Skinnylinny

44 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Might that also benefit from a few strategic bits of brass rod to strengthen things? Perhaps a bit of wire down the middle of each lever?

Unfortunately the levers are too thin to fit brass rod down the middle of them. I did consider getting them cast or machined in metal but that worked out extremely expensive!
 

16 minutes ago, Henry. said:

What is the best way to print the middle frames?

The middle sections of the frames printed best laid flat on the print bed. The levers were best at particular angles to prevent them delaminating or flexing while printing (see screengrabs in this post). Other bits you'll need include 5mm rod for the lever pivot, 3mm threaded rod and nuts to hold the frame together, 2mm threaded rod and nuts for the microswitch mounts (I used these microswitches from Amazon), M2x5mm screws for the catch handles, and tension springs (I used these from Amazon).

There are two styles of middle quadrant plate - with and without microswitch mounting holes. I found that I could get away with only using the "with" plates every third quadrant plate, with spacers to keep the microswitches aligned with the levers. 

I'll try to get a file that is shareable either later today, or tomorrow. 

Well, what I'll do is I'll sort out a file for the whole lever frame and tray, and hopefully you can see how it works and modify it to make your own?

Hi Henry,

I used Autodesk Fusion 360 to design the frame and interlocking. I'm the first to admit that the frame as it stands is a bit delicate (and can be rather picky about how it's supported on the print bed!), but I would be happy to share the Fusion 360 files if that's software you can work with? I can also list the other bits you'd need.

Unfortunately, you'd need to design your own locking tray, as obviously the locking on my layout won't work for yours!

...oops, I meant to include this render. From the left: LB&SCR Stroudley D53 horsebox (1871), SER D1106 horsebox (1899), LSWR 16' horsebox (1896).

Well, while Gary is printing out signals for me, I have finally got around to finishing off the SER-designed horsebox, ready for its test print. Thus I now have three horseboxes - one each from LSWR, LB&SCR and SECR. I perhaps ought to consider an LCDR one, too. However, I'd like to try to do a carriage truck for each of the companies. I've already done the LSWR one, after all...

If all goes well, these ought to become available through Oak Hill Works at some point.

You've given us times, but what sort of dates do you have in mind? Certainly this coming weekend there's a model railway exhibition in Edinburgh (though I'm biased, as I'm part of the organising committee!). The National Museum of Scotland is also a pleasant (free!) way to while away a few hours in Edinburgh. Harburn Hobbies is a lovely model shop and I almost always try to drop in when I'm in Edinburgh.

I absolutely agree that the Riverside Museum in Glasgow is well worth a visit (and also free), especially if you can combine that with a ride on the Subway (sadly not free) to get there. 

For Inverness, I hear good things about Leakey's Bookshop - a huge second-hand bookshop about 4 minutes from the station. They're open until 5:30pm (except on Sundays) so plenty of time to grab a quick bite to eat at the Victorian Market opposite the station, between bookshop kicking-out time and your train departure.

12 hours ago, cornamuse said:

ooooooooh another couple of organists… if you are ever near Durham, my office is a nice 3 manual viscount… you are very welcome to come and make the church rattle 

That's very kind, thank you! I am extremely rusty at the moment, but slowly getting back some of the muscle memory, albeit only on one manual at the moment. Rummaging through the New English Hymnal and some books of Pachelbel organworks (not, I hasten to add, the Canon in D, for which I gained a bit of a dislike after being presented with the 'cello part while playing in a flute ensemble), I've been enjoying getting back into the swing of things.
 

8 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Might it be a bit stronger if you used brass for the arm and spectacle as well? I can imagine those being a bit fragile in resin?

For the arm, yes, I could use brass, specifically the MSE Saxby & Farmer arm etches. Unfortunately, they don't produce the specific type of spectacle that I am after for these signals, nor do EB Models. I looked at using the spectacles from NER slotted-post signals, but they're quite a different shape - these S&F ones have a very distinctive, almost egg-like shape to the glasses. Fortunately, I think that once glued to a piece of acetate, the resin spectacles should be strong enough - they're not taking any mechanical strain, as the operating pushrod is attached to the signal arm, and the signal lamp should reduce the chance of them being caught and bent.

