Portchullin Tatty

2026 will mark the 50th anniversary of the creation of the Scalefour Society and the 60th anniversary of the inauguration of the P4 standards. As part of its celebrations to mark these milestones, the Society will be running a layout building challenge to culminate at Scaleforum in September 2026. The full rules are outlined in the rules available from the links below but the key criteria for eligible layouts are that they are to be to a scenic footprint of not more than 18.83sqft, built to P4/P87 or equivalent standards and only need the expenses of two people to exhibit it. There are no restrictions on era, locale, form of traction, nature of operation or prototype gauge but the layout must include at least three turnouts. Burntisland, winner of the 18.83 Challenge in 2005 To stimulate interest in P4 modelling and to allow a wide range of possible participants, the challenge will be open to members of the society, non-members and groups alike. Furthermore, there will be no restriction from using the presently available ready to run P4 locos or the newly introduced British Finescale P4 trackwork. Portchullin Winner of the D&E Challenge in 2008 The winners of the challenge will be determined by a public vote to occur as part of Scaleforum 2026. To encourage both experienced entrants and those that have less experience of P4 modelling, there will be a pair of awards; the first for the best layout from any entrant and other for the best layout by any entrant who has not built a layout to P4 standards previously. Each will be awarded a trophy and a prize of £200 It is intended that the development of layouts being constructed as part of this challenge will be shown by the entrants on the society and other forums, plus within the pages of the Scalefour News and other magazines. Humber Dock, 18.83 Challenge The Society have organised a number of successful layout building challenges in the past with many of the entrant layouts subsequently becoming well-known on the exhibition circuit, forums and in hobby magazines. This challenge is intended to continue this to expand the number of exhibitable P4 layouts, promote P4 modelling and provide a stimulus to modellers to produce or finish layouts as well as to have some fun along the way! Birmingham Moor Street, D&E Challenge Persons or groups who are interested in knowing more about this challenge or submitting an entry should either go to www.scalefour.org/jubileechallenge or contact the organiser at jubileechallenge@scalefour.org

This thread is intended to provide a location for questions and answers associated with the rules, timings and procedures associated with the Scalefour Society's Jubilee Layout Challenge. This post will be pinned at the head of the subforum and this initial post will summarise the key questions and answers for ease of reading: Do I have to build a layout to 18.83 square feet in area? No, this is a maximum size so you can make your layout any size you wish upto this so long as you comply with the other rules. Does it matter if I have already started my layout? Layouts that have already been started are eligable so long as they have not previously been exhibited or appeared in the model railway press (NB, a layout that was shown as an "under construction exhibit" would still be eligible so long as it was clearly under construction - if you have any doubt, please contact the challenge organisor). Does the layout need to be to an 18.83mm track gauge? The rules are that the layout needs to be built to P4 standards so that prototypes that were not 4'8 1/2" can be accomodated. Thus, for example, 5'3" Irish standard gauge layouts built to P4 standardds would be admissible. Layouts built to P87 standards are also admissible. EM or finescale OO are not. Is the challenge only open to members of the Scalefour Society? There is no restriction limiting entries to members of the Scalefour Society so non-members are welcome to enter so long as thier layout meets the entry criteria. There is mention of the recently introduced British Finescale Turnout kits, am I obliged to use these? There is no requirement to use these kits but equally if you wish to then your layout would still be eligible. How will the winners be selected? The winners will be selected by way of a public vote to occur simultaneous with the final showing at Scalefourm 2026. If I find that the completion of may entry layout is delayed, will I be afforded an opportunity to bring it to a future Scaleforum? Yes, if for some reason your entry cannot be shown at Scaleforum 2026, we will provide you an opportunity to show it at a later date.

David Markits do (or at least did) produce a P4 axle? I use them and a set of Markit wheels during the chassis builds as the self quartering function takes one of the unknowns away during a build. It means that you only ever need to put the Gibson (or other) wheels on once at the end of the build. Mark

Have you thought about making the tender body as an etch, there is a depression where the coal slope is and I would suggest you need the thinness but also robustness of the brass to make a durable but convincing tender flair?

There are a number of versions of similar reports floating around; the most insightful one I have found is by Which and shows you how the different amounts being quoted are arrived at. You can plug your personal circumstances into this and see how you feel you might live in retirment: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/planning-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-aNmlv7V7sVe9 Updated today, so it is bang up to date. The expectations as to what people feel to be an acceptable living standard in retirement are rising even faster than the cost of the latest toy trains! This does mean that you might well feel the need for more money when you get to retirement than those already there. Any significant problems for me and I have a large collection of D&S kits to sell, they ought to buy another year or two of happy living!

Palantine only do the underframes, not the bogies. For those, in P4, then use either the Bill Bedfords or the Dave Bradwell bogies - or if you are feeling flush Rumney Models. And 30 chassis would be a fairly big job; but you can obviously build chassis so not impossible. Sprung/compensated chassis are not really any more difficult than a fixed one and arguably easier (although in practice people - well I - tend to build in fresh complications rather undoing that statement!) Mark

Are you aware of the Palantine chassis for LMS coaches. Only presently available in 57 or 60 foot lengths, but they are very good. http://www.checksystems.com/palatinemodels/4mmproducts.html http://www.checksystems.com/palatinemodels/files/Download/LMS underframes.pdf If you have bother getting into the website let me know as i know the owner.

Looks very smart Ian. Maybe blacken the wheel rims, they stand out a bit?

