on this thread. Extraordinary

Yeah, that's a pretty fair commment I think. It's a beginner's layout, and the limited operating potential - which could be boosted by some more stock to run - means that inevitably at some point the beginner would want to try a next layout. It's like most first time layouts I suspect - a way to learn techniques, what parts of the hobby appeal the most, an opportunity to learn from mistakes, and to just generally see what the hobby is about. Having said that... if kept dry I suspect the layout would last for ages. How many of us keep stuff for years in cardboard boxes in the loft for example, or the garage or shed? And that's without a coating of PVA and paint to seal them a bit more I mentioned Port Pennan earlier in the thread as an example of a cardboard layout. There's a thread on old RMweb about it here... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21331 ...which having now read again I see actually had a layer of 3mm ply stuck to the bottom to assist in rigidity, so not a wholly cardboard layout as such. On the flipside however, Ken Gibbons has exhibited this layout (albeit locally), and frankly if it will withstand being transported about, erected, put down again, transported and stored several times over then that seems like a fairly decent workout for the concept of a cardboard baseboard. Yes it had ply added, but Ken possibly started from a worse point by using old fruit boxes. My cardboard was practically like new, so I suspect it may well last the course. Ultimately, if the thing is kept dry - which is what most of us do with our layouts, isn't it? - then I don't see any reason why it won't last a good while. I certainly would have loved to have matched the standard of Port Pennan anyway. Top layout.

That had me scurrying back to my own Excel chart - I'm still getting £99.88 here. I've doubled checked what I posted with what I had on the chart, thinking I might have typed it out wrong, but it's still making the same. We need a third checker

Can't see the pics on two different laptops on two different connections. Both running IE8 though, so maybe that's the problem. Certainly sounds good news though

Next project is to finish off Elwood East really (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/7509-elwood-east-late-70s-n-gauge-parcels-engineering-traffic-very-average/). It's nearly there, probably only needs a few more hours work on the actual layout, and some weathering of stock. It’s 6 feet long, but now you mention it I don’t think I know what width it is, so I’ll have a measure tonight. I seem to recall it’s 18 inches but the scenic section is only 12 inches wide due to the way the backscene had to be glued, but I’ll check. Excellent idea. No idea how I’d match up the blue using my paper decals method though?! That really was one cost saving that was very borderline for credibility...

Thanks everyone for all your comments I couldn't estimate the total build time as I didn't really keep track of it I'm afraid, but the layout was built over about an 8 week period. I kept banging on about lack of time - it was the imminent arrival of a baby that kept the pressure up, I had to get the thing finished before he popped into the world. The layout was completed at the beginning of August, but with new baby around I haven't had much time available and it was only last week that I had chance to wade through all the photos to pick out the required ones, resize, crop, etc, etc. You're right to point out a potential 'false economy' John - a poor baseboard isn't a good start to a reliable layout. The layout has been stored out in the garage for 3 months (during the lovely hot 'summer' we've been having...) and there's no obvious signs of deterioration yet. Good quality cardboard boxes are a must, I think - the ones I nabbed were really sturdy ones for computer peripheral delivery. The fiddleyard sagging is due to two things - as I mentioned in the thread, the scenic section has the backscene to provide some additional strength, but it's also that there's a fold in the cardboard at the point I had to strengthen, so it was a weak spot to begin with (you can see it in the photo). The scenic section also benefits from a liberal coating of diluted PVA too from the ballast and scenery of course It's really light though - I'm pretty puny but I can twirl it around with one hand. Blimey, don't know about that. I couldn't do hours operating it, that's for sure - there's only so much you can do with 5 wagons! I'd need to do something about point operation as well since it's all manual at present, so it's hand of God on a whole new level.