On a different note! This weekend coming is my club's first exhibition in many years, being held at George Watson's College in Edinburgh. With 13 layouts and 6 traders, we're hopeful it'll be a success, and if anyone finds themself in the area, it would be lovely to see you. We'll also have a table for the Bo'ness Gauge 'O' Group who are fundraising after the recent arson attack on their clubroom/layout display at the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway.

https://elmrc.org.uk/elmrc-exhibition/

Well, I decided to poke the idea of printed signals, although I'm looking at the possibility of including a slot through the post for a brass rod to keep everything straight and hopefully strengthen things! Gary ( @BlueLightning ) has very kindly resin printed a few test parts for me, and they appear to be functional at least - this is a subsidiary arm, post and spectacle, put together after printing and priming:

I have made the post a little too chunky, and need to slightly change the spectacle shape, but it's definitely coming along nicely, and looks like a reasonable proof of concept. 

The bracket signal has been redesigned based on the above, and new files have been sent to Gary for more proof-of-concept prints. If this works, I shall try for a more final design, although I'll still be using brass parts for safety rails and ladders.

You appear to be applying your experience of 40 to 55 years ago to the present day though. The world has changed vastly over the last 30 years or less - certainly it is unrecognisable now compared to even the 1990s or early 2000s. 

I don't believe it is the fault of people who find that benefits could offer a higher income than work - it sounds to me rather like you were being exploited if your employer was offering you less than you could have had as income through the benefits system! Unfortunately there's rather too much of that these days in my opinions. Employers wanting to employ people on zero-hours contracts, for pittance rates, with no guaranteed income, but wanting them to be infinitely flexible in when they might be called in (thus preventing them getting other jobs). 

The benefits system today is absolutely set up on the basis that they want you off benefits as quickly as possible and the DWP will find any excuse they can to stop paying. I have a friend who had their Jobseekers' Allowance (as was at the time) sanctioned for being 5 minutes late to a Job Centre appointment due to a broken down bus (despite the fact their work coach was running behind schedule and didn't get to them for 20 minutes after their arrival).

However, you also appear to have made up your mind on this matter and not be willing to listen to any other views, so I am not going to waste my energy trying to change your opinion. 

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Most meals appeared to be delivered fastfood takeaways, and mysterious deliveries were furtively unloaded in the hours of darkness.

So you were spying on your neighbours, watching them preparing food through their kitchen windows? And able to tell the difference between a shopping delivery and takeout delivery (despite both being available from the same courier firms)? 

What makes any delivery "mysterious"? Plenty of modellers jokingly (or not-so-jokingly) comment about sneaking new models into the house, for example.

For what it's worth, claiming child benefit for additional children doesn't raise the benefit cap, which still applies, limiting income for a couple with children to £1835 a month outside London. Hardly enough to pay rent and bills on a multi-bedroom house, along with takeout delivery for "most meals" and "mysterious deliveries", whatever they may be.

There's also the question of where young people who live in rural areas are supposed to volunteer... and how they're supposed to get there! 

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

The UK is not short of labour - it is short of people who want to labour! Over-generous, long-term social benefit payments have bred a sector of society with no incentive to get off their a*ses!

As a disabled person who still works as much as they can (16 hours a week), and can barely pay the rent and bills even with the help of Universal Credit/Housing Benefit, I'd love to learn more about these long-term social benefit payments. (To clarify, this is not a complaint against my employer, who pays me a very reasonable hourly rate!)

For under-35s, Housing Benefit doesn't cover enough to live alone, being intentionally set at a level to allow flat-sharing but not living alone. I have been rejected from receiving PIP (the current system of disability benefits) because I can (although not reliably, by the admission of the Department for Work and Pensions) sometimes walk to the nearest bus stop and supermarket, and I can work part-time (from home, often from my bed, and with *very* flexible hours.) 

My rent is about to rise from £675/month to £750/month. The price of my weekly shop has nearly doubled in the last couple of years, while minimum wage has barely risen. Often younger people who complain about this are told "Just get a better job", without considering that someone else will then take that job and not be paid enough to live on. 

2 minutes ago, MarcD said:

I managed to loose this thread found it again. 

If people haven't noticed we have changed the business name in order to better reflect the focus of the product range. 

If you haven't visited the online shop check out pregropingrailways.com

Products are now available in all scales from 2mm up to G3.

 

Marc Dobson

Pre-Grouping Railways 

Just to let you know, you're missing a letter "u" in your link:

https://pregroupingrailways.com/

16 minutes ago, billbedford said:

If those are dates printed on the bases, they would seem to be a bit anachronistic. 

I would have thought product numbers, with the "-076" suffix indicating 1:76 scale? Would certainly make life easier for identifying figures when (I imagine) Modelu print several at the same time.

The biggest tip I would offer for removing supports from these figures is to put them in hand-hot water (hot enough to do washing-up in, but not enough to scald yourself!) for a few minutes. This usually makes everything a little bit more flexible and less brittle, and makes snipping off the tips of the supports a little less fraught! In some instances, the supports almost remove themselves with a gentle brush of the fingertip against the pointed tip of the support. 