Looks good David; you have at least one sale!

Jonathan, is there not a bit of a bow in the sides there; or is it a trick of the camera? Either way, I find that bogie coach sides are prone to bowing if only from finger pressure in picking them up so i introduce a couple of spacers to break up the length. On a full open coach these have to be hidden up high so that they are invisible but on compartment stock you can use the compartment partitions. But this generates another issue as I don't like soldering partitions to the faces of the sides as they become a point for the sides to bend on. My technique, which does not use the Comet floor with the fold up tabs to locate the sides onto is to introduce a stiffener to the sides at the top and bottom of the sides - although this is a self designed kit so they were built into the kit, pictures here will show what I mean. https://highlandmiscellany.com/2017/06/15/dia-51-full-brake-test-build-part-1/ I then file the partitions 1/2mm narrower on each side and tack them to the strenthening stiffiner at the head and base of the sides. Do like the gresleys coaches; I have a few kits in their boxes winking at me.................

The parcels van does look very smart! Solder is effectively white metal and Carrs used to do a blackener for white metal (I think). Not sure if it is still available. The solder will grey off quite a lot as it oxides naturally mind, so maybe just leave it? Plasticard roofs are prone to going banana shaped and they get brittle over the years. Brass is the way to go. Blacken then before painting too, so that if there are some chips/wear it is less apparent? Keep up the good work and thanks for the tips with regard to a touch of white in yellow ink; I am trying to use it to rev up my lining mojo!

Looking forward to Scalefour North in Crewe; only a week to go now. So shopping list in hand, I will be making my way north! Hope to see lots of you there.

Looks good Brian. The Highland goods sheds were notionally to common designs but the reality was a bit different. Yours seems, to me, to be unusual in that it did not have an office within it (and hence no brick chimney) and the windows have either lost their mullions or had the windows changed outright. I think they are also all built on a brick or stone plinths; I think yours has been lost in the midst of time as the ground was built up with muck or fill. I think it is still visible rail side though? Mind you, mine doesn't have a plinth either! On my shed, I found that the ends warped over the top of the railway entrance doors and then broke. I had to introduce some metal bracing to overcome this. Hopefully the same does not befall you!

Well done! Has happened to me a couple of times in the past too!

Have you considered if it is the motor lifting on its mount and then rubbing on part of the boiler/firebox? Sometimes if this happens it adds a twist to the mount of the motor such that it is either noisier or less smooth. Look up torsion resistance mounts, which are bars on the top of the motor that help stop this on the Scalefour Forum.

Good to meet you last week Ian and i am pleased you enjoyed Missenden. I look forward to seeing the Jub come along. i must get to mine!

Yes, it works just as well for longer vehicles but there is a point where a further fixing to the centre becomes desirable. in practise, the best solution is to do them one compartment in from the end as that seems to be the best place to keep all firmly there. I have done it with a 65ft dining car but this had an extruded aluminium roof so distortion was not much of an issue. What was an issue was getting the glue to adhere properly to the aluminium when placed under stress when it is tightened. I made the tongues on this one pretty close to the right dimension and them had a significant contact surface between the top of the tongue and the underside of the aliminium.

As a possible suggestion........ I do my ends as a double layer of etch, laminated together. The inner can have footsteps that fold down and poke through the holes in the outer. I do this as i find that the half etching on the flat ends vulnerable to getting bumped and once you have a kink in the etch, you will never get it out. it is less of a problem with the sides due to the fold over top/bottom plus in this case you abve what appears to be three layer panelling.

I find the real advantage of brass or similar roofs is that you can secure them down with nuts/bolts. I do this with tongues, either in the brake compartments or at the ends of the vehical. These run down the floor but are left about a millimeter too short so that when the bolt is inserted, it pulls the roof tight onto the ends with out any visible faultlines. Once you have access through the roof, it is easy (easier) to complete and populate the interior. It is also easier to paint when they can be seperated. You do, however, have to put a piece of rod along the top of the carriage side to stop it flopping around. Some pictures here: https://highlandmiscellany.com/2018/10/27/midland-six-wheeled-full-brakes-part-1/

Oh, I recognise that!!! Fair few of my hours have gone into it. Very keen to see how the layout develops. I'll let you explain what the layout is of unless you want me to spill the beans....... Mark

I can't take credit for this, it was painted/lined by Warren Heywood. And if you really want to get salivating, have a look at his website: http://www.modelrailwaypainting.co.uk/

My preference for roofs is to make them from metal sheet and to secure them to the body with screws. These are either secured to tongues that come down from the roof to the floor level or you can make long screws like the good old Hornby stuff from the 1970s or, if you do not need a floor (for full brakes) then you can come up with an arrangement at the top of the sides. On the basis that pictures are worth a thousand words, take a look at my blog: https://highlandmiscellany.com/2018/10/27/midland-six-wheeled-full-brakes-part-1/ https://highlandmiscellany.com/2020/12/31/what-did-you-during-the-war-grandad/

John, Just to say Expo was the first time I had seen South Pelaw and I have to say it is very impressive and worthy winners of the show prize. Well done to the team!

Find David Lane (David Big Cheeseplant on both RMweb and Scalefour Society Forum). He may well be able to print some for you as he has constructed a program that can generate all wheel types. They come out 3D printed and you will need to get a tyre from Alan Gibson.

Yes it is thin acrylic sheet. And yes, once the artwork is set up the marginal cost is quite low. Mark