9 - Gallery, final thoughts… and the total cost ‘reveal’ So, 9 days later, here’s a look around the completed layout. Not sure if these are in any kind of logical order, but let's take a look at it 'in action'. Here's the fiddleyard with all stock present. As mentioned (somewhere) earlier in the thread, I had to PVA some additional pieces of cardboard in this area as it had started to sag a bit - it's probably the backscene that provides the additional strength on the scenic section. Pristine 25054 arrives with a passenger train. The chap on the platform was placed so as to act as a marker - stop here so that the back of the coach is still under the bridge in order to preserve the illusion that the train is longer. As it happens, another couple of inches forward and the effect is still maintained. One problem with photographing this layout - the fuel depot tends to get in the way of every shot Some general freight operations on the layout. Shunting vans into the factory siding. Running back with the brake van gives the spotter on the bridge something to look at. Another train arrives - accessing the fuel depot. Big scary box thing with weird controls. Rusty minerals sitting in the siding. 25054 posing. Tank wagon awaits the next usage. Busy freight days at Hundred station. Arty views though the fiddleyard exit. Looks like McKellar have some subsidence problems to deal with - I had to insert an extra bit of brick as the backscene wasn't vertical, but it still didn't line up very well Final shots - overview of the scenic section. This shot also reveals the very last piece of modelling I did on the layout - painting the front of the layout with the remains of the grey emulsion left over from the ballast. 'Google Earth'-like view. What’s it like to operate? Being honest, undoubtedly it could do with more stock, and the passenger side really doesn’t add a great deal (its biggest contribution seems to be snarling up the runround loop and blocking access to the factory siding). With freight movements, having one siding on the opposite side of the station to the others provides a handy operating snag, and if the wagons are put in as awkward an order as possible in a train it requires around 20 movements to get everything where it should be, which isn’t bad. It’s not going to keep anyone interested for hours at a time, it’s probably more like a 15 minuter before things start getting repetitive, but it’s not as if any of these things come as a big surprise. From early on we knew it was a small layout with limited operating potential. Could it be done cheaper? Very possibly. Some savings could be found by buying via a local model shop or an exhibition to avoid postage costs, but that needs to be balanced against petrol costs. And I have included some items that you might well expect people to already have, such as paintbrushes, masking tape and wire. It’s also worth considering any emulsions you already have leftover from decorating – a look through my own garage produced a suitable earthy brown and something sky coloured for a backscene. Could it be done better? Undoubtedly it could, simply by having someone with more modelling skill doing it! My Scalescenes warehouse for example is a bit ropey. But if we’re looking for things that I could have improved, if I’d had more time I could have improved the look of the trackwork by spacing out the sleepers more, and also built some more buildings from card such as the shop fronts and warehouses for example (although I had run out of the quality card, so it would have been cereal packet stuff). I would say that pasting the card onto the backscene to even out imperfections in the cardboard was probably a waste of time - various photos throughout this thread show ripples and gaps. It was really difficult to paste them on neatly. One continous roll might have worked better, or just leave them off entirely. The main reason I did it was the avoid the 90' corners, which you can see in the last two photos above I succeeded with... but I introduced various other imperfections instead The biggest area is the rolling stock however. While changing the wagons wholesale for something better would be the obvious improvement, changing the 70s-spec chunky couplings on the current stock would be one quick win, and a detailing job on the Class 25 would also raise the bar. What would I do differently? With the benefit of hindsight, what I should have done was… build a freight only layout. The money spent on the coach could have gone towards some decent minerals, and in a way I wish I’d been more imaginative with my track layout. I wanted to do something reasonably conventional as an ‘introductory’ layout, but if I wanted to build a low cost layout again I’d ditch the passenger side, go freight only, be a bit more imaginative with the trackplan and scenery, and divert a bit more money into the rolling stock side of things. Okay, it’s crunch time. This was called ‘The £100 Project’ and so the big question is did we manage to build a layout for £100? Well anyone totalling everything up through the thread would know the answer by now, but the final cost was… £99.88 Here’s the full list of what was purchased, how much and where from. Hornby Track Pack E - £22.50, model shop Peco Y point - £2.50, model shop PVA glue - £1.50, Wilkinsons Craft knife - £0.64, art supply shop Pack of A4 card sheets - £1.20, art supply shop Light blue emulsion tester pot for backscene - £1, Wilkinsons Large paintbrush - £0.50, Wilkinsons Gaugemaster flexitrack lengths x 2 - £3.30, exhibition Peco fishplates - £1.50, exhibition Wire - £1, exhibition Hacksaw for track cutting - £1.20, Wilkinsons Insulation tape for wiring - £0.25, Wilkinsons Masking tape - £0.50, Homebase Pack of modelling paintbrushes - £1.30, Wilkinsons Bachmann controller - £5, eBay (theoretical) Hornby Class 25 loco - £18, eBay Brown emulsion tester pot for ground - £1, Wilkinsons Sand for ballasting - £1, pet shop Grey emulsion tester pot for ballasting - £1, Wilkinsons Enamel paint x 6 - £3, eBay Lima box van x 2 - £6, model shop Hornby mineral wagon x 2 - £4.40, model shop Hornby TTA tank wagon - £2.20, model shop Hornby brake van – £2.99, eBay Airfix Mk II coach - £6, eBay Grey primer - £3, Wilkinsons Burnt umber watercolour - £1.70, art supply shop Hanging basket liner - £1.49, Homebase Scourers - £0.14, Tesco Drinking straws - £0.18, Tesco Corgi Ford Anglia van - £1.25, exhibition Figures - £1.64, eBay Polystyrene cement - £1, model shop Freebies: Cardboard boxes for baseboard and scenery formers (workplace) Brick sheet and warehouse kit (Scalescenes) Various card for buildings, etc (cereal packet) Earth scatter material (back garden) Okay, so this isn’t the most detailed, highest-quality layout you’ll see on RMWeb. There are some areas where realism has suffered a bit but there are also aspects where it was more the lack of time and not funds that prevented further embellishments. As I mentioned in a previous entry however, much of this is about suggesting what can be done – someone with more time than I had could produce something better. The real aim of this exercise was to simply show that you don't have to spend a fortune to create a layout. What was really interesting to me was the way that lower cost meant more actual modelling. Beyond the track and electrics, practically everything required constructing, modifying or adapting... and that ended up increasing the enjoyment and satisfaction. Is this hobby getting too expensive? Well it certainly doesn’t have to be…

I think it's more that he feels there are others who are far better at the art of weathering than I am - there is a whole section of the forum dedicated to it afterall I can knock up a 'how to' posting though with photos.