2 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

Sign me up already!! There happens to be one as well at the SVR, but it's in very poor condition.

 

That would appear to be one of the earlier-built ones as mentioned on the Kernow website:
 

Quote

The first versions built from 1905 had brake gear on one side only and ‘J’ / ‘hockey stick’ diagonal framing. They were soon fitted with ‘Freighter’ style brakes on each side with a single vee Hanger. From 1912 the diagonal strapping changed to be straight at the bottom end.

I assume by 'J'/'hocket stick' diagonal framing they're referring to the side knee washer plates. 

39 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Excellent job, and I do like the wood finish. 

 

You'll have to decide whether you are working the instrument to your fiddle yard operator who uses an identical one, or to a simulator of some sort (or possibly both options).  One way of modelling bells I've usd that isn't too loud is to take the bell from an old fashioned GPO telephone and modify that to single-stroke working.

 

Your wiring of the instrument is unlikely to justify following full size practice, as that includes complexity such as minimising the number of telegraph line wires between signalboxes and a latching design for safety so that the instrument keeps its last indication in the event that line wires come down in a storm (generally one wire with earth return on this style with miniature signal arms), and separate power supplies at each end.  I've used non-protoypical circuitry for simplicity using home made miniature 3-position instruments, as did Tri-ang with their short-lived RT268 block instrument.

 

 

One thing you'll have to decide with this two-position style of instrument is how to represent the "Normal" condition of the line in your block working, the third position of a more modern block when there's no trains about.  There were differences between companies in their rules.  Some instruments had additional aids such as reminder flaps or indicators to reduce the risk of errors (such as in the GER flap instrument, or in the Harpers blocks used in Ireland)  https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co209395/telegraph-block-instrument-great-eastern-railway-telegraph-instrument

The complexity of design could complicate which plungers you pressed to work the bell depending on the state of the block/message you were sending, since this could affect the instrument's indication.

 

Some railways equated Line clear (miniature arm in the off position) to be the Normal position, as logically the line must be clear if it isn't its occupied.  This probably made sense to railwaymen who had been brought up with Time Interval before block working was introduced, when signals had only been at Danger for a short period after train had passed.

 

Other railways equated Train on Line (miniature arm at Danger) with Normal position, as it was seen as safer to regard the line as blocked except when it had been specifically established as clear for the passage of a particular train.  The miniature arm should then show the same indication as the signal outdoors.  I believe the SR inherited both practices at grouping and perpetuated the old procedures in different Divisions of the company.

 

As you're modelling a fictitious company, you've got that choice to make.

Thank you! Unfortunately, that's only a computer render, and I haven't applied the "wood"  finish to the 3D print yet!

For home working (by myself) I expect it'll end up with a simulated signaller up the line (if at all), but for exhibitions, the idea would be to communicate between fiddle yard and layout by bell codes. However! To save the sanity of those around the layout, I intend to use recorded bell beats, with a choice between a small speaker or an earphone (both with volume control).

As to the wiring, I do have a set of the Triang instruments, although they haven't made their way back into the daylight since the house move. I rather fancied having proper coil-operated arms, but trying to get the bits these days is not easy. At the moment, the example print is designed around servos. Not ideal, but good enough for now. I suppose if I did want to go for bells, bicycle bells might be a suitable option, coming in a variety of shapes, tones, and materials.

I have to admit, I'd assumed that the instrument would usually be at "danger" unless the line were explicitly cleared by the signaller in advance. That said, I can see the logic in assuming the line is clear if there's no train on it!

A brief step away from signals... I have had a very empty, nicely-built (not by me!) Roxey LSWR lavatory brake tricomposite sat on a shelf, glaring at me, along with a packet of the Ratio carriage seating strips. My previous attempts at using these were... somewhat abortive, so I spent a few minutes drawing up some rough approximations in CAD. Given these will be inside compartments with small windows, I came to the conclusion that filament printing would suit absolutely fine, so I've drawn up a few different types of seats (first, second and third class, with central or offset lavatory doors). 





I was wondering if they'd be useful to anyone else? I can pop the files on Thingiverse or similar, and they're fairly quick and easy to print. Certainly they saved me a lot of effort!

On 28/04/2024 at 09:36, Stephen Freeman said:

Call me a doubting Thomas but I'd be very careful about giving too much weight to such drawings. I know some never saw the actual light of day even though they might have been patented. An actual photo is really the only evidence of existance.

That's entirely fair - I've seen photographs of ex-SER stations that looked to have the style of signal I have in mind, although they're usually either not sharp enough or scanned at too-low a resolution to be certain. That being said, given the layout is based on a fictitious pre-grouping company's station in a town that didn't exist (even if I can point out where it would be on the map), one could argue that nothing fixed on the layout ever existed!

4 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The diagram is a remarkably good representation of S&F house style - examples here

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/gnr-signal-box-diagram-humberstone-station-diagram-2017nov-0045.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/51790692145/in/album-72157627782450647/

A few minor omissions though ...

• the headshunt point should be blacked in to show its normal position
• name of adjacent box
• list of spare levers
• arrows to show the direction of the Up/Down lines
• company name advertised on the diagram

Thank you - I was aiming to represent the S&F house style of diagram, although I was a bit limited in what I could do in Microsoft Paint! The eventual aim is to trace a printout, then fill in with watercolours. You are quite right that I've missed off the blacking-in of the headshunt point (I'll fix that!), and much of the text. 

I'm trying to give an overall "Saxby & Farmer" feel - the layout has an S&F box, the frame and diagram are S&F, and the block instrument is also based on one in the catalogue.

I think I may have found a drawing that has something closer to what I'm after, albeit with the lamp atop the post! 
This drawing from the HMRS Portfolio of Railway Drawings looks to have the right shape of spectacle. I suppose I could start drawing this up for etching now - somehow I completely missed it in the collection!

41 minutes ago, drduncan said:

I’m sure there was an article on NER slotted post signals with drawings which it said were M&H designs in a late 1970s or early 1980s Model Railways.

 

When I get time I’ll try to dig it out.

 

Duncan 

That's very kind, but I'm looking for S&F designs, rather than M&H - I already have drawings for those!
 

17 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

From the drawings , I would say Wizards fret for S&F arms (S0010) and for the spectacles  the Stevens fret (S0011)

Mick Nicholson did an article on it for the NERA book, which I think also appeared in the model press.

Thank you. For the arms, I am indeed intending to use the Wizard S&F fret, but the Stevens "teardrop" spectacles (number 13 on the etch) look completely wrong to my eyes. I think it's the fact that the lenses in the spectacle in the catalogue look like they make up a continuous egg shape, split down the middle, while the Stevens ones are two distinct teardrop shapes. The square-ended ones (number 10) are closer to what I'm after in terms of lens shapes, but obviously aren't ideal for mounting outside a slotted post, without an arm to attach to the square end!

Hello all,

I'm tiptoeing nervously into this subforum, as I normally spend my time in the Pre-Grouping section. My 00 gauge layout, Linton Town is based on a freelance pre-grouping company, and set in the time period 1900-1910. Signalling-wise, I've already worked out what I need, and where (I hope!), based on the assumption that the small "Great Southern Railway" has contracted Messrs. Saxby & Farmer to provide signalling equipment. The signalling diagram is as follows:



I've already built up a lever frame (3D printed, with mechanical interlocking), based on drawings in the Saxby & Farmer catalogue of 1889, which is connected to microswitches, the eventual aim being to have servos operating points and signals, controlled by a microprocessor. (Yes, I know that 11 and 12 wouldn't likely be connected to the signalbox, but they've been added for the sake of ease of operation of the layout!)



However, the time has now come to actually look at building signals. I was hoping to go for slotted-post signals, however, I'm struggling to find certain components that I'd be after. The difficulty is that I'm not wanting my signals to exactly match (for example) LB&SCR practice, where the spectacles were either mounted further down the post than the arm, or the light colour was changed by rotating lamps. The basic arrangement of arms and posts I'm hoping for is this:



I was hoping for spectacles mounted on the same axle as the arm, ideally of as close as possible a pattern to the ones shown in these drawings from the catalogue: 

As you can see, they're quite distinctive in shape, and rather unlike anything available in the MSE range. I could use the NER spectacles at a push, but they wouldn't look right to me. Does anyone know of anywhere I'd be likely to either find suitable parts for building these signals in 4mm scale, or even where I could get dimensioned drawings to draw up my own for etching?

Many thanks in advance!

Personally, what I do in that situation is create two sketches - one from above and one from the side. I then extrude the side view overlength (over-thickness? So that it extends beyond the furthest in and furthest out points of the lever) as one body.

Next, I extrude the top view downwards through the previous body (again as a new body). I split the first body, using the second body as the splitting tool. Remove un-needed bodies, and you should have a brake lever that bends in multiple directions at once!

I shall just leave this here... 



https://hmrs.org.uk/-abp615--albert-usher--ec3--10t-7-plank-s-e--811--op--f3r-tare--6-2-2--spoked-wheels--ssdbk--photo-no--s-600